cheap dvd-a/sacd player (quality?)

[organ]

A few weeks ago I bought a cheap Toshiba DVD player ($100) that broke down after 10 mins. I exchanged it with a better one (Pioneer DV-563A, $200). This one can also play DVD-A and SACD.

My question is: Should I bother with SACD or DVD-A that are going to be played on a cheap player? I wanted to buy an SACD to try out but decided not to.

Maurice

[F1nut]

The only way to tell for sure is for you to try it. IMHO, yes it will be worth at least trying one SACD.

[tonyv1]

Pick up the digipack "Let It Bleed" by The Rolling Stones. It's a hybrid CD/SACD even though it's not labelled on the outside. Check here . They are priced for $13.99 at Best Buy. These remastered discs are amazing!

[organ]

Thanks for the help guys. Tony, I'm not a Rolling Stones fan but I'll keep that in mind incase I run into someone who likes them and is looking for SACD's. Thanks for the reccommendation. I think I'll check out some 2ch classical stuff first.

Maurice

[F1nut]

If you want to check out what SACD is all about and want classical, then pick up a copy of Handel's Music for the Royal Fireworks Water Music on Telarc. Great piece of music and a world class recording, pure DSD.

[AsSiMiLaTeD]

I am very impressed with the SACD quality of the Pioneer. It has issues with some DVD-A discs from what I hear, but have not tried any DVD Audio, only SACD...

It took some tweaking, but I got it sounding beautifully on SACD. I've purchased some Diana Krall, Miles Davis, John Coltrane, Pink Floyd DSOTM, Norah Jones, and Sting in the last couple of weeks. All of them sound awesome, IMP DSOTM is one of the best things put on SACD...

One thing is that the 563 does a PCM conversion thus not using true DSD, but it only does this for bass management purposes and it can be turned off. So if you have maybe the Outlaw ICBM or can do bass management on your 5.1 inputs with your preamp, then you can turn off the bass management 'stuff' in the Pioneer and send out the true DSD signal...I have the menu commands to do this if you want them...

[polkatese]

pm,
I am assuming that you are using the multichannels RCA connections to hook up to preamp. Since mine is a modded 2 channels only, I use the separate 2 channel RCA connection. I assume the PCM conversion only happened with the MC RCA, no? Just curious..

[AsSiMiLaTeD]

Originally posted by polkatese
pm,
I am assuming that you are using the multichannels RCA connections to hook up to preamp. Since mine is a modded 2 channels only, I use the separate 2 channel RCA connection. I assume the PCM conversion only happened with the MC RCA, no? Just curious..

PCM happens with every output. It happens with the 2 ch and 5.1 ch output...but maybe not on yours since its 'modded'

[polkatese]

Thanks, pm...now you got me thinking, I might try hooking mine up with the front connection, and see which one give a better resolution.

[F1nut]

Wow, that's BS! Is it only that player or all Pioneer players or what? I haven't heard of this before.

[organ]

F1,
Thanks man. I'll look for that one next time I go CD shopping. I hope it's there because the 'Audiophile' section with all the SACD and DVD-A at the store is pretty small.

Polkmaniac,
Now that's f#cked up! Can you post the menu command to disable the PCM. It will be hooked up to a H/K AVR 500 that I'm buying from 00p225. I plan to run both mains large anyways to get the full impact. Thanks for the list of SACD's. I've always wanted to try Diana Krall. Her voice is very sexy. Also, I want to hear Norah Jones. She's pretty hyped up in audio forums. Are they both 2ch? I'm not really interested in multichannel music. Do all SACD have a hi-res 2ch track?

Thanks

Maurice

[F1nut]

Maurice,

If you can't find it locally, just about all the online stores will have it. That Norah Jones SACD is fantastic!!!

All SACD's have a 2 channel layer, though not all have a multi-channel layer (no loss there, IMO) and not all have a redbook layer.

[organ]

Thanks F1. I'll probably buy them from amazon.com

Now I'm starting to wonder about DVD playback. Will the player also downsample DTS and DD? I'm not sure if the player have a built in dts and dd decoder. On one of the menus there is a setting for "linear PCM: down sample/down sample off". I assume this is for bringing signals out the digital coax or optical?

What's special about this DSD thing? Does it stand for direct streaming digital or something?

Maurice

[F1nut]

SACD/DSD explained here,
http://www.dsdproaudio.com/html/dsd_sacd_explained.html




and here.

DSD is the new digital recording technology employed by the SACD. A high-density format dependent on the high speed microprocessors and large capacity storage devices being created by the modern high tech boom, DSD takes a new approach to the basic problems of digital music recording. By using a completely different system of encoding, DSD avoids many of the limitations of physics, electronics, and manufacturing technology inherent to the current method of PCM recording used for CDs and other current digital audio applications.

The encoding process uses a single bit (1 or 0) to represent how the music signal (acoustic or electronic waveform) is changing over time, that is, taking its trajectory rather than its absolute value. This process is repeated very rapidly--2.8 million times per second--to get an accurate picture of how the signal is shaped. Such a high sample rate (2.8MHz) allows the system to record frequencies far beyond the scope of human hearing, with a theoretical limit almost 70 times that of CD-quality PCM. Moreover, it eliminates the need for analog components of the A to D converter design which are very difficult to build and can have dramatic effect on the overall audio quality of the device.

PCM systems have a dynamic range and signal resolution fixed by the length of the digital word. The number of bits allocated to each sample (16 bits per sample; 44,100 samples/sec for CD) determines the number of increments of amplitude we can divide the music signal into. DSD systems only consider the change in amplitude from sample to sample (1 bit; 2.8 million samples per second). Thus, they can record the signal in any number of relative steps rather than having to determine which of a fixed number of amplitude values best describes the signal at any given sample point. This higher resolution can lead to a more accurate and musical reproduction of the original sound.

[AsSiMiLaTeD]

Originally posted by organ
Can you post the menu command to disable the PCM.
Maurice

I got these from Pioneer, but they're also floating around on the internet...

Home Menu > Setup Navigator > Audio Out Settings > 5.1ch Audio Out > Not Connected > Digital Audio Out > Not Connected

Home Menu > Initial Settings > Speakers > Audio Output Mode > 2 Channel > Channel Level > Fixed

[AsSiMiLaTeD]

Originally posted by organ
Now I'm starting to wonder about DVD playback. Will the player also downsample DTS and DD?
Maurice

This DSD thing won't have any impact on DVD performance, it's strictly a SACD thing I believe...so it's not related to DVD performance...

[F1nut]

That is correct, DVD-A and SACD are two entirely different formats. DVD-A is a PCM based format (just like redbook CD's) with a maximum of 24/96 in 6 channel and can do (but not often) 24/192 in 2 channel. In either case a form of compression must be used. SACD is a DSD based format with a much higher sampling rate in both 2 or 6 channel with no compression. As far as DTS and DD are concerned they are of much lower quality than either DVD-A or SACD and are heavily compressed. SACD is clearly the better format out of them all.

[disneyjoe7]

Sorry to jump in with a new Question, but what the heck seemed to be related.


Can all SACD disk be played back in 2 channel? Would that use 2 channel analog or be L/R of 5.1 analog output?

[gatemplin]

All SACDs do have at least hi-rez stereo but only through the analog outs. If the disc says hybrid then they will play through the digital out at CD quality. Most DVDAs have 2CH aswell.

[disneyjoe7]

So if a DVDA has a Stereo option then it too would output in Analog? Is this a player option?

The reason I asked is that I picked up Chicago DVDA play this through my DVD player and it will output as DVD digital output. My Onkyo will not play back in 2 channel "Pure Audio" mode, as this is DVD digital. I don't have this problem with the Sony 300 disk changer outputing digital I'm able to listen in "PA" mode on my AVR ok.

Originally posted by gatemplin
All SACDs do have at least hi-rez stereo but only through the analog outs. If the disc says hybrid then they will play through the digital out at CD quality. Most DVDAs have 2CH aswell.

[gatemplin]

For DVDA, if you are listening to hi-rez, you can only use the analog outs. If you use the digital outs you will be getting CD quality, dolby digital or DTS.
Unless your DVD player can decode DVDA then you can only use the digital outs.