Shoot off your ideas on good equipment...

[LittleCar_w/12s]

Ok here's the deal:
My car got broken into, the guy f'ed up my 6x9's from sony(I'm soo glad), I quoted the cop $35 each, I also need a few more things...
so:
when I get done ripping money outta the theif's dum bass in court, I will need some new toys! :D

Looking for reccomendations on:
1: whether I should go with 6x9's with pole mounted components, or go with maybe 6" mids and get a full set of compenents to put into a custom rear deck (which I'll get $$ for cause he f'ed up my old one).

2: reccomendations on the above, after you state your opinion... keep in mind that I do NOT like anything flashy, and I like dark colors (blue, charcoal, black etc):

3: Amp: While i dont get paid by him for my 700w blowing 6 months ago, I could use sugg's on a good (((SQ))) amp for my 2 old DB 12's. They will run 500RMS and 800Max each (rated.. :D).

4: Deck: I'll be charging him for the full replacement cost of the deck ($400)... should I...
a--- fix the deck with parts for little $$ or
b--- Buy the newest version of the deck, which does mp3's too?

Thanks for input guys, esp. Cody, Neo, True, and anyone else I know, but forget names... Here's a chance to bully each other about what you like and hate :D

-Jerry

[LittleCar_w/12s]

Also feel free to offer your own stuff here, even though this is not an auction.

[exalted512]

heres what i would do
id buy a bad ass pair of components for the front
Focal or something like that
get some momo or DB 6.5" coaxials in the back
they have adapters on crutchfield that turn 6x9s into 6.5s or you could just make your own
hifonics amps all around
-Cody

[exalted512]

oo, and as for the deck--mine is a Pioneer Premier DEH-P940 which is an AWESOME deck
one of the best decks around for under a grand
i got mine off of www.electronicscity.com for $550
they have a new model out, im not sure what it is, but the price for the 940 mightve dropped b/c they have a new model
i HIGHLY recommend that deck, youll never regret paying 550 for it and youll never have to upgrade
-Cody

[MacLeod]

This would be my recommendations for a SQ system.

This Alpine is the head unit of choice under $400. It plays everything and has 3 sets of 4 volt preouts.

For a SQ amp in the moderate price range, I like the Alpine V12 series. This one puts out 110 rms and is super clean and accurate. I love these amps.

For the subs its gonna get a little more expensive with the Alpines. The only offering they have in the kilowatt range would be one of these which puts out 500x1 or 1000x2 for $900.

Now for speakers I would say to definitely go with components over oval or coaxial speakers but to also chuck the rear speakers and go with a sweet set of these. I love Focals and think they are the best sounding speakers you can buy. Im not a big fan of "rear fill" speakers. When you have music coming from too many source points it can muddle the detail a bit, but thats just me.

Well thats about it. That is one of my favorite setups for SQ.

Other recommendations for SQ amps would be Xtant, Orion and JL Audio. Any one of these will be super sweet sounding.

Other speaker nods would go to MB Quart, Diamond Audio and JL Audio.

Im sure Ill get ripped to shreds for the JL and MB picks but :p

[LittleCar_w/12s]

I'd like to get yall's opinion on US Amps... Heard a lot about them, but havent had the pleasure of working with/installing one.

I love the RF deck, functionality and all, I think I will keep it or get the new model which is a step from old RF9200 to 9220g, the new one is black or charcoal, and runs mp3 as well as the aux in.

Also.. My front sound stage is currently a set of t4's with pole-mount tweets by RF. The spiders are cracked from pumping maybe a whole of the true rms value of the deck which is like 14w (which will be claimed as 30w in a dealer listing but RF has the REAL values.) So I am dissapointed in the RF for now... their speak. and amp quality has gone out the window lately... so if anyone has a suggestion for a T4 for the from, let me know... they are the odd-sized ones that take 2 screws not 4, and are about 3.3/4" wide. I will just have to regret nixing the $65
RF's in the front I guess.

I would still like rear speakers though (I will be building a special rear deck for them that passes the sub power through without eating the components' suspension), and any suggestions on how to improve the sound stage in the front without becoming too bulky. I also have the option of replacing the 4" speaks in the factory slots as well as adding to the deck. (MORE MORE MORE!!)

-Jerry

[LittleCar_w/12s]

Here's Mine:
http://www.onlinecarstereo.com/CarAu...roductID=11670
Only pic I could find :(

Here's the new rf9220, which i don't really like:
http://search.cardomain.com/cgi-bin/...rd=%2A9220%2A+
I may put my faceplate on the unit if i get it.

Or this panasonic looks sweet:
http://www.onlinecarstereo.com/CarAu...roductID=13863
I'll miss the round vol control :( but it is cirrus ready :)

Or Cody's rec:
http://www.onlinecarstereo.com/CarAu...roductID=11984
or the 9400... what's the diff?
http://www.onlinecarstereo.com/CarAu...roductID=11282
^^^ WOOW! but it'll be pushin the budget....
(does it have RCA aux inputs or can they be purchased??)

Thanks for input so far..
-Jerry

Edit:
All I can tell on those two last one is that color is diff, and i'd pay $50 for the outputs to be 6v not 4v...

[fairlynew]

another nice headunit is Pioneer Premier DEH-960MP

http://www.pioneerelectronics.com/pn...496605,00.html

you can probably find it for around $500

[LittleCar_w/12s]

didnt really like the 960, but the 940 suits my style.

Cody... Give me your personal exp with it... you say it's worth it, compare it to the other models, and they look like dirt... geez, but that eats my budget up... grr decisions decisions.

[exalted512]

i would recommend this unit to ANYONE
it IS one of the best on the market, and 550 is a steal
could you not find it on electronicscity?
theyre authorized dealers of pioneer premier, onlinecarstereo is not
the premier's come with a 2 or 3 yr warranty
thats another difference b/t the 940 and the 9400
for a non-screen deck/it has amazing pictures
it has 4 screen savers: dune buggy, diver, snow skiing, and a space shuttle
amazingly clear
plus it has 6volt pre outs, im not sure if thats RMS or not, but its better than the 4
it has a removable motorized face-plate
you shut the engine off...5 seconds later the face plate comes down and you pull it off, after monday ill try to get some pics up to show you what i mean
ive never had a problem with it
the motorized face plate covers where you put the cd in, thus allowing for a bigger screen plus it keeps dirt out of the cd player part
this thing has so many SQ options its unbelieveable
most pioneer decks come with a bunch of different modes--like dome, theater, studio--it makes it sound like whatever it is you pick
i put it on dome and i **** you not i think im at a concert
its amazing--whenever i play a live cd i put it on the dome option and you can close your eyes and never know you werent at the concert
it has timing delays--
it gives you like 5 different options of what kind of car you have...van, sedan, etc.
you pick that
then you pick where the passengers are
for example if its just you, you pick the front drivers seat
the timing delay makes it to where all the speakers hit you at the exact same time
this is necessary b/c youre not centered in your car, youre off to the side
it also has an auto-equalizer...
you get the radio, it comes with a small mic
you hook up the mic, put it on your headrest, wait 2 minutes and voila, the radio automatically put the settings where the 'norm' is
that in itself is f***ing amazing...lol
truthfully though, i havent used it yet...this summer im going to go to ebay and pick up another mm6 comp. set
i blew out one of my tweeters and currently have a DX tweeter courtesy of vince so my sound stage isnt totally screwed...
but i called polk and they wanted $100 for 1!
wtf?
theyre on crack
i can pick up a whole set on ebay for 170 with a 1 yr warranty...
hell, i might even try to send my old tweeter back and tell em it was one they sent me and it blew...maybe i can get a new one...lol
but anyway after i put the mm6 tweeter in ill do the auto-equalizer thing and report my findings
im not a fan of alpines, never have been, ive heard of too many people having too many problems with them
MTX will advise eclipse
you might want to look into them
they have 8 volt RMS pre outs!
down side--thatll fry some amps...
my brother has an old eclipse HU, straight black with a blue dial...looks killer, i love it, nothing special with the screen, not motorized or any of that
not many options with it, just your basics, but its an awesome deck...
but IMHO, nothing compares to the 940 in the price range, nothing...
-Cody

[MTXMAN]

Originally posted by exalted512
MTX will advise eclipse
you might want to look into them
they have 8 volt RMS pre outs!
down side--thatll fry some amps...
my brother has an old eclipse HU, straight black with a blue dial...looks killer, i love it, nothing special with the screen, not motorized or any of that
not many options with it, just your basics, but its an awesome deck...
but IMHO, nothing compares to the 940 in the price range, nothing...
-Cody

i'd say that the two top end eclipse decks will outperform the 940 in sq, the 940 may have more controll options but the eclipse' are known for being some of the absolute best sq decks available, they're kinda ugly and you don't get mp4 without buying the commander advace (rip-off) but the 2nd highest deck comes with 8v non clipping outputs and the top end one (eventually to be my new baby) comes with the option of switching between 8v non clipping of a 16v balanced output, basically the cleanest signal to ever hit an amp... i'm only going to be able to use that output on my usamps 2000x though cause the tube amps won't handle it, going with the 8 on those....

the pioneer with 6v preouts... i'm pretty sure that those are peak... as well as the rating on the 940.. i could be wrong though so don't kill me if i'm mistaken....

so far based on specs, the limited experience i've had with the company and others reviews i have nothing but praise for US Amps, as soon as my TU-600 comes in i'll be able to give you a better appraisal on them so if you can wait a little bit on amps i'll get you my opinion of an actual working setup with a US Amps amp. if you can afford it the us 1000 would power those two subs quite nicely....

i'd recoment pretty much scrapping the crappy little 4" speakers cause you're never going to get much from that hole... you may want to do some custom work (either in the door panels or on the front deck) and put in a 6.5 comp set of good quality... just make sure they're properly powered (you'd get great sq from the usamps tu-600 tube amp at 150x2 @ 4ohm, downside is you won't be able to find it for less than 500 bucks, i'm paying 498.20 w/ tax)

contrary to some other suggestions, go ahead and keep the subs that you have, the old db subs were known for being damn good and in a hatchback you realy don't need something with the power of a Diamond audio TDX or an Adire Bramah... you'd go deaf before you got home.... just get a nice clean amp on them with a good dampening factor and you'll be sitting pretty (hence my suggestion of the us 1000, it'll put out 1000x1 at 2ohms, that's if i'm correct in assuming that the db's are single 4ohm vc's)

here's some links....

http://www.eclipse-web.com/index_cd.html
look at the 8454... looks like they did away with the 16v balanced outs... that's gay....

http://www.usamps.com/
go to 2ch amps and look at the 1000/1000x

http://www.eclipse-web.com/index_e-com.html
the voice controlled eclipse commander advance that can be added to eclipse hu's, it's pretty dang pimp and worth takin a look at

[exalted512]

Originally posted by MTXMAN
i'd say that the two top end eclipse decks will outperform the 940 in sq

how much can you get them for?
i still say you cant get a better deck for 550 bucks than the 940
eclipse units are meant to be run with equalizers, thats why they dont have many options that deal with that
they also do not pick up FM stations as well as the pioneer does with the super tuner technology
you might also want to look at getting XM if you spend a lot of time traveling
i dont do a lot of traveling but i got it anyway and i am SUPER pleased with it
the only time i listen to FM anymore is in the morning b/c the morning show on my fav. rock station is HILARIOUS
you can listen to them online too... www.c101.com , they even have webcams...lol
and the pioneer deck runs 22x4 RMS
pretty clean power too
dont get like 2000-2001 eclipse model radios, they had a lot of problems with those
-Cody

[MTXMAN]

i had a price from a dealer last year of 549 for the second best one and anyway, who listens to the radio? lol, cd's for me... and if you want a song but don't want to buy the cd, just check it out from the local library and rip it onto your computer... satalite radio is pretty pimp though

[neomagus00]

yay for:
-alpine HU (i dunno about the rest, i've heard some stuff on the street about quality control issues)
-eclipse HU (great SQ, but beaten horribly with the ugly stick as a child)
-satellite radio
-components
-Focal (these speak for themselves)
-CDT, if you want awesome sound and want to save a bit on speakers (which is not to say that these aren't incredible)
-hifonics amps for subs; a little less cost for what will be a very subtle difference
-rotary volume control
-tubes for speakers
-balanced outputs
-Diamond for speakers, maybe
-4 channel amps for 2-way components (bi-amping, as long as the xover reaches up high enough for the tweeter)

no to:
-6x9
-mp3s (i dont get it, why not just use the CD? unless, of course, you're a criminal...)

i'd say fix the HU you've got, if you like it, and spend the money elsewhere. then again, the head that cody's been worshipping seems to be pretty good :p.

mbquart speakers do sound very nice, once you get above the first line (discus, if i'm not mistaken).

[exalted512]

Originally posted by MacLeod
Other recommendations for SQ amps would be JL Audio.

Other speaker nods would go to JL Audio.

it ALMOST slipped by...
JL=Bose but worse...
people who run JL=posers
JL=generally just sucks ass
even LEGACY has rubber surrounds
foam is a thing of the past JL...get rubber surrounds, cut the price in half, then i might consider JL, otherwise ill stick with stuff thats worth the money...
MacLeod, you keep this JL crap up and im going to start a protest against saying JL on this forum unless it has the words "sucks ass" in the same sentence
:D
-Cody

[MacLeod]

Originally posted by exalted512
it ALMOST slipped by...
JL=Bose but worse...
people who run JL=posers
JL=generally just sucks ass
even LEGACY has rubber surrounds
foam is a thing of the past JL...get rubber surrounds, cut the price in half, then i might consider JL, otherwise ill stick with stuff thats worth the money...
MacLeod, you keep this JL crap up and im going to start a protest against saying JL on this forum unless it has the words "sucks ass" in the same sentence
:D
-Cody

:D ROFLMAO!!!! LOLOLOL!!! :D

"It almost slipped by" LOLOLOLOLOL!!!

You crack me up dude!

OK, now If I were the only one that dug JL then Id be heading for the tall grass right now but unfortunately, 95% of the car audio community (well 95% of the community Ive actually met), all the car audio publications, the majority of SQ competitors, the majority of SQ competition judges and the Audo Sound Grand Prix people who have awarded every award they have to JL at one time or another, are all on my side. So that must give me a little credibility. :p

But in the interest of getting along Ill prove that I too can bitch about JL:
1) Power handling for the 8's are a joke. 75 and 125 rms?? WTF!
2) Stealthboxes must be made out of gold for the price they ask
3) W0's are no better than MTX T6000, I know cause Ive had both
4) Amp choices in the 2 channel. Either 45x2 for $200 or 150x2 for $450!! How bout a 100x2 for around $300?
5) Priceyness (is that a word?) of their Slash series amps. $425-1000! Yikes!
6) Letting Funk Master Flex use their stuff on his show!!! "Ya heard!"

[exalted512]

you must live in the rich neighborhood...
95% of the ppl ive meant and talked to online all agree theyre way overpriced
they make great stealth boxes---best in the car audio community, but like you said--theyre way overpriced...good thing is you can take the sub out, sell it, and get half of the price you paid for the box back
why?
b/c kids are stupid and think JL is the ****, even though it sucks ass
JL would be really great, but their prices absolutely suck ass
and notice I am in compliance with the long missing 11th commandment
you know...
"THOU SHALL NOT SPEAKETH OF JL WITHOUT THE WORDS SUCKS ASS IN THY SAME SENTENCE"
-Cody

[neomagus00]

i thought that was from the book of cody, not a commandment?

and you seem to have admitted that jl does sound good, it is just hideously overpriced.

[exalted512]

no, its the "long lost" commandment
i found it magic markered on a stone outside my house
i can take a pic if you want...lol
ive admitted they are good speakers before
aside from having foam surrounds
but i take price into consideration for it to be a good speaker
if a mm6 set was three thousand dollars, would you still consider it a good component set?
-Cody

[geolemon]

Originally posted by exalted512
it ALMOST slipped by...
JL=Bose but worse...
people who run JL=posers
JL=generally just sucks ass
even LEGACY has rubber surrounds
foam is a thing of the past JL...get rubber surrounds, cut the price in half, then i might consider JL, otherwise ill stick with stuff thats worth the money...
MacLeod, you keep this JL crap up and im going to start a protest against saying JL on this forum unless it has the words "sucks ass" in the same sentence
:D
-Cody

Being involved in the car audio industry (for a car audio manufacturer that is not JL or affiliated with them), I have to tell you that your words really have no backing, other than in some soft of high-school "what's cool" terms.

JL makes some tremendously high quality products, and to say that they actually set the benchmark for the industry would normally be JL marketing speak...
...except that they actually do - I can tell you, in the creation of a "super sub", we directly benchmarked against JL's W7, and Adire Audio's Brahma. Simply put, these two subs define the current standards for chassis and suspension technology, and motor capability - with the W7 not far behind in terms of motor capability.
We've also used the W6V2 as a benchmark for new product design.
And we aren't alone.
Many JL products truly are a benchmark, a reference standard - as are other significant industry leaders.

It's silly to think that somehow JL just "magically appeared" at the top...
They legitimately progressed their way to the top, by virtue of quality products and performance, from a little company out of Florida not long ago. I certainly remember them being small.
If they didn't build quality products, they wouldn't be where they are today.
And the quality of their products has improved over the years...
If you compare JL's previous flagship of the mid-90's - the W6 - to the current flagship of today - the W7 - it's amazing, how much the product has improved.

Just to put things in perspective, the original W6 (as functionally obsolete as the design is) competes well against the Momo subs currently on the market.

And the argument against foam surrounds really shows a lack of technical awareness.
Foam surrounds of today are much more durable than the foam surrounds of the turn of the century - if that's what you are comparing.
I actually still own three 10W6's, that I purchased nearly 9 years ago - and they are still in perfect shape. I had them running off of a PHD2 for fun, last year, in fact. ;)

Rubber surrounds are much more susceptible to changes in temperature, and can be much less resiliant in holding their shape.

In the end, as with anything - it's all in the design.
I can recall some Oz audio subs of the late 90's that I got to play with... they had rubber surrounds... and when you cranked on those subs, the surrounds looked like a ring of jello surrounding the sub. That's not a good thing.

There aren't any functional disadvantages to foam surrounds - so why bash them?

One parting comment...
Often, you hear less experienced enthusiasts bashing certain brands (as an entire entity, usually )... "____ sucks".
What is this opinion usually based on?
"Well, my friend has a _____ and it sounds like junk"
What's the fundamental flaw in this observation?
Experienced installers will spot it right away -

...the installation makes the install.
Your listening experience is the ultimate culmination of a multitude of electronic devices, their settings, their interconnects...
...and more in the scope of this discussion, an enclosure design that's well suited to the installation goals, and proper execution of the construction and installation/integration into the car.

If you hear something that "sounds like junk", chances are you shouldn't be blaming the product...
...you should be blaming the installer. :p

[geolemon]

Originally posted by exalted512
you must live in the rich neighborhood...
95% of the ppl ive meant and talked to online all agree theyre way overpriced
they make great stealth boxes---best in the car audio community, but like you said--theyre way overpriced...good thing is you can take the sub out, sell it, and get half of the price you paid for the box back
why?
b/c kids are stupid and think JL is the ****, even though it sucks ass
JL would be really great, but their prices absolutely suck ass
and notice I am in compliance with the long missing 11th commandment
you know...
"THOU SHALL NOT SPEAKETH OF JL WITHOUT THE WORDS SUCKS ASS IN THY SAME SENTENCE"
-Cody

Ignore pricing for a moment - because that's ultimately the decision of the shop selling the product, and the entire distribution chain leading up to it's delivery to their doorstep.
Realistically, JL fits right in with any product sold through a traditional shop via these distribution channels.

Now, ignoring pricing for just a moment (we certainly can, and will come back to it) - what aspects of JL (as an entire entity? ) don't you think stack up?

Give me some product names, model numbers, specifications... and why you believe they don't stack up.

When we get into areas involving sound accuracy, and SPL - there are some very objective things to look at, the comparison really isn't terribly difficult.

but please - we need something to focus on, some product, some aspect of that product that you don't believe stacks up.

[geolemon]

Also, coming back to get back on-topic with the thread at hand...

There are a great number of reasons that you actually don't want to run rear fill, particularly in a car (and you can look to dedicated stereo home audiophiles for inspiration, if you want - as opposed to home theater enthusiasts).

Primarily, the fact that the rear speaker locations will have a different pathlength distance to your ears relative to your front speaker locations, and therefore arrival time differences, and therefore a "comb filter" repeating cancellation node effect...
...that doesn't improve sound quality, or output. ;)

Here's an article that helps explain more about the issues at play, and how to deal with them.
It's written more or less "in layman's terms", should be an easy and worthwhile read.

I'm not sure how your front stage speakers are installed, but it's possible that they are simply "drop in replacement" type installs, likely in the doors.
Doors are not good acoustical environments... a door - stock - is neither a good enclosure, nor a baffle.
That being the case, the sound off the rear of the speaker can come right around, out the numerous holds in your inner door skin, and cancel out much of the sound coming off the front of the speaker.... because these two sounds are inherently 180 degrees out of phase.

Why is this?
Picture a speaker moving in slow motion:
When the cone moves out, it compresses the air in front of the cone, and decompresses the air behind the cone.
Without an enclosure - or at least a good baffle - the compressed air would simply bleed into the decompressed air, largely cancelling out any sound not pushed forward by simple on-axis momentum.

Let me repeat - the door - stock - is neither a good enclosure, nor a good baffle.

Because wavelengths get longer as frequencies get lower, the cancellations get worse, the lower in frequency you get.
So, a "drop in replacement" speaker might sound fine in the upper frequencies, not cancelling much at all...
...but the same speaker probably doesn't have much midbass at all.
It might even be flapping around terribly when the bass hits - but just can't seem to make much bass output.

The solution isn't to add rear speakers that "handle midbass better"(heck, they may have the same problem!)

The solution is to improve your front speaker install, to prevent these cancellations, improve the midbass of the front speakers that previously hadn't been allowed to work properly.
It's that simple...

I'd spend your budget on improving that front stage, and enjoy the acoustical benefits of having simple empty holes in the rear deck. ;) ...covered with nice, stealth-looking stock grilles of course. :p

[exalted512]

Ive never said they makes bad products
but when I consider a product to be good, I take price into account
I mean technically, if sony would cut their prices in half, i would consider them good, b/c thats about the price i would pay for something that wouldnt last forever, but sound decent
you will never hear me say the W7 is a bad sub, its an awesome sub, i agree
but they ARE overpriced
how much does the w7 retail at compared to the Brahma, the XXX, or the ED A(i think thats the right one...)?
theyre more than twice the retail last time i checked
living in south texas, ive seen many foam surrounds crack in the great heat we have down here, during the summer it regularly gets into the 130s inside vehicles
and thats NOT counting the humidity
i live 45 minutes from the ocean...
thats why i dont like foam surrounds
ive only seen a few rubber surrounds get "chapped" but never totally cracked
but like i said, i will say they is good when their price somewhat matches their performance
Polk's momo never used to be worth the price, but now that you can get them in a box for $180 off of sounddomain, theyre the best sub in the market IMO for the price
polk is not high end by any means, but for the price, i cant think of anything id rather have
but im not saying they make a bad product by any means, hell, their 5 channel amp is pretty cool
its like 125x2, 25x2, 400x1(those are not exact, but its something to that effect)
i read a lot of your articles chris, youre not someone i want to be arguing with b/c you know a hell of a lot more than i do, hell, ive posted some links to your articles on here
but to tell me that JL is a good product when compared what you pay for it is crazy IMO
-Cody

[geolemon]

Well, "the price you pay", like I mentioned before, is largely a function of the shop charging it. ;)

I've seen JL being sold anywhere from MSRP (which I personally have always carried an "nobody actually pays MSRP" mentality about myself ;) ) to half of MSRP, which is a big variance.

"what you get" for the dollar is tough too, particularly in light of JL's exceptionally conservative powerhandling ratings...
The literally continually torture-test the subs, doubling the power every hour on the hour. At whatever power level the sub fails on, they cut it in half, and call that RMS. It's really conservative... particularly compared to most other manufacturers.

So, a 300w JL sub would be equivalent to... a 500w sub by someone else?
It's tough to compare things like this.

Some of the things JL makes are a tremendous value...
The XR component set, for one.
You can generally pick that up, authorized, between $300-$350, for a 6.5" set, let's say.
The SQ is tremendous, the smoothness, even across the Xover point, is great. There are certainly other component sets that compete with it - but it's peers all seem to be in the $500-$600 range. That's a good value, IMO.

The amps aren't particularly a good value on a $/watt basis, but they have high-end features to them that other amps don't have... it's not really like comparing apples to apples, or Chevy to Ford... more like BMW to Ford.
Sure, the BMW isn't a good value... but I wouldn't call the BMW owner a "poser". BMW's - much like JL's - get fantastic reviews and industry accolades.

JL makes some good stuff.
JL distributes it through traditional retail channels - that alone adds a big overhead... but JL isn't alone - look at RF and other big-names out there. ;)

Personally, I'm a big fan of the direct-sales approach, such as Elemental, Adire, RE, etc...
They sell no-frills product that's packed with technology, selling it direct, and in doing so, are able to compete with the big guys.
Believe me, I'm with you there!

All I'm saying is, the JL products are high quality...
...their value really depends on the shop you get them from.
Unfortunately, one of those "law of supply and demand" things.
If people are going to pay high prices for them... the shop will charge high prices.;)

[exalted512]

like i said before, ive never said their subs are bad in quality, but their prices, even online are really bad
if they would sell like adire i think theyd be able to cut their prices drastically
but lets face it, they cant do it, theyre simply too big
maybe if all these kids with rich mommies and daddies would stop paying top dollar for them just because Funk Master Flex puts them in his cars they would go down in price...
until then...JL still sucks
i agree about RF, they are overpriced, but you can still get them for pretty cheap online from authorized dealers
have you heard much about their new power series?
theyve been sucking the last few years and they way RF was talking about their new lines it made it sound like they were "the ****"
I am personally starting to dislike RF as well...I wish now I would have gone with Hifonics instead of RF for my amps, I think i wouldve been happier...my next set of amps are going to be USAmps:D
-Cody

[Steve@3dai]

Buy Polk? :)

I dunno, maybe it's just me and this is a Polk audio forum ;) hahahaha

[MacLeod]

Geolemon - You are my new best friend!!

Cody - na, na, na, na, na :p (j/k bro)

And Cody, ya know I love ya man but you routinely call JL products crap as recently as this thread! JL=Bose but worse is pretty harsh! But I dont wanna be a dick and start nit picking (or did I already do that?)

I just want to address the price issue. JL has stuff that spans all price ranges. If you want amps you can start at the E2150 (45x2) for $200, the E4300 (45x4) $300, the E6450 (45x6) for $350 then move into the high end with the Slash series which starts at $400 for the 300/2 (150x2) and goes to $450 for the 300/4 (75x4) all the way up to the big boy 450/4 (150x1&2 + 75x3&4) for $750. On top of that, they have a whole line of mono amps for around the same prices. Now these are not out of line with other high quality amp makers like Xtant, Tru Tech and are actually a good bit cheaper than US Amps!

Subs are the same. They range from the $100 W0's to the $700 W7's. A little something for everyone.

The speakers are my favorite though. I think the $350 XR series (JLs top of the line til the $700 ZR series comes out later this year) are the best looking speakers on the market but they also sound awesome. I consider the XR's to be the only speaker under $400 that could rival the mighty MM6!

Anyways, I think weve argued this to death so Ill shut up now...thats assuming anybody is still reading this! LOL ;)

[LittleCar_w/12s]

Originally posted by geolemon
Also, coming back to get back on-topic with the thread at hand...

There are a great number of reasons that you actually don't want to run rear fill, particularly in a car ... Primarily, the fact that the rear speaker locations will have a different pathlength distance to your ears relative to your front speaker locations, and therefore arrival time differences, and therefore a "comb filter" repeating cancellation node effect

--- well.. I am looking into the pioneer that adjusts timing. That way the rear speakers are more effective.

Originally posted by geolemon
I'm not sure how your front stage speakers are installed, but it's possible that they are simply "drop in replacement" type installs, likely in the doors. ........ The solution is to improve your front speaker install, to prevent these cancellations, improve the midbass of the front speakers that previously hadn't been allowed to work properly.

--- Man, you just come to houston and help me fit something in that 4" space buried in my dash... or the limited floorspace that would simply eat any power i put through it.

Originally posted by geolemon
I'd spend your budget on improving that front stage, and enjoy the acoustical benefits of having simple empty holes in the rear deck. ;) ...covered with nice, stealth-looking stock grilles of course. :p

--- I am designing a enclosure and deck design geared to direct all the subs' sound energy into the cabin in a linear fashion. It will aslo fine-tune the direction of the rear speakers and include built in enclosures for them.

Well.. I hear what you're saying... just can't do that... I don't really have room in the front for all that speaker, considering I have a little car. I'm not sure what in-the-door speakers would sound like, but given that they would output perpendicular to the front stage at shin-level in my car... what's the advantage over rear speakers???

[LittleCar_w/12s]

I posted this separate from the one above...

BTW, thanks for all the help. I have gotten lots of ideas. Who woiuld've thought this would become such a long thread?

I like the one cody points out, and don't see a need for 8v or 16v outputs of the other one. It also includes tuniing for timing as well as no0 needing an external EQ.

I try not to mess with the EQ setings anyway.. I like it flat.. I figure if it was meant to have low bass, high treb.. so be it.. that's what the artist intended... though it is nice to tune it for live presentations say for a hall or concert effect.

Well.. I can use some infor for component speaker sets, and any ideas how to fit some larger things into my front dash.

I will try to get pics of my car's inside, though it is still trashed from the burglary :(

again, thx for help.

[LittleCar_w/12s]

(again, purposely submitted separately)

I have been away from the board for a few days so... let me catch up with the off-topics here...

I have had a few friend with JL Audio's years back. They are a great sub, but I will mention that they were little richie bitches that ran them....

as for foam surrounds... they are ok, but depend on the environment...

as for rubber surrounds... they need to have good design and be strong... hence a good chemist and designer for the sub. My DB's are a old and good demonstration for good surrounds... still perfectly shaped .... as for foams, old Kickers and some old RF's from years ago had great foam surrounds. I havent seen the new versions of either so I can't say.

As for RF: I am getting displeased as well... geeze, where did the quality go?

Well that's it for now
-jerry