Did I make a mistake with LSi7s?

[iluvmusic]

Did I make a mistake purchasing LSI7’s, because they're 4 ohm speakers?

Hello, this is my first post on the Polk Audio club forum, so please be gentle with me! I recently purchased a pair of LSI7s. My plan was to hook them up as main speakers to the Pioneer VSX-D711 receiver in my master bedroom. I only have stereo right now, but would like to gradually build towards surround sound in the future. My room is 12 X 16 ft. Anyway, after buying the speakers I started doing some investigation on the Web about them, and found that I really need a high current receiver to power these speakers. Had I realized that when I bought them, I wouldn’t have bought them. I’m not having any problems right now, running them off of the Pioneer, but am wondering if I’ll have problems in the future. The LSI7s are pretty nice sounding speakers, particularly for the size, but I’m wondering if maybe I should put some Rti towers in there instead, like the Rti8s or Rti70s (I can get an open box pair for a reasonable price). I have a pair of Rti8s downstairs in my main viewing area, powered by a Pioneer VSX-D811S, which sounds great to me (I love ‘em). And, I think they sound better than the LSI7s in my bedroom (by the way, I currently have the LSI7s setting on Sanus NF24 stands).

Both setups have comparable 16 gauge Monster speaker wire, and optical cables, etc.

So here’s my dilemma, and I’d appreciate any help anyone can give me. First of all, I don’t want to spend a whole lot of money - $500 or less would be nice. Should I replace the Pioneer 711 receiver with a high current receiver (am leaning towards Yamaha’s right now, like the HTR-5640 A/V receiver)? Or should I keep the Pioneer 711 receiver, and replace the speakers with some Rti8s or Rti70s. I can get some open box Rti70s for around $500. And, can anyone out there recommend a good A/V HT receiver? I probably want something that is good with music, as I listen to a lot more music, than watch home theatre. Thanks in advance for your opinions and help.

[madmax]

The LSi series is very nice and all but they require excellent high current amplification. On one hand it would be better to trade off the LSi's for the towers for HT. On the other hand it would be better to get a high current amplifier for the LSi's for music.

As I see it you need to decide which is more important, HT or HS.

madmax

[Sami]

Originally posted by iluvmusic
I can get some open box Rti70s for around $500.

The "going price" seems to have gone up. CC was selling them new for $300 a pair, I got my open box pair for $260 including tax. Try to bargain some more...

[jcaut]

Welcome to the forum!

I see that you already got a couple of replies while I was typing this, but I'll give my $.02 as well.

The LSi7's are really nice speakers, but they ARE 4 Ohm. They're designed to be used with higher end receivers, or preferably, a preamp/power amp combo. If you're not having problems driving them right now, you MIGHT not have trouble down the road either. The 7's are very probably the easiest of the LSi series to drive. I don't know much about the receiver you own, but most of the time if they can't deliver the current that your speakers want, they'll get hot and shut down. The thing is, though, that you're not hearing what the 7's are capable of, sound-wise. Even with the RT series, driving them with a powerful amp makes a very noticable difference, to my ears. That should be even more the case with the LSi's.

You need to hear the LSi7's, properly powered before you can make a good decision. Is there anwhere you can go to have a listen? Anyone near you who might loan you a power amp?

You have several options. The first thing you need to decide is whether or not you like the LSi series enough better than the RTi series to make the upgrades in your system to go with them. If you should decide to keep them you could upgrade your reciever, but the $500 budget is going to be a problem. The HT receivers capable of doing justice to the LSi's cost substantially more than that. If your Pioneer has preamp outputs, you could consider adding a separate power amp or amps. You could stay within your budget that way, at least for stereo. If you build towards HT, depending on what other speakers you choose, a two-channel amp might still be all you have to have. Or you could add amps as your system grows.

If you're not opposed to used gear, you could build a nice system this way. As for new power amps on the cheap, you couldn't go wrong with Audiosource.

Here's my opinion: If your goal is ultimately a home theater setup, and you don't have a desire to pour gobs of money into it, then you would probably be better off swapping the LSi7's for some RTi's. If you're really into music, forget the HT. Buy a good two channel preamp and a power amp, and keep the LSi's. A good two-channel rig might really surprise you.

That's just my opinion. It's not that the LSi's don't make good HT speakers---- It's just that they're meant to play on a different level, and it's a much more expensive level, especially when you're talking HT.

Jason

[jefft1314]

What about an onkyo 601 or perhaps even a used 701? I know Onkyo's are high current and have quite a bit of power. I've also heard that they are geared more towards home theater. If you're looking for ht, you could keep the lsi's, buy an onkyo receiver, like the ones i suggested, and then be in pretty good shape. Unless of course, i'm completely wrong about the Onkyo's, any body have an opinion on this?

[jefft1314]

Sorry about the double post. I just checked ecost and they have an Onkyo 701 refurbed at like 430 and an 800 refurbed at 540. I'm pretty sure that the 800 is a pretty excellent receiver, if you could sweat the extra 40, I'd suggest going that route. I ordered my Denon 1804 from them, got it in less than a week, and it's a refurbed that is in perfect condition. I'm pretty stoked about it.

[avelanchefan]

ILuvMusic,

I sent you a private message, and Jeffs suggestion of the Onkyo is another good idea.

[iluvmusic]

What do you guys think of the Yamaha DT-640V(I think that's the number) - I can get it at Ultimate Electronics today for $360 - it's regularly $499.

Anyways, thanks for the help so far. I’m going to have to keep the Lsi7s, as the Rti70s I was interested in got sold and there aren’t any more around my area. I could look around and wait for some more, but think I’ll just stay with the Lsi7s. So, that means I need to be looking at an amp, pre-amp, or a better A/V receiver. Let’s say that I raise the amount I‘m willing to spend on an A/V receiver to $1000.00. Could I get a good one for that price, to power these amazing little speakers, and do them justice? And, if so, what models should I be looking at. Keep in mind, I’m more interested in great sounding music, than home theater – though I still want to have a decent start on a decent sounding home theater.

I don’t know anything about pre-amping as you mentioned above. But, another option is to move my Pioneer 811s to my bedroom, as it has pre-outs to hook up another amp, though I really don’t know anything about how to do that! Then I could move the Pioneer 711 downstairs to power my Rti8’s. There’s not much difference between the 711 and the 811s – the two main differences are no preouts on the 711, and the 711 is 5.1 vs 7.1 on the 811s. So, if I want to switch these receivers and use the 811s with the pre-outs with the LSI7s, what model would I be looking for in a good preamp? And, where would be a good place to get one? Thanks again.

[Sami]

Some suggestions. I got myself the H/K, still considering adding the Carver but I don't really need for RTi70's, right?

H/K AVR-7200, 7 * 100W for $840:

http://www.onecall.com/PID_18440.htm

Carver AV505 amp, 5 * 80W, for $330:

http://www.onecall.com/PID_23715.htm

[iluvmusic]

Thanks JeffT on the suggestions of the Onkyos, but I've also read that they're better for HT than music, and since I'm more interested in good sounding music, that turned my attention to the Yamahas. By the way, CC has the Onkyo 601 on their website this week for $399 - $100 off the regular price!

[Sami]

edit: nevermind

[jefft1314]

I work for circuit city. They're the devil, well at least my boss is anyway. At any rate, for a 1000 dollars I'd probably look into something by Marantz, they are highly regarded for their music playback, though I'm unsure of whether they can play speakers in 4 ohms. (I'd imagine at that price point though, it shouldn't be a problem). Possibly check into a marantz sr-8300 factor certified from accessories4less at 1049. That looks like a monster of a receiver. So if music is your thing I would consider checking out higher end Dennons and the Marantz (factory refurbished) or the midline models if you're looking for somethign brand new. Find some place to audition them if you get the chance.

[iluvmusic]

If I were to get the Carver, I'm really new at this, how would I hook it up - remember the Pioneer 711 doesn't have pre-outs. Would I need to use my Pioneer 811 with pre-outs instead?

Or could you possibley link me to a website that shows how to hook it up. Thanks, you guys are great!

[jefft1314]

Last post before I go off to work. I checked out a pretty glowing review on the marantz 8200, said it made the reviewer forget it was an avr because of how well it played music. Since the 8300 replaced the 8200 I'd find it tough to believe that the 8300 is possibly worse than the unit it replaced. (this seems to be true in receivers in general I've found, not like cars, where new models can simply suck). Marantz is one of the harder manufactuers to find any kinds of reviews on, but scour the web, see what you can find. I'm sure that for a grand you can get yourself a pretty awesome sounding AVR, that will please your musical tastes as well as deliver fairly bone shattering movie performance. Eek... I sound like a salesman. Take care.

[Sami]

You hook the preouts to the amp and the amp to speakers. I was thinking of getting the Carver to hook into the mid/highs and let the 7200 handle the lows. RTi70's don't need that much power though so I decided to save my money for something else (my car can always use the money...). Not sure if this would help much with the LSi7's though but I think the Carver would still be putting out more than the Pioneer in terms of true output watts.

FYI:
http://www.hometheaterforum.com/htfo...ghlight=preout

[scottnbnj]

"I started doing some investigation on the Web about them, and found that I really need a high current receiver to power these speakers. Had I realized that when I bought them, I wouldn’t have bought them. I’m not having any problems right now, running them off of the Pioneer, but am wondering if I’ll have problems in the future."

i read all of the same stuff you did before i bought my lsi9's and had the same worries. luckily the store i bought them from had theirs powered by amps that probably weren't the best suited with zip cord. they said they run them pretty hard all the time(something to the effect that they're the speakers they like hearing from the other end of the store), so i took it to mean they weren't blowing up their gear,.. and '02 polk catalog says lsi 7's and 9's are compatible with 8 ohm outputs.

if you notice your amp getting hotter than you remember in the past or if you plan to press harder in the future or start wanting more out of your lsi's(they're capable of it), *then* better gear will be in order.

for here and now, if you haven't had problems you probably haven't driven them too hard or clipped them. i'd relax a bit and enjoy, while being very careful about pressing harder than you already have,.. and take comfort in the fact that your speaks are a solid foundation to build up from when you're ready and have taken your time to do your homework carefully.

)

[iluvmusic]

I'll probably disappoint some of you guys, but I decided to get the Yamaha RX-V640 A/V receiver, as it will handle these speakers. I have 30 days to try it out, and if I don't like it, I can return it. My long range plan is to eventually get a more powerful receiver for these LSI7's, and eventually move this Yamaha to my family room to work with my Rti8's. I will keep in mind, when I do that, all the things you guys have taught me.

I've only had the receiver one evening, but I already can tell a difference between this receiver and the Pioneer I was using. The sound is cleaner, not as muddy, and the imaging seems to be much better.

Thanks for all of your help, and input.

[michael_w]

I too am having the same conflict.... I have a pair of lsi7's on the way but since the avr I have now is just some crappy panasonic (sahe-75) I bought to get my started with audio stuff I'm thinking I'll need a much much better avr to have the speakers sound half as good as they are capable of but my budget isn't so great at the moment. Should I hold off getting a low end yammy that can power them or hold off the receiver until I can get enough money for a high end avr? thanks for any imput.

Michael

[Willow]

I dont know why you'd think you'd dissapoint peeps here, you asked for advice they gave it what you do with it is another story. If you are happy with the yammy Great !! thats all that matters

[iluvmusic]

Michael, my Yamaha RX-V640 sounds real good with the LSI7's, but I was thinking of returning it and getting an even better AV receiver like the Denon 2803 - but I downloaded the manual for that model and it says to use 6 ohm to 16 ohm speakers!!! I couldn't believe it! The Denon AVR-2803 is going to really come down in price now because the 2805 is out, and I've read that it's really a nice sounding receiver. The only things I really didn't like about the Yamaha RX-V640 receiver is that is runs really warm with these speakers (actually it runs warm with my Rti8's also), plus you can't adjust the sub crossover - it's set at 90 hz. You can get the Yamaha RX-V1400 for $799 list I think, which is probably a pretty nice receiver. I've been thinking of uprgrading to that one. But, anyway, with the LSi7's being 4 ohm speakers, it really limits the A/V receivers that you should use with them. I actually decided to sell the LSi7's, but if they don't sell, I'm pretty much limited to a receiver like the Yamaha. Does anyone out there know of a little more "high end" receiver (something in the $500-$1000 price range), that has a bass & treble boost, like the Pioneer models have (the Loudness & Midnight settings). I like to have that available, if I want to use it. Thanks.

[AsSiMiLaTeD]

If you're looking at staying with a receiver to power those LSi speakers, I'd look at HK. It will have no issue driving the 4 ohms becuase it uses 'true' high current amps...

If you like the HK sound, I'd look at that as an option in the receiver market...

[Sami]

I don't have any problems with powering 5 LSi7's with my H/K AVR7200. Definately an improvement over RTi70's.

[scottnbnj]

Originally posted by michael_w
Should I hold off getting a low end yammy that can power them or hold off the receiver until I can get enough money for a high end avr?

relax, wait and see what your current gear sounds like with them and just don't press it too hard too fast,.. and enjoy.

you really don't know how it's going to mate with your gear until you try. the first receiver i had w/ my lsi9's was a denon dra-25(maybe 10 years old, 40 wpc @ 8 ohms). it ran non-stop for several days, volume mostly around 9-10 o'clock, for short periods maybe a little over 11, and it really never even got warm. it sounded pretty good too.

don't be discouraged if they don't sound great out of the box either, their sound will change alot with time, placement and tweaks. if you've never owned rear ported speaks, placement effects will be different than you're used to too.

while you still have your old speaks set up, if you haven't already, it might be a good idea to check how warm it runs when you drive it hard as a reference for how it handles your lsi's.

if you notice it getting warmer with the lsi's or hot, that might be a good indicator as to how little time you have to budget for your upgrade.

)

[Willow]

but how warm or hot are we talking about ?? my receivers get warm......my kenwood used to get very hot powering BOSE....they are gone now(the bose are)...they kenwood w/polks ran warm and the kenwood with my jbls runs warm/ yammy with polks runs warm......so what are we saying when we say warm or hot

[michael_w]

Alright thanks people I guess I'll just wait and see what they sound like with my current receiver and just keep saving until I can get something that will be a substantial upgrade. :D having you people to ask is so damn handy in getting me on the right track to good sound. Thanks.

Michael

[Zero]

Gentlemen,

No affordable receiver will be able to power the LSi's with ease. The *ONLY exceptions are ones that boast DIGITAL amplifiers. They can drive a 4 ohm load with absolute ease, and finese. They will sound incredibly clean, dynamic, and powerful. Cheap digital amps have a unique, sterile sound, you will either like it or not.

Regardless, if your wanting to stick with a receiver, and wanting to keep it cheap, look for:

Sony av 700 integrated unit
Panasonics SA XR 70
Kenwood will be coming out with one soon

Seems like there are a few more, but I cannot think of anything right now.

[iluvmusic]

How about the Harman Kardon DPR-1001, or something like that? I'd been thinking about taking a look at that one.

[scottnbnj]

Originally posted by Willow
but how warm or hot are we talking about ?? my receivers get warm......my kenwood used to get very hot powering BOSE....they are gone now(the bose are)...they kenwood w/polks ran warm and the kenwood with my jbls runs warm/ yammy with polks runs warm......so what are we saying when we say warm or hot

ok, i'm in over my head with the technical aspects here, i've often seen it said that if you can't hold your hand on it, it's too hot. for me, i'd like it a bit cooler than that.

beyond that i'd say if your bose didn't cook it and it was hot, then hotter than that might be a guidelines for what will fry it. for what will fry the structure you have it residing in,.. now that might be a different story.

do you have this thing on its own shelf with a few inches of air around it? if not, just getting gear off the top of it will help. also, for the bottom if you're still hot you might even try to raise it with something stable under the feet to get more airflow around it, especially if there are vents on the bottom. some folks even use fans, i've seen threads on that around here somewhere.

good luck, and be careful.

)

[Zero]

iluvmusic,

I heard the HK 1001 on a pair of Infinity Alpha 40's at my former work place. It did not knock my socks off, but it was clean and clear.

I've come to find the HK 1001 is incredibly smooth, balanced, though it may lack balls to some.

I feel it is worth a shot.

[Willow]

the bose are long gone now my polks with my yammy run warm but thats after a 3 hr dvd.....I was asking in general and using some of my current equip and previous equip.