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  1. #1

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    Question Recommended Amp for Loud Volume

    I have a set of R30 floorstanding speakers.

    Right now I have a cheap 100W Sony amp , for a good volume in action movies I have to turn the volume knob up past half, which I don't like to do, due to clipping / speaker damage.

    For some background on me, I have a set of klipsch reference speakers and modded dynaco st-70, so I'm not a n00b. :)

    I've been looking at a bigger amp, I realise the denon, h/k, onkyo, have much higher current than a cheapo sony.

    I know sound fidelity / soundstage will be much better with a higher end unit. My question is how many high current watts do I need to equal 100 sony watts? I want a more powerful amp so I can crank the speakers to the same volume with less chance of blowing them. I'm already planning on moving my couch closer to them, that is an easy fix.

  2. #2

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    It's nowhere near that simple, but if you want ballpark, I'd say an 80 watt onkyo, dennon, yamaha, h/k, etc is going to be about equivalent to a cheap 100 watt sony in terms of volume at a given level of distortion. Anyone else want to weigh in?

  3. #3

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    Off the top -

    I would think you will get better sound from most 80watt actual amplifiers (thanks to the higher current capability).

    To get more output (if you want to listen louder than you do now) I would step up to 200 watt/channel min. (will not be "oh my god" louder, but it will give you alot more headroom than you have now.)
    Mains.............Polk LSi15 (Cherry)
    Center............Polk LSiC (Crossover upgraded)
    Surrounds.......Polk LSi7 (Gloss Black - wood sides removed and crossovers upgraded)
    Subwoofers.....SVS 25-31 CS+ and PC+ (both 20hz tune)
    Pre\Pro...........NAD T163 (Modded with LM4562 opamps)
    Amplifier.........Cinepro 3k6 (6-channel, 500wpc@4ohms)

  4. #4

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    whats your budget?
    SDA 2B
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  5. #5

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    Look for a high damping factor more than wattage for your application. A high damping factor allows precise control of the cones even at lower volumes. In general, amps with discrete output stages and similar wattage will have better damping. ICs have a lot of protection circuitry which limits damping.

  6. #6

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    I want to keep it around $500 dollars or so. This 100w onkyo tx-sr-702 looks to be the best value / high quality watts I can find.
    http://www.onkyousa.com/model.cfm?m=...class=Receiver

    Denon, Yamaha, H/K are all much more expensive. Any other brands you can recommend for my price range? I don't need 7.1; Just a good 5.1.

    A 200 Watt amp would be sweet, and would last forever, but unfortunately thats not in the budget. I did price some adcoms and rotels, but that would require a seperate processor, etc.

    I wish manufacturers would put a clip limiting switch on the back, to keep clipping from going over 5%. That would be nice.

    Thanks for the help guys.

  7. #7

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    Originally posted by p0wd3rmnky
    I want to keep it around $500 dollars or so.

    A 200 Watt amp would be sweet, and would last forever, but unfortunately thats not in the budget. I did price some adcoms and rotels, but that would require a seperate processor, etc.
    I assume from this comment that your sony does not have Pre-outs for all the channels.

    My thought was to get a decent 2 or 3 channel amp (used) and run your front speakers on it. You could then use the sony to power your rear speakers. (since the rears don't really demand that much power (compared to the fronts))

    If you do need to get another reciever, I would make sure you get one with pre-amp outputs for all channels (even if it is a lateral move power wise). This will give you a better upgrade path in the future to add more power.

    I am not sure what the efficiency is of the speakers you are currently running, but you might also look at getting speakers with a higer efficiency. Getting speakers with 93db efficiency over 87db efficiency would be similar to (volume wise) going from a 50 to 200 watt amplifier. I could be off a little on my math, but I think that is correct - just a thought anyway.

    good luck on your upgrade and let us know how it goes (if you are happy with the upgrade for the money spent and if you would do it again.) - You never know who you will help that kind of information.

    Michael
    Mains.............Polk LSi15 (Cherry)
    Center............Polk LSiC (Crossover upgraded)
    Surrounds.......Polk LSi7 (Gloss Black - wood sides removed and crossovers upgraded)
    Subwoofers.....SVS 25-31 CS+ and PC+ (both 20hz tune)
    Pre\Pro...........NAD T163 (Modded with LM4562 opamps)
    Amplifier.........Cinepro 3k6 (6-channel, 500wpc@4ohms)

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    I would not buy a 500 dollar new receiver. NAD is one company that offers "soft clipping" on their products if you want that. How about a used receiver off of Audiogon?

    Should be able to find one for around 500.00, if you check and watch for it. Just a different option to consider.

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  9. #9

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    I think the Onkyo 702 is an excellent choice. I had the 701 before I upgraded to B&K (which is so phenomenally better I can't begin to describe it-but obviously way outside your budget). Of course, I was running RTi speakers off the Onk, but I found the sound was very good, and could go to reasonably loud levels without sounding too compressed or shrill. I think the 702 would be a better receiver than the Sony, and should go as loud as you would need in a moderate sized room. Honestly, I would not spend more than that to run the R speakers. No offense, but why buy top of the line receivers to run bottom of the line speakers?
    Make sure you buy the Onk from www.onecall.com/ They will have the best price for a new unit. They sell new 702's for $580.00
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  10. #10

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    The reason I got the r30's, is because I got them for $130 for the pair. I may sell them later, to upgrade. I also purchased a csi40 for $150.00.

    I haven't purchased the rear speakers yet, how much sound do they put out, Should I expect a decent increase in volume with those added?

    My sony does not have preamp outs.
    My sony only supports the original Dolby Prologic (no DTS or Dolby Digital). It doesn't even have a digital input (coax or optical). My dvd player is connected to my reciever via 2 rca cables, just like a cd player uses. I think that is my problem. When I run a dvd on 2ch mode, and turn off prologic, so i'm only running my front 2 speakers, the volume increases.
    When I switch the dvd player to dolby digital, and activate prologic on the reciever, the volume goes down (even now that the center speaker is active).

    I understand the difference between prologic and digital. I'm hoping that when I get an amp that supports dolby digital, even with similar power output, the signal will be louder since each speaker know what to do with the signal. Instead of the amp trying to figure out what to feed the speaker.

  11. #11

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    I priced the refurbished onkyo tx-sr702 and Denon AVR-2105. (the denon is 50 more bucks). The new onkyo costs much more ($580 VS $390). The two amps are almost identical, besides the fact that the onkyo is THX certified. I'm not sure that does much for me, not many movies have THX Select soundtrack, and i'm sure alot of the cost comes from thx liscnesing fees.

    I was preferring the onkyo, because it has 100 watts, versus the denons 90 watts. The 10 extra watts the onkyo has would give me .7 db louder!


    spk eff Watts
    89 1
    92 2
    95 4
    98 8
    101 16
    104 32
    107 64
    110 128
    -----------------------------------
    107 64
    108 90w
    108.5 96w
    108.7 100w
    110 128

    96w is half way between 64 & 128, so it's number is correct.
    I guessed for the 90 & 100 watt figures.

    For an extra .7 db, I think I would rather pay 50 more bucks and have a new product, that I don't have to worry about.

  12. #12

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    Originally posted by p0wd3rmnky
    I want to keep it around $500 dollars or so.
    I don't know how you feel about used, but this is right up your alley for what you are looking for.....

    New Denon 2805

    Michael
    Mains.............Polk LSi15 (Cherry)
    Center............Polk LSiC (Crossover upgraded)
    Surrounds.......Polk LSi7 (Gloss Black - wood sides removed and crossovers upgraded)
    Subwoofers.....SVS 25-31 CS+ and PC+ (both 20hz tune)
    Pre\Pro...........NAD T163 (Modded with LM4562 opamps)
    Amplifier.........Cinepro 3k6 (6-channel, 500wpc@4ohms)

  13. #13

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    What do you consider a cheap sony I have Str-de 985 out on my lani(this is out side of the house) the backside of the Polk 2.3 sda are about 1ft. from glass slideing doors and approx. 6.5 ft. appart, the ceiling is 7ft.high smoked plexiglass, and the three sides are screened in. the back side is up slope jungle, so the sound is absorbed by the foliage, as I crank it up there is some clipping, I would like to get an amp some day, and the Sony would be a good pre amp, anyway this set up has a pretty sound stage but room for improvement any sugestions would be appreciated. Aloha, Warren
    Some final words,
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    you're going to have headaches."
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  14. #14

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    that denon was nice, but someone had already bought it when I saw the link, *shrug*

    I bought my sony before DVDs were invented. No dvd source input, no coax or optical inputs, the only surround mode is prologic. I want to say around 12 years old :P I bought it in 6th grade, it was awesome back then.

  15. #15

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    I'll sell you my 9 month old Onkyo 701. It is in perfect shape. I want a 702

  16. #16

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    Sorry just bought http://www.hookedontronics.com/show_...1014TX-K+Black
    Pioneer VSX-1014TX-K Black 7.1 Digital A/V Receiver 120WX7 for $320

    On avs they say its a rebadged pioneer elite, got the same powersupply and discrete channels of the $1000 elite amp :)

    http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...hreadid=480085

    http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...hreadid=445848

    this is where I bought it from
    http://www.hookedontronics.com/show_...1014TX-K+Black

  17. #17

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    Originally posted by warren
    What do you consider a cheap sony I have Str-de 985 out on my lani(this is out side of the house) the backside of the Polk 2.3 sda are about 1ft. from glass slideing doors and approx. 6.5 ft. appart, the ceiling is 7ft.high smoked plexiglass, and the three sides are screened in. the back side is up slope jungle, so the sound is absorbed by the foliage, as I crank it up there is some clipping, I would like to get an amp some day, and the Sony would be a good pre amp, anyway this set up has a pretty sound stage but room for improvement any sugestions would be appreciated. Aloha, Warren
    Warren,

    If you are clipping the Sony, turn it down. IMO, if you fry the amp, no big deal but damaging the SDA's would be sacrilege! ;)

    If I'm not mistaken, I don't think that your sony has pre-outs, check as I might be mistaken. Either way, I'd ditch the sony and look for a decent (used) preamp and power amp.

    Welcome to the forum!

    BDT
    I plan for the future. - F1Nut

  18. #18

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    i put a 500 wats on a set of r10 i filled a spave the size of a gym with it we dident much low end do to echo and had to atunate it but it performed well
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  19. #19

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    Thanks BDT, the Sony dose have pre outs maybe I could use it for a pre amp. now what kind amp would work with those fine speakers? Would appreciate any advice. Aloha, Warren
    Some final words,
    "If you keep banging your head against the wall,
    you're going to have headaches."
    Warren

  20. #20

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    Do a search, dude.

    Lots of good options out there......there are those that think that SDA and Carver are a great match (I do too) but there are so many good amps: Parasound, NAD, Rotel etc etc.....

    Plus, a good 2ch preamp need not be expensive. Check out the flea market, Russ has two very good ones on there for cheap.

    BDT
    I plan for the future. - F1Nut

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