Set of Polks on the way, what about speaker wire/cables?

[Bonham]

Firstly, I'm a newbie (around here). So this is my first post.

I've also looked around a bit at other posts and seen some comments on speaker wire, cables, etc... but I wanted to ask specifically about the speaker wire.

Cables, I will believe can make a big difference in quality, I've seen it firsthand with it comes to video on my HDTV... but speaker wire? I'm no techie, but I'm skeptical to say the least (and being a salesman to some extent I instinctively DON'T trust salespeople until they make me think I should).

I should mention my previous equipment was late 80's Fisher seperates and some gigantic Techniques front speakers (18" subs) and two back surrounds that I don't even remember the brand of.

The gear I have or will be getting: I have the new Monitor 70's, CS2 Center, PSW12 Sub and FXi3's on the way (side question, should I look into getting a center back? A 2nd CS2?).

I'm leaning towards the new Harmon Kardon DPR 2005... I like everything I see and hear apart for some of the quality issues with the China made newer gear. That's making me hesitate, but I'm thinking H/K would correct any issues...? Thoughts on the H/K are welcome, but I'm really interested in what type and how much I should be spending on speaker wire.

So... I suspect so long as the speaker wire is of the right gauge and shielding (and the connectors are good) I'm not going to see big differences if any. I'm inclined to believe that the "high-end" stuff might be better if I'm worried about the thinkness of the wire and I'm really not caught up in cost... but just cause I'm not doesn't mean I want to get suckered. Once I put the speakers where they are going to stay (different house most likely) I'll be running the wiring through the floors/walls/ceiling so size will (eventually) not be an issue. Doesn't mean I'm not going to get something nicer however in the mean time.

[HBombToo]

my speaker wire has batteries on the end with a button to light an led. Nice feature when your sniffen your speakers

HBomb

[F1nut]

What's your budget?

[gidrah]

I think most people will agree that speaker wire and interconnects can make a difference. The main point of discontent is often about how much improvement is capable within each system and the most cost effective way to do it.

What I believe:
Inteconnects (RCAs) - Once a certain level of performance is reached anything beyond is more dependant upon the equipment and personal tastes. Some ICs simply suck, but there are plenty of ICs that can compete with the much more expensive brands and models on a system that the electronics are not as revealing. It's like putting Perrelli's on a Yugo. The Yugo can only handle as well as a Yugo. The trick is to put the best tires on the Yugo (I'm not calling your system a Yugo, just making an analogy) for your needs at a reasonable price. I have a pair of Monster A/V cables that were connected to a system. One day I bought some Radio Shack "Gold" ICs for like $5 for 2 pair. The Radio Shack blew away the Monster by no small margin. I don't feel that Monster made an inferior product, just that Tandy made one better at a more reasonable price. I might consider the higher end Monster ICs for my better system, but my early findings have turned me off of considering this brand as a cost effective option. I may be wrong, but I've made up my subconcious mind. Don't get me wrong, I've tried others too that were more expensive than the Monsters but still sucked. These were usually the lowest (most cost effective ) lines from a manufacturer athat had ridden their name and reputation to the bank. Many people buy these just because of the name and the cost (not enough to hurt the pocket, but enough to show you care) assuming it's a good product. Unfortunately it's a **** product that is purposefully downgraded in order to justify the costs of their better stuff.

I'm sorry. I got on a rant. Catch speaker wire tomorrow.

[Tour2ma]

gidrah... the Dennis Miller of Club Polk... :)

Agree on IC's, I've heard differences there, as well.

Bonham (as in John?),

First, welcome to the Club.

I'm pretty much in lock step with your stance. Makes more sense that low level signals will be impacted by the quality of what is carrying them. I believe that to a great extent, terminations make or break an IC's performance.

I am still holding out on speaker wire, mostly out of economic necessity (over 300' of 12 ga Home Depot wire in my HT), but plan to play when the 2 ch room is set. Much more affordable at ~12' total... 24', if I bi-wire.

On your rear center question... You can always "borrow" your one CS2 from its front duties for some rear center testing. If you like it...

On HK, they've a fair AVR following around here, and even more members scarfed up some of their 4 ch amps to boost their systems' power a couple notches.

Since you have "the new Monitor 70's... on the way", please be sure to post some thoughts on them.

[Bonham]

Budget I'm not too caught up on, I mean I'm about to blow $4k on speakers and a receiver, so I'm not going to balk at spending some money on speaker wire and connects. I figure a few (3?) hundred at most ought to more then get me the 'best' if they REALLY make a noticable difference. I'm just not convinced that I can't get the same performance out of speaker wire of the same gauge for a fraction of the cost that many of the "name brands" want so long as it's capable of carrying the signal.

Yeah, the name was originally inspired by Led Z :D I write freelance a little (someday might submit a novel to a publisher when I get the time to write it) and Bonham is the name I've used in online gaming for my main character and in table-top gaming etc. I love the band, and the name just kinda fits the genre.

[Zero]

Welcome to Club Polk.

The model DPR 2005 from Harman Kardon is a nice receiver that has been marred with teething problems and a lack of adequate power.

The quality of sound you get from this piece is very typical of what you can find from HK, and that is a very smooth, coherent and warm sound. The DPR 2005 takes the traditional solid state sound to the next level. The down side is that you still run into volume issues. This unit just does not have that much power and may not suit your needs for HT. This entirely depends on your listening preferences and environment, just the same, it is something that must be kept to mind.

For under the DPR 2005 price tag, please keep your eyes and ears open for the Kenwood 7100. This receiver uses digital amplification and seems to be recieving very pleasant feedback from various communities. She is very powerful and seems to sound good with both analog and digital inputs. The sound is akin to that of digital amps, clean, powerful, detailed and dynamic. It may be a tad dry (not as involving) in comparison the DPR 2004. Argubly, it is not as cosmetically appealing nor does it contain the same quality of RCA's and binding posts.

Lastly, the JVC RX-10 gets a worthy mention as its sound is very different from most "digital" amps. In fact, this unit isnt all digital, its a hybrid. This is what I currently use and I just can't say enough about it. After using some very nice equipment for this system, the little $250 JVC is here to stay.

Reports are that with Fiber Optic and digital coax connections, it sucks. If you use analog (which I am), its a dream.. This unit is powerful and has a very warm, tube like sound to it. The downside is, the speaker terminals on the back are clips...

Cables often DO make a remarkable difference, but it is more about synergy than anything else. Just because cable (A) sounds better than cable (B) in your system doesnt make it a better product, usually it just means its a better match.

Suggestions can be endless, but let me get one thing out of the way - STAY AWAY from Monster Cable. Unless you can find them at a great discounted price (good luck), typically you can get much better for the same price.

For speaker wire, I would look at the following brands:

IXOS Gamma (can be found at www.ac4l.com). I love this stuff, cheap and it really does the trick. Their speaker wire is great stuff, though their interconnects are pricey for what your getting.

Signal Cable (www.signalcable.com). Frank is a great guy and makes a great product. 30 day trial period - you can't loose.

Radio Shack Fusions. Great series (now discontinued). These are actually Monster Cables priced how they should be.... for the asking price, its difficult to beat them. Please check out ebay to find the cables.

The MIT Terminator series is also good wire to invest in, though a bit more expensive than whats listed above.

Either way, you have lots of choices to make... Hopefully this will give you a bit more to chew over. Good luck

[sowen010599]

I'll throw my two cents (or less) in here.

HK, well, hmmmm. I left that brand after owning several. The biggest reason was total lack of dynamics. They sound great (assuming you like that HK sound), it's just that they are sooo dynamically limited. By that, I mean, it doesn't have the huge swings in volume that the source material does. Go to a good theater and you'll see what I mean. It goes from stone quiet, to ground shaking loud. HK's just don't do that. They're just kind of along for the ride laying out the material at pretty much the same volume all day long. I converted to Yamaha. Currently I have an RX-V2400. I used it to power the speakers for many months before going on my mono-block craze. Now it's just a pre/pro. Even with the 2400's somewhat limited power, it shamed every HK I have ever heard. Now, well, now it's just getting ridiculous.

For cables, get the best speaker cable you can for your fronts. Signal Cable is great, they make a wonderful product. I would recommend them to anyone. For the rears, you need sooooo many feet, really high quality cables just get too expensive. I picked up a couple of spools of Monster off the bargain table (covers ripped off) at CC. Some swear that any old wire, lamp wire, extension cords, etc, work just as well. For me, I like the piece I get from knowing my speaker cables are not a weak link. I know if I chopped up some extension cords and used them, I would always doubt them regardless of how good they sound.

Digital cables (coax/optical), I don't care what anybody says, I have NEVER heard a difference between high-end and cheapo's (cheapo being AR/Monster). So get whatever, as long as they're not too crappy (RCA, etc).

Analog cables (ie SACD to pre/pro, pre/pro to amps, etc.), they can make a BIG difference. So if you have a need for them, don't skimp. Plan to spend some coinage on them. I also don't think any particular cable is well suited for any particular use. Meaning, some cables sound good with some equipment doing some things. I know that's totally vague but you may find a cable sounds better running from the pre/pro to the amps than from a player to the pre/pro. It's a game to get it the way you want it and it's one you have to play on your own, with your ears, with your equipment.

[Bonham]

Ok, couple questions...

Firstly, I checked out the website for SignalCable, but it doesn't give lengths on the cables for sale. Classic Single Wire is $69 per pair, terminated, but what is the length? I figure I'll look into getting the IXOS Gamma or SignalCable wire.

Next, all the speakers I've picked up have 5 way binding posts. Is there a commonly accepted 'best' among bare wire, pin connectors, spade connectors, banana plugs, or dual banana plugs?

[dorokusai]

It is for a 6' length, and it's on the "More Info" page.

SC is an excellent choice, and Club Polk members get 5% off. It essentially means Free shipping via FedEx Ground/UPS Ground.

I would go SC Double Run personally, but go with what you feel is best.

I would also suggest banana terminations, as it is an easy plug and play type termination. I like spades on my amp, and bananas on my speakers. No real reason behind the choice, just personal.

SC doesn't offer dual banana plug assemblies, one piece type...although he CAN make them for you.....but you should't get them anyways.

Manufacturers vary in their binding post selection, and if you get a pre-made cable w/ solid end terminations....you are going to create a problem eventually.

[O'Shag]

Bonham,

A conservative approach is wise when spending your money on speaker cables. Incidentally, interconnects are more suceptible to interference unless they are the balanced type. Speaker cables, if made properly and well-shielded, are not suceptible to external intereference.

For my own use, I use the QED Silver Anniversary cable, which does a good job, but there are several other brands that will do as good a job. If I were to suggest a spending limit, I would say you could purchase a good set of 10'-15' cables for $200.00 or less.

Remember, all that extra money you save on cables, could buy you your next quality component.

[Bonham]

Ok... still tinkering with what I will do in the end.

A question about the Yahama's. The RX-V2400 and the RX-V3300. The 3300 has two 25W x 2 outputs... these wouldn't do me much good with a pair of FXi3's I'm thinking, does Yamaha make some smaller front effect speakers that you's use with these?

Anyhow, I have two co-workers with Yamaha's and they both speak highly of them. One of the two also used H/K's and, while they were ok, he likes the Yamaha much more.

Since I've budgeted for $2k and the 2400 is only $1k retail (I suspect I could find it cheaper) that would give me money for extra power if needed..

[Tour2ma]

Yes, I believe that Yammie is now up to 9.1 as their standard AVR design. 25 wpc sounds about right for their front ambience.

IMO.. If you've budgeted $2400 for an AVR, there's a lot of ways I'd go before I lay a chunk out for a Yammie AVR. If looking new, Outlaw immediately comes to mind... If open to used... whole new ballgame.

Couple questions:
- Have you auditioned the Yammie's ambience effects? Many grow tired of them...
- have you heard the Yammie with your polks? Not likely as the new Mon's are barely out. Some electronics do not mesh well with some speaker brands/ lines... Your friends nirvana may be your audio hell...

... and in case you are wondering, I was a proud Yamaha owner for many years (still have all the units)... speakers, pre-amp (C-2), cassette deck... I still have fond memories of the speakers and will resurrect them (re-foam job). Can't say the same for the Pre as my original B&K was such a step up it was pseudo-jaw-dropping... turned out I was missing a bunch o' music for a bunch o' years...

Of course your results may vary...