RTI10 versus axiom's m80

[astorpiazzola]

I want to buy a new pair of loudspeakers.I already own a pair of rti10 but i found that they clip at high listening levels.They're bi-amp, avr525 for mid and high and avr8000 for bass section...I would like to have opinions if possible from axiom connaisseurs or owners that also own rti series...
thanks for your time!!!

[Mjr7531]

To the best of my knowledge speakers do not clip per se, They do distort though, are you sure it isn't your amp? Because if it is your amp, then it obviously isn't your Rti10s

[Tour2ma]

Originally posted by Mjr7531
To the best of my knowledge speakers do not clip per se...

Bingo!

Welcome to the Club, astropizazzamigo (or something like that...)

[astorpiazzola]

ok, so i was tryimg to say that they distort, they do a cracking sound... but if you read my post again, you'll understand that i want an opinion on the value and sound quality of the rti10 versus the m80, not a semantic inquiry. but thanks again...

and hi to you tour2marde, good cynical welcome!!

[Tour2ma]

:D

astor,
Can you attribute the "crackling" to a particular driver? Is it occurring in both channels?

Possible you are just overdriving the 10's, but I'd consider popping the drivers out for a looksee at the connections (starting with the tweeters, if you cannot ID the culprit) just to be sure everything is solid in there.

Tour2maflugle...

[astorpiazzola]

it's on the left one, and it's the tweeter i think.When i listen to a dvd, And my amps are set at around -10db, when the sounds are high and loud,the sound is right but pops a bit. If you think that it could be possible that a loose wire could be related to that problem, i'll check it out... By overiding, are you meaning that i pump to much power in the rti10's? I've check the bookshelf model with the same combination of drivers(for tweeter and midrange) and it was rate around 125w.And the hk amp that i use is a avr525 and it's rated around 70w.Maybe it's to much...
My fear is that it's the case, and that i should buy a loudspeaker that can handle alittle more juice... Axiom's m80...

[Tour2ma]

If it's only one-channel, I'd definitely peek inside, wiring at both the tweeter and the crossover, as well as the crossover itself. One bad solder connection plus cabinet vibration might be all that's going on.

You said you are bi-amping, so you are putting the 525's 75 wpc to the tweeters only... yes? If so, overdriving them is possible, if you listen at very high volumes...

[astorpiazzola]

i'm bi-amping therti10's with the ar525(harmankardon) for the tweeters and mid-ranges, and an avr8000(hk) for the two 7inchs on each rti.so their is 75w rms on the tweeter and mid-range, and 110w rms on the two 7 inchs on each speakers.like i said before, for the upper section, it's the same thing like the bookshelf model (6 1/2 driver with tweeter) rated at 125 w peak so i'm not too bad with the 75w rms but ii'm afraid that it's a little bit too much... And the 110w rms on he bass section of the rti10 is just enough for smooth handling of the impacts and nice bass...

[2+2]

Dont know about the poping but have you heard the M80s? Make sure you listen to them before committing to a purchase cuz you may be out of shipping $. Axioms get great reviews. I listened to the M60s for about 1.5 hrs. M60s were good speaker for HT but not very good for acoustic/symphonic music. The tweeters are pretty harsh on them. Mids and bass were pretty good. M80s use the same drivers and the consensus is that they sound pretty much alike. Good luck but I think you will like your RTi10s better....

[Tour2ma]

astor,
My point was that the 10's power rating is for driving the entire speaker, not the tweets or the mid-woofs. So applying 75 w to the tweets could potentially overdrive them.

One more question... How do you ensure proper balance with the 10's bi-amped by two AVR's?

[gregure]

Bi-amping has been a subject of much conversation on this forum, and I've never seen any mention of overdriving the upper drivers w/ anything as little as 75 watts. Feeding the upper binding posts w/ that power should not result in overdriving. If anything, you endanger the tweeters by driving them too hard w/ too little juice.

That said, my suggestion would be to sell the HK 8000 and get a decent amp to drive the 10's entirely. A good 200 wpc amp feeding the 10's would be plenty to make them sing. You could bi-wire, or use the gold connectors and forget about bi-amping w/ two receivers. They're not really made for that.

Personally, I haven't heard the Axioms, and I know that they have excellent ratings, yet whenever I read reviews from respected A/V mags, the Axioms don't fare that well. They are usually compared w/ the lower eschelon of speakers, whereas Polk speakers tend to be measured against a bit higher quality (for example, the LSi line is often compared to the Paradigm reference series).

In short, I think you should stick w/ the 10's and examine your preamp/amp/reciever setup for better options. At 300 watts power handling, the 10's are plenty strong enough to handle as much as you can reasonably throw at them.

Also, keep in mind that the Axiom M80's are 4Ohm speakers, which would definitely require a new system to drive them. The HK's would be able to do it, but not without strain, and probably some clipping. An amp would be the only way to go w/ the M80's. Upgrade the amps, then see where you're at w/ the speakers.

[Tour2ma]

Originally posted by gregure
Bi-amping has been a subject of much conversation on this forum, and I've never seen any mention of overdriving the upper drivers w/ anything as little as 75 watts. Feeding the upper binding posts w/ that power should not result in overdriving. If anything, you endanger the tweeters by driving them too hard w/ too little juice.

Agree... Think I've been involved in 90% of those discussions and have never wondered this before.

Point was that a speaker's overall continuous power rating does not apply to each section (HF and LF) of the speaker in a bi-amp configuration. This is clear in many Polk designs since they utilize Poly-switches to protect the tweeters.

Normally bi-amping would not give me pause, as the split output of a single Pre-amp insures that the nature of the source is involved in the "protection" of the tweeters. However, when there appear to be two separate volume controls involved, as may be the case here, it raised the concern in my mind, that the signal to the tweets might be overpowering.

[agw]

Try amping the 10's from only one source to see if you still have the problem. That should isolate it if it is the speaker. If its coming from the left only it sounds as though it is a bad connection between the tweeter, crossover or it may just be a bad tweeter.

[astorpiazzola]

ok, thanks a lot for all of your opinions and comments.I think i'll buy another pair of rti.And for the m80, the avr8000 can easily drive those speakers, in fact, axiom recommends that receiver with the m80's. And for the lack of power, i had a signaure amp from hk that was 200wpc rms and i prefer the setup that i have now by bi-amping with he two receivers.I would still like to have more inputs from people who own rti10 or rti's and know about axiom speakers.

By the way,I've listen to star wars iV tonight and the clipping sound was almost none existent...The dd ex track seems to obliterate the problem. I tought about that and i think that maybe the problem only occurs when i'm listening to 2 channels or a 1 channel film track and that i emulate (logic7 or dplII) the other channels.when i listen to music, i use 7 channel stereo and the problem is not existent.And thinking about it, maybe the problem only occurs with old film remade on dvd... i don't know, but i'll test everything this week-end! And i think i'll buy another pair of rti10's for surrounds.

[shiu]

I have the RTi38 book shelves. I powered them with a Sony DA4ES for a while, and later with my 200WPC Adcom power amp. Even at reference volume, the book shelves did not distort.

If you power the mid and high drivers of the RTi10 with an AVR525, it would be the AVR that you have to worry about clipping, not the speakers, unless something else is wrong. The AVR525 has a power supply that can handle "all 7 channel driven" power at rated level (75WPC) but its amplifiers (each individually) may not be rated much higher than the specified 75W. I have read more than one post here about how much juice the RTi10 needs.

If the problem does not exist with DD EX material, then I think you may be right, the distortion could have been just due to some bad source material. I have never listened to the m80 but I think the RTi6,8,10 all sound great. I think you would have to pay a lot more to get speakers that sound better.

[Tour2ma]

Originally posted by astorpiazzola
... i think that maybe the problem only occurs when i'm listening to 2 channels or a 1 channel film track and that i emulate (logic7 or dplII) the other channels.when i listen to music, i use 7 channel stereo and the problem is not existent.And thinking about it, maybe the problem only occurs with old film remade on dvd...

Possibly a processor glitch? Interesting...

[bigsexy1]

Originally posted by gregure
That said, my suggestion would be to sell the HK 8000 ...

I have to respectfully disagree here with that. By all means, KEEP that HK8000. It's as strong as a 5 channel 125 watt per seperate power amp and a very good analog preamp as well.

I would take it over the Outlaw seperates any day of the week. Not knocking Outlaws, it's the 8000 is just that damned good!

It all by itself is more than powerful enough to drive a set of 10s without worring about getting into bi-amping.

On the other hand, yeah, gregure is right. Sell it! I'll buy it right now!

[astorpiazzola]

i think that maybe gregure never owned or listened to an avr8000.I'm more than sure that the avr8000 alone could amplify rti10s easily.That being said, the new pair of rti's are bought.So i now own 4 rti10.And i am not afraid at all of under-amping the rti10s.I can confirm that the problem with my left speaker does not occur with DD 5.1 or DD eX.So the conclusion would be that the problem is not from the speaker but from the 7 channels emulation...I originaly tought it was the speakers cause i was sending to much juice to these babies but with all the previous comments that everyone have posted, too much juice is not a bad thing for the rti's.I'll try amping them with the avr8000 and see if their's a big difference.thanks again everyone!!!
:)

[chinchaz]

I am new to this HT thing and all of this amp and bi-amping thru the 100 gigawatt processor is making my head hurt....

Question: I am interested in buying either the RTi8's or the RTi10's. I have the Onkyo txsr601 receiver. Will that receiver be enough to run those speakers?

[Early B.]

Question: I am interested in buying either the RTi8's or the RTi10's. I have the Onkyo txsr601 receiver. Will that receiver be enough to run those speakers?

Sure. The issue is not whether the receiver can power them, it is about getting the best possible sound from your speakers, and that comes from having them powered by a separate amp. But if you're new to HT or your funds are limited or the wife won't let you do it or whatever the reason, you shouldn't worry about getting separate amps right now. Just pop in a DVD and enjoy your HT.

[Tour2ma]

Welcome to the Club, chinchaz...

EB's right, take your time. Most of the mofo's 'round here have spent years building up to what they have today. Only important thing is to develop a plan... and there are plenty of people here willing to help you spend your money wisely (not as satisfying as "mainlining" gear into our rigs to sate our audio monkeys, but it helps quiet the nerves).

For example:
-if you buy the 8's at a CC, you should be able to trade up at full credit within the next year... (at least this has been their policy)
- if you open yourself to used gear, you can stretch your dollar by more than double, and/ or get your hands on a level of equipment you never dreamed you could on a given budget...

So take your time and enjoy the journey...

[chinchaz]

Thanks...

I am looking at getting the speakers off Ebay. They are usually 1/2 the price of what I would pay in the store. Anyone think this is completely loony? I already purchased the RC85i inwalls for my rear speakers ($189).

Depending on pricing I would like to get:

RTi8 or RTi10
CSi5 or CSi3
and some sort of subwoofer (which i havent figured out yet) and this is open to suggestions...

Obviously getting the RTi10s and the Csi5 would be ideal but still looking to get the right price. Gotta be able to still sleep in my own bed and not on the couch;) But I do have some leeway.