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  1. #1

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    Default Monitor 10B Modifications?

    I just picked up a nice set of Monitor 10B's for an experiment. I want to use these to augment the bass and lower mid-range for a set of Magnepan's, either the MMG's or the 1.6's. Based on some other similar set-ups I have listened to, this gives you the spacial characteristics and open upper-end of the Maggies, with the solid mid-range and lower thump of the Polks. I used to run a set of JBL L100's with the tweeters unhooked with a set of Magnepan Tympani's way back before sub-woofers were readily available, and loved it! Not really sure why I got rid of that set-up, but I'm sure I don't have to explain the decision to this audience:-)

    Now for the main ? Do I need to put a good quality resistor across the leads to the tweeter when I unhook it? I don't want to ruin the cross-overs. Does anyone know what value of resistor I should use, or should I ask Ken @ Polk? On my JBL's I just unhooked the speaker wires, but the old JBL's were built like a tank, and I was younger and didn't care about these types of issues!
    DKG999
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    Music System: Magnepan 1.6QR, SVS SB12+, ARC pre, Parasound HCA1500 vertically bi-amped, Jolida CDP, Pro-Ject RM5.1SE TT, Pro-Ject TubeBox SE phono pre, SBT, PS Audio DLIII DAC

  2. #2

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    It sounds like you should get a subwoofer, and stop wasting your time with full range "experimentation". If you need to "augment" the midrange of a Maggie, then you should sell them, because your not doing something correctly.
    Last edited by dorokusai; 12-20-2004 at 01:05 AM.

  3. #3

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    I would totally agree with you on the larger Maggies. And with the 1.6's a good sub might be all that is required. For the MMG's and 12's the lower mid-range and bass lack a lot of the punch when listening to rock music at lower volumes. I have heard a couple of set-ups with the MMG's combined with large Advents that are really nice. Maybe this will work, maybe it won't! For the $200 invested in a set of mint 10B's with stands, it's lots cheaper than a good sub-woofer and the 10B's have always had pretty good low-end for listening to rock music. If it doesn't work I have a nice set of 10B's to either keep or sell, and I have a couple of HSU STF-2's that I bought at a storage unit auction that are a little dirty, but otherwise seem to work OK, that I can play with. I was going to resell them to a friend that is starting to build a HT system, but maybe I'll hang on to them for a while.
    DKG999
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    HT System: LSi9, LSiCx2, LSiFX, LSi7, SVS 20-39 PC+, B&K 507.s2 AVR, B&K Ref 125.2, Tripplite LCR-2400, Cambridge 650BD, Signal Cable PC/SC, BJC IC, Samsung 55" LED

    Music System: Magnepan 1.6QR, SVS SB12+, ARC pre, Parasound HCA1500 vertically bi-amped, Jolida CDP, Pro-Ject RM5.1SE TT, Pro-Ject TubeBox SE phono pre, SBT, PS Audio DLIII DAC

  4. #4

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    I would find it strange to even own a speaker that needed help from my Polks to boost any midrange or low end. Midrange being the most audible of the overall sound. Sounds like you don't need those speakers because your Polks would be doing the job perfect by themselfs. I take it the Mags totally make up for it in the high feq? With the Polks doing all of the sound, the Mags would be helping the Polks instead of the Polks helping the Mags.
    I wish you good luck in your venture!

  5. #5

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    PolkFreak - thanks for the tips! I have a set of Maggie MGIIB's and a set of MMG's that friends have and are not using and we're going to do some experimenting while I am back at my house in IA over the Christmas and New Years holidays!

    Have a Merry Christmas!
    DKG999
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    HT System: LSi9, LSiCx2, LSiFX, LSi7, SVS 20-39 PC+, B&K 507.s2 AVR, B&K Ref 125.2, Tripplite LCR-2400, Cambridge 650BD, Signal Cable PC/SC, BJC IC, Samsung 55" LED

    Music System: Magnepan 1.6QR, SVS SB12+, ARC pre, Parasound HCA1500 vertically bi-amped, Jolida CDP, Pro-Ject RM5.1SE TT, Pro-Ject TubeBox SE phono pre, SBT, PS Audio DLIII DAC

  6. #6

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    Question

    Huh?

    WTF are you guys talking about?

    The ONLY thing that the MMG's lack is below 50hz or so. Farther up the FR and, pardon my french, but you are off your rocker or the ones you are listening to are broken.

    Wire is most likely NOT the reason that your speakers are bottoming out. In fact, I'd almost say that it was impossible.

    I disagree with the whole polyfill issue too.

    BDT
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  7. #7

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    I'm certainly not about to tear open either pair of my M10's, that's for sure.

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    Polkfreak - I spend part of the month in Northern Illinois for my job, and part of the month back on my farm in Central Iowa. I'm real familier with the Clear Lake area.

    Doro - the problem with the Maggies isn't their FR, it's that the highs and upper mid-range is open and spacious, while the lower mid-range and bass is best described as pretty sterile. It's there, but it doesn't have a lot behind it. Polk used to make a PR that was used to supplement the Maggies for bass and upper mid-range. I know someone that has a set of the Polk PR's as part of his Magnepan setup, and it makes a world of difference. The Polk passive bass units look almost exactly like a Monitor 10 box with the tweeter section cut off and the SDA PR substituted for the Monitor 10 woofer. I was thinking that by using one of the smaller Magnepan speakers (MMG, 12, or 1.6) and a set of Monitor 10's with the M10 tweeter disconnected, maybe I could get the same effect. Something to play around with, I'll let you know how it worked.
    DKG999
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    HT System: LSi9, LSiCx2, LSiFX, LSi7, SVS 20-39 PC+, B&K 507.s2 AVR, B&K Ref 125.2, Tripplite LCR-2400, Cambridge 650BD, Signal Cable PC/SC, BJC IC, Samsung 55" LED

    Music System: Magnepan 1.6QR, SVS SB12+, ARC pre, Parasound HCA1500 vertically bi-amped, Jolida CDP, Pro-Ject RM5.1SE TT, Pro-Ject TubeBox SE phono pre, SBT, PS Audio DLIII DAC

  9. #9

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    I see other forum members overreact when it come to things out of their line of thinking. If I see someone make a mistake I don't judge them for it. Nor do I make snide comments. So to anyone like that, take it easy man. We are all human.:D

  10. #10

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    I'm of the belief that if your run of wire is less than, oh, 15 feet or so, the guage is irrelevant. In fact, most speakers (and some fairly high tone ones) all are wired with small guage wire.

    While I believe that wire can and will make a difference in sound quality, I don't believe that it will give you any great (in fact, I'd say virtually no) change in overall frequency response. If you are bottoming out drivers, your issue isn't wire. Period. I, like F1, have a pair of 2.3tl's and have run them pretty hard and have never heard them bottom out. Not to mention that at the moment, I'm using cheapie (I know, I know .....Santa is coming) rat shack 18ga wire.

    I still don't buy the polyfill issue, but, if you dig it, more power to you. It's a subjective hobby, so, by all means - enjoy!

    Far as the maggies go, the MMG's are pretty awesome little speakers. Don't dick around; buy a decent sub and be done with it. THAT would be a killer set up.

    BDT
    I plan for the future. - F1Nut

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    Look, man, no need to get your panties in a wad. I just don't happen to agree.

    In the case of your wire scenario, It doesn't sound like a very controlled experiment. I don't need to be there. Wire isn't going to give your speakers an extra 10hz of FR. Just not going to happen. Does one wire sound different than another? Sure. I do believe in wire, but what you describe is unlikely at best. Your muffler analogy is flawed because in that scenario, one muffler is broken. You are telling me that two runs of wire are giving speakers different frequency response. No, I don't believe it. I'd look at your amplification first. If you'd like, put any type of wire you'd like on my 2.3's and I'll bet you can't bottom them out.

    Far as the polyfill, again, a well damped cabinet is a quiet cabinet. That, IMO, is a good thing. That's why it's in there. I've heard speakers devoid of internal fill, they sound like crap to me. If you don't agree, bully for you. It's a subjective hobby, what you like, I may not and vice versa.

    Relax and enjoy your gear, man.

    BDT
    I plan for the future. - F1Nut

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    As I stated in another thread, your situation with the drivers bottoming out (on one channel only) with the one brand of wire does not make sense, nor is it logical. As subjective as this hobby is there are some things that are so. This is one of them. What does make a driver bottom out is a amp with little damping, that the amp is clipping or there is a problem with the driver(s).
    'Political Correctness'.........defined

    "A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end."

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    dkg999 - I never said anything about MMG's, that was Troy. I am well aware of the LF14, and it's more like a RTA12 than a Mon10.

    Just so there's no confusion from people reading your previous post, it's not just a "PR"....it's as you stated later, a "passive subwoofer". A PR can't do anything without actual drivers.

    Polkfreak - I've enjoyed reading your exploits, but it doesn't hold any weight for me personally. If it "fixed" your problem, then that's great, that's all that matters.

    Case in point, I also had a driver bottoming out....one channel....one speaker....upper right driver....guess what it was? A bad driver, big mystery huh? It functioned, but when pushed to the limits, it bottomed out, simple. Drivers fail in different ways.

    Happy listening!

  14. #14

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    Has anyone seen my baseball?
    Check your lips at the door woman. Shake your hips like battleships. Yeah, all the white girls trip when I sing at Sunday service.

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    Yeah!!! I found it upstairs in a bunch of broken glass you little bastard....
    I smell ass, burning ass, glowing cherry red spanked ass.

    RT1

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    I stand corrected, it was the 2A I was thinking about.

    What are you using for power?
    'Political Correctness'.........defined

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  17. #17

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    Doro - sorry about that. I'm having a little trouble following the multiple story lines in this thread. Almost like a Tom Clancy story!

    I hate to to divert this thread, but can anyone answer my original question? Should I put a resistor across the leads to the tweeter in the Monitor 10's when I disconnect it?

    Please! Answer my question and I will ship you a new baseball!
    DKG999
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    HT System: LSi9, LSiCx2, LSiFX, LSi7, SVS 20-39 PC+, B&K 507.s2 AVR, B&K Ref 125.2, Tripplite LCR-2400, Cambridge 650BD, Signal Cable PC/SC, BJC IC, Samsung 55" LED

    Music System: Magnepan 1.6QR, SVS SB12+, ARC pre, Parasound HCA1500 vertically bi-amped, Jolida CDP, Pro-Ject RM5.1SE TT, Pro-Ject TubeBox SE phono pre, SBT, PS Audio DLIII DAC

  18. #18

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    If you say you replaced your loud muffler and it got quiet I believe you. I don't necessarily belive the old muffler was bad though. Could be when you bolted up the new one you shoved the pipe tight to the exhaust manifold. In this case your loud muffler problem went away when you replaced the muffler but the old muffler was still perfectly good.
    madmax
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    Oh geez, not the muffler again. ;)

    PolkFreak, I quess the bottom line is that you're happy with the end results and that is what matters the most. Enjoy the music.
    'Political Correctness'.........defined

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  20. #20

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    Originally posted by F1nut
    Oh geez, not the muffler again. ;)
    I hate loud mufflers unless they are on loud cars. I like loud cars. Just don't like loud mufflers. :)
    madmax
    Vinyl, the final frontier...

    Avantgarde horns, 300b tubes, thats the kinda crap I want... :D

  21. #21
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    I've never heard a loud muffler in my life. Yes, engines can be loud - especially without a muffler. But, to the best of my knowledge, no muffler has ever made a single noise. Well, I take that back. One of the baffles in a muffler was broken and it rattled and made some noise. I stuffed some polyfill in it (but not too much) and it seemed to help. Then, I decided that if a little is good, more would be better. So, I went all out and really stuffed the polyfill into the muffler. Finally, the engine died. Hmmm. So, i sprayed some starter fluid into the butterfly valve on the carburetor. Afterall, if the engine isn't running, its probably a top-end problem. I thought about augmenting the carburator with a fuel injection system, but decided that would cause the car to be too responsive in the bottom end. So, I disconnected the fuel injectors - but, I put a resistor across the inputs to fool the on-board computer. Afterall, I wouldn't want to blow up the on-board computer. In my younger days, when I disconnected stuff, I didn't worry about it. But, those were old cars made by Japanese Bugs Limited (JBL) and everyone knows how durable those are. But todays hi end car computers... well, I've learned my lesson. So, anyway, I spray the starter fluid into the butterfly valve with the on-board computer shunted with a 5K-ohm resistor and the muffler stuffed with polyfill. I crank up the Yamaha ignition past 12:00 and finally Boom... lots of bottom end. I haven't figured out if it is the polyfill, or the new battery cables that have made a difference on my rig. But, everything is a lot looser now that the exhaust has been properly broken-in. I don't know why you guys can't understand what I am trying to tell you. Jeesh. You are just like my old girlfriend from 3rd grade when she didn't understand that me teasing her meant I liked her. Anyway, I took the left-over polyfill from the Monitor 10's and stuffed a turkey with it for Christmas Dinner.

  22. #22

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    rskarvan - you're good! Thank You! Where do you want your baseball shipped to?
    DKG999
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    HT System: LSi9, LSiCx2, LSiFX, LSi7, SVS 20-39 PC+, B&K 507.s2 AVR, B&K Ref 125.2, Tripplite LCR-2400, Cambridge 650BD, Signal Cable PC/SC, BJC IC, Samsung 55" LED

    Music System: Magnepan 1.6QR, SVS SB12+, ARC pre, Parasound HCA1500 vertically bi-amped, Jolida CDP, Pro-Ject RM5.1SE TT, Pro-Ject TubeBox SE phono pre, SBT, PS Audio DLIII DAC

  23. #23
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    Just send the baseball back to Russman. Thank you for the appreciation of my commentary.

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