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  1. #1

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    Default Shopping receivers in roughly the $1500 range.

    Ok, I mentioned this elsewhere posting about speaker wire, but I figured I'd just open up this question there.

    I'm looking to pick up a receiver for my set of Polk's (Monitor 70s, CS2, PSW12, FXi3s) . My top limit is going to be $2000 I figure... less being better obviously, but not at the sacrifice of sound/performance.

    I've been looking hard at the Harmon Kardon DPR 2005 and AVR 7300. I'm leaning towards the DPR... I've got opinions going both ways on those. I've looked at the Denon AVR-4802R. The Marantz seem to be popular from what I've seen. But I know little about the newest electronics these days.

    I'm looking long term. I'm probably going to keep this thing a long, long time (my last audio setup is late 80's Fisher seperates and some enormous Tech' speakers which were handed down to my brother).

    Basically, I'd like to get a minimum of 100 watts per channel as I'm not planning on adding power at this time, 7.1 surround, a good selection of DACs, obviously the best selection of sound formats possible, and I'd like to find a true digital (like the DPR 2005) if possible... but if this is never really going to make a noticable sound difference in my lifetime I'm not opposed to skipping that feature.

    So... the floodgate is open.

    What's your opinion on the "best" and why?
    Just... Bonham

    Hitachi 52" Rear Proj' HDTV: 51XWX20B
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    Polk PSW12 Sub
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  2. #2

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    For the price range you are looking at, have you thought about separates?

    A good place to start is www.outlawaudio.com

    You can get their 950 preamp for $799 and a 7100 7 channel amplifier for $899. I just looked and you can the 950 and 7100 together for $1598. They will often have refurbished(B stock) stuff for even cheaper.

    Good luck with your new system.
    Last edited by okiepolkie; 10-07-2004 at 12:15 PM.

  3. #3

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    Are you set on a receiver? What's your listening habits ie.: music vs. surround?
    SDA-2a, Anthem Pre-2L, Anthem Amp 1, MF A324 DAC, Rotel RCD1070

    Senn HD650 Cardas, Mapletree Audio Ear+ HD2, Kimber KS1030, Bel Canto DAC2, M-Audio Transit, Laptop.

  4. #4

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    Default

    Heh, well... I was thinking of taking the easy way out. Select one piece to do it all. I didn't want to get complicated and keep it to a relatively easy system to setup. I also suspect separates is going to increase my cable costs. However, I'm one of those who believe if you're going to spend a lot, spend it on the best you can afford. So I'm not against separates. I just don't know much about audio equipment these days and I know that that might complicate it more.

    My listening habits are really going to be a 50/50 split in my opinion. I do listen to music a lot (more then watching movies), and it's a mix of Heavy Metal/Rock and Classical, however this is 'the' home theater that my group of friends tends to hang out in front of when watching movies, so that's important too.
    Just... Bonham

    Hitachi 52" Rear Proj' HDTV: 51XWX20B
    Comcast Motorola HD/DVR Cable Box; DCT6214/2005
    Sony Prog' Scan DVD; NS752P
    Harman Kardon AVR 7300 Receiver
    Harmony 659 Universal Remote
    Polk Monitor 70 Front Mains
    Polk CS2 Center
    Polk PSW12 Sub
    Polk FXi3 Surrounds

  5. #5

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    Stick around, ask questions, search the forums. You'll get some great advice here. :)

    The reason I ask about your listening habits is because I went down the receiver route assuming it was the way I wanted to go. I listen to music around 90% of the time. After roughly a year with my receiver I purchased an integrated amp at the same price as my receiver and the integrated is far superior in sound quality. If I had to do everything over again I'd start with a good 2 channel setup and build on it, but that's a personal choice. There are many ways to build a system.

    Cables are important but you do not need to go ultra expensive right away. It's an area you can definitely build on when the funds allow you to.

    Do you already have a receiver? If you do, does it have preouts?
    SDA-2a, Anthem Pre-2L, Anthem Amp 1, MF A324 DAC, Rotel RCD1070

    Senn HD650 Cardas, Mapletree Audio Ear+ HD2, Kimber KS1030, Bel Canto DAC2, M-Audio Transit, Laptop.

  6. #6

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    Default Put the $ where it counts

    Hi Bonham,
    For your budget, I would highly recommend sperates. In my opinion, it costs a lot more $ to make music sound good than it does for movies. I highly recommend Outlaw products, or even visiting Audiogon.com to check out some used gear.

    If you are thinking long term, then get the best amp section you can in your budget. HT preamp technology changes every day, but good ole 2 channel and amps will be here for longer than we think, even with the hoopla about multichannel music. I think that you will be happier with a seperates system for long term, then just replace certain components when they no longer meet your needs.

    The receiver (high end-onkyo) I bought when I started out eventually became a paperweight and then was given away eventually.
    Good Luck,
    Jeremy
    Let me tell you something about life, around every corner monsters await. I know, I am one.

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    Mains: Anthony Gallo Reference 3.1
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  7. #7

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    If you're set on a receiver instead of separates, the Denon 3805 has been getting rave reviews for around $1200.

  8. #8

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    Go with separates. Definitely.
    HT/2-channel Rig: Sony 50 LCD TV; Toshiba HD-A2 DVD player; Emotiva LMC-1 pre/pro; Rogue Audio M-120 monoblocks (modded); Placette RVC; Emotiva LPA-1 amp; Bada HD-22 tube CDP (modded); VMPS Tower II SE (fronts); DIY Clearwave Dynamic 4CC (center); Wharfedale Opus Tri-Surrounds (rear); and VMPS 215 sub

    "God grooves with tubes."

  9. #9

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    An advantage of separates that hasn't been mentioned yet is upgradability. If you buy a receiver and a new decoding technology comes out two years from now, you'd have to replace the whole receiver to get that new tech, while with separates you'd only have to replace the preamp...don't think anything is going to change with amps in the near future, so that's a piece you'd have permanently.

    Also, make sure you do you research on the digital amps before buying. I don't like the DPR stuff, but that's just my opinion...just make sure you fully understand what you're getting.

    For the price range you're in, I'd definitely take a look at the Outlaw stuff.
    Main HT
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  10. #10

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    By the way, out of the receivers you mentioned, either the 7300 or 4802 would be a great choice, you may also want to look at the Denon 3805 as it's a bit cheaper and would work nicely for your application...
    Main HT
    Magnepan 1.6QR fronts, POlk R15 surrounds, Pioneer SC-25, Parasound Halo A23, Oppo BDP-105, Panasonic TC-P60ZT60, Sony PS3, Apple TV

    Bedroom System
    Polk Blackstone TL3, Polk PSWi225 Wireless Sub, HK 3490 Integrated, Oppo BDP-103, Sharp Aquos 32" TV, Apple TV

    Office Rig
    27" iMac w/Amarra, AudioQuest Dragonfly 1.2, Focal XS Book, Schiit Valhalla, Cypher Labs Theorem 720, Philips Fidelio X1, Sennheiser HD600, HiFiMan HE-500, B&W P7, LG 47LM7600, Sony PS3, Apple TV

  11. #11

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    NAD T773 receiver. Frankly, most people here would be hard pressed to tell a difference between it and 200 watt per channel seperates.

  12. #12

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    You know... I do see a deal on the Outlaw site for the 950 pre-amp, 7100 power amp and a LFM-1 sub for basically $2k. It would give me a second powerful sub for my top end budget. I almost wonder if that sub would be a bit over the top for the rest the speakers! Still the 950 and 7100 for essentially $1700 would leave me enough to pick up a second CS2 for a center rear too...

    Is there anyplace to pick these up new other then their own website?
    Just... Bonham

    Hitachi 52" Rear Proj' HDTV: 51XWX20B
    Comcast Motorola HD/DVR Cable Box; DCT6214/2005
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    Harmony 659 Universal Remote
    Polk Monitor 70 Front Mains
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    Polk FXi3 Surrounds

  13. #13

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    Originally posted by Bonham


    Is there anyplace to pick these up new other then their own website?
    Web only and buy with confidence. I have the 770 and it was worth every pennie. With a 30 day no risk you have nothing to lose and IMHO you should really consider the Outlaw as your first choice.

    h
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  14. #14

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    Ok, potentially dangerous question....

    I seen high praise for the 950/770 combo, which would put me slightly over my given budget, but not by much. However, that's an amp that puts out 200wpc... considering my old equipment is bordering on antique (20 years counts right?) - meaning I'm not going to assume I know what's appropriate these days - what's the most I'd want to put through, say, a set of FXi3's that are rated to 150? I suspect I might be better off going a bit cheaper on the amp?
    Just... Bonham

    Hitachi 52" Rear Proj' HDTV: 51XWX20B
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    Polk CS2 Center
    Polk PSW12 Sub
    Polk FXi3 Surrounds

  15. #15

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    It's better to have too much power than too little.

  16. #16

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    Indeed, more speakers are damaged by over-driving underpowered amps then vice-versa.

  17. #17

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    I agree with marker if a reciever is really the route you want to take. I own a NAD T763 which I use as a reciever for multi-channel home theater and as a pre-amp for 2 channel (I have a Rotel Amp powering the two mains). Even if your using the reciever by itself, it will still give you superior sound over many recievers in the same price range. NAD rocks.

  18. #18

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    Another nice receiver in your price range would be the Rotel 1067. 7 channels of amplification. Built like a tank. I was just about to get it when my eye spotted the 1068/1075 combo. Hello seperates. However, the dif. in sound quality between the 1067 and 1068/1075 was pretty close. In the end I went with the seperates. The 1067 does have great audiophile sound.

  19. #19

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    Originally posted by Bonham
    I suspect I might be better off going a bit cheaper on the amp?
    You can never go wrong with a bigger amp but I mentioned the 770 only to convey my experience with the company. The 770 is awesome but the 771 would definetly fit your needs.

    HBomb
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  20. #20

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    you may also want to check out the B&K Reference 50 pre amp. I heard this recently.. and really liked it's features.

    I might even been lowered in price now. that the next generation is coming out any day now. I think the Ref 50 is about $1,400 right now.
    PolkFest 2012, who's going>?
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  21. #21

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    More wattage doesn't relate into a better sound. There are many 100w amps cost more than 200w amps. Bigger is not better but better is bigger.:p You pay for the quality not the quantity but you get what you pay for!

    As far as amps are concerned you also have a multi-amp options. You can always buy a 2-ch amp and later add 5-ch or just go straight 7-channel. You can also buy 3 mono-blocks and use the the receiver amps for the surrounds. Normally in HT the fronts and center are used more than anything else. The surrounds doesn't need too much power compared to the the fronts and center channels, unless you're into multi-channel music for e.g., DVD-A or SACD. Also when you run your speakers at small settings in HT lot of power is not a big issue unless you're pushing amp hard driving your speakers to ear-bleeding levels. Your sub will push the air better than your speakers if you want deep loud bass. You may want to consider spending on a quality sub if you love bass as well.

    Also remember some newer receivers do sound better than lot of entry-level processors and the price is sometimes half of the processors. You can always use the pre-outs from the receiver and use external amps. Outlaw 950 is a great unit but outdated compare to latest receivers. Yamaha, Denon, Marantz, NAD, HK and Pioneer Elite all make quality receivers. The sound quality of these mid-fi receivers may rival some of the entry-level pre/pros and can only be beaten by higher-end pre/pros. Some flagship receivers may sound equal to high-end separates. Separates are best because you've quality, power and options. If you've money go for separates!

    I'm agree with others Outlaw is the way to go if you want the least expensive separate combo. There are many other quality amps from Adcom, NAD, Rotel, etc. and can be used by A/V receiver pre outs!
    :D
    Last edited by hamzahsh; 10-07-2004 at 09:16 PM.
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  22. #22
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    Originally posted by Bonham
    Heh, well... I was thinking of taking the easy way out. Select one piece to do it all. I didn't want to get complicated and keep it to a relatively easy system to setup. I also suspect separates is going to increase my cable costs. However, I'm one of those who believe if you're going to spend a lot, spend it on the best you can afford. So I'm not against separates. I just don't know much about audio equipment these days and I know that that might complicate it more.

    My listening habits are really going to be a 50/50 split in my opinion. I do listen to music a lot (more then watching movies), and it's a mix of Heavy Metal/Rock and Classical, however this is 'the' home theater that my group of friends tends to hang out in front of when watching movies, so that's important too.
    I haven't owned Outlaw stuff, but I just keep hearing wonderful reviews about them... and from people who actually own the stuff. Seperates would be better IMO. As someone else mentioned, you have the easy upgrade option in the future instead of having the get rid of the entire front end of the system.

    Cables are cheap relatively speaking. Spend more money on the equipment and worry about the cables as a secondary thing. If you're not an expert listener, then you can take a really cheap route. Why spend lots more money on high end cables if you won't hear a difference?? :)

    The more power aspect is nice also. Some movies/music need dynamics, so you'll need to have extra power on reserve to correctly play those peaks. Most receivers don't put out too much power, so the seperate amps generally win out in this category. But heck, if you listen to any music that has been produced within the past 5 years, there is no such thing as "dynamics"! Its all about having all of the instruments cranked up to 11 and having your music play louder than the other record company's music... if you want to call it music :)

  23. #23

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    Harman Kardon AVR2005. Unbelievable sound from digital sources, and it delivers a true 120+ watts x 7 @ 8 ohms and over 200 watts @ 4 ohms!

  24. #24

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    Heh... most the heavy metal/rock I listen to is older then 5 years. I've liked a few of their songs here and there since, but I wouldn't buy any of the Metallica albums put out after the 'black' album for example. There's not a lot of music made in the last 10 years I've spent my money on in rock. There are very few new real rock bands that are decent these days.

    For classical, I listen to all the composers... of course being a metalhead it tends to be the louder and faster stuff the majority of the time. Some of the movie soundtracks are amazing (Conan the Barbarian and the 13th Warrior for example). There's a lot of rock I like of course, but the groups I own the most CD's from are Rush, Van Halen, Queensryche, Metallica, AC/DC, Yngwie Malmsteen, Pink Floyd, Eagles, Dire Straights, Stevie Ray Vaughan, Ozzy... pretty much a good range from the 70's to the early 90's, then a few things since then.

    So, the classical would benefit from better quality sound of course... and rock probably the; Bolt down the furniture and annoy the neighbors kind of power. :D I've been wondering if I'll need a more powerful sub... but I'll wait and see how the PSW12 sounds first.

    Oh... and one question that is actually making me consider some of the receivers over separates (like the H/K's) is the ability to automatically calibrate the speakers. It sounds rather appealing to be able to whip out a mic, push a button, and have your tuning done in a few minutes. Do any of the separates do this???
    Last edited by Bonham; 10-08-2004 at 10:55 PM.
    Just... Bonham

    Hitachi 52" Rear Proj' HDTV: 51XWX20B
    Comcast Motorola HD/DVR Cable Box; DCT6214/2005
    Sony Prog' Scan DVD; NS752P
    Harman Kardon AVR 7300 Receiver
    Harmony 659 Universal Remote
    Polk Monitor 70 Front Mains
    Polk CS2 Center
    Polk PSW12 Sub
    Polk FXi3 Surrounds

  25. #25

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    Bonham, no Led Zeppelin :D

    I do agree with you 100% on the last 10 years of music and Metallica. It's a shame. I'm only 23 and I probably only have 5 CDs that are newer than 1998 like Tool, A Perfect Circle, Taproot (Welcome, prob my fav CD in the last 10 years) etc...Everything else people are putting out sucks, and listening to the "rock" stations makes me want to vomit, projectile! :D

  26. #26

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    Cables are cheap relatively speaking. Spend more money on the equipment and worry about the cables as a secondary thing. If you're not an expert listener, then you can take a really cheap route. Why spend lots more money on high end cables if you won't hear a difference??
    Cables are just as important as the compoents. I recently changed out my interconnects on my HT system to Audioquest Copperheads. There was an astounding difference. If you have a cheap system, buy cheap cables, but if you want to really get the best sound, especially from separates, buy good quality cables. You can find deals on interconnects, esp. used ones, all over the Internet (ebay, audiogon, videogon, Polk Forum Flea Market, etc.).
    HT/2-channel Rig: Sony 50 LCD TV; Toshiba HD-A2 DVD player; Emotiva LMC-1 pre/pro; Rogue Audio M-120 monoblocks (modded); Placette RVC; Emotiva LPA-1 amp; Bada HD-22 tube CDP (modded); VMPS Tower II SE (fronts); DIY Clearwave Dynamic 4CC (center); Wharfedale Opus Tri-Surrounds (rear); and VMPS 215 sub

    "God grooves with tubes."

  27. #27

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    Well of course Led Zeppelin! It's actually one of the semi-perminent CD's in my cars changer.

    Well... after a lot of looking around, comparisons, etc... I think I'm going to either go with Outlaw if I go seperates and Harmon Kardon if I go a single unit receiver. I've heard a little too much negative feedback on the DPR2005 and Ken Swauger said between the two he'd probably go with the AVR7300 himself. Considering I've got a full set of Polk's I'm going to put some heavy weight into his opinion regardless.

    So I guess the question I have to answer for myself is... a high end H/K receiver or entry level separates in the Outlaws? I'm by no means an expert, but I suspect I'd be fairly happy with either (especially since there's a $300 Panasonic shelf stereo sitting on top of my TV right now! ).

    The one piece H/K and the EZSet, although I've seen some so-so feedback on it's accuracy, is appealing and I really doubt I'm going to be spending any more on my HT once I get the receiver and cables/speaker wire, so I highly doubt separates are going to be upgraded in the next 10 years even if I do get them (which means far better stuff will be out by then and I'd likely just start completely over).


    On the other hand, I hear nothing but praise for Outlaw equipment. It would be easier to do upgrade if I decided to. Tuning everything isn't that big a deal in the end... but I'm just wondering if I'm really going to hear a big difference between a H/K AVR 7300 and an Outlaw 950/7100 combo.
    Just... Bonham

    Hitachi 52" Rear Proj' HDTV: 51XWX20B
    Comcast Motorola HD/DVR Cable Box; DCT6214/2005
    Sony Prog' Scan DVD; NS752P
    Harman Kardon AVR 7300 Receiver
    Harmony 659 Universal Remote
    Polk Monitor 70 Front Mains
    Polk CS2 Center
    Polk PSW12 Sub
    Polk FXi3 Surrounds

  28. #28

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    Check out http://www.audioholics.com

    They have reviews on most popular products. They don't pull any punches either.

  29. #29

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    I would definitely go Outlaw over any receiver. 1) I've heard nothin' but praise, 2) I'm lookin' at 'em and I want you to get them & tell me what you think. :D

    Seriously, though, the Outlaws do seem to be really great stuff. I wouldn't put much stock in any auto-calibrating system, though.

    Good luck.
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