How do I determine the right subwoofer size for me?

[Laura Palmer]

...if I'm not sure what size room I'll be living in =)

Probably not very smart, but how do I qualify my needs exactly?

Here's my setup so far...
Polk RTi8 (front)
Polk RTi6 (back)
Polk CSi5 (center)

I was thinking I can probably afford the HSU STF-2 (10"), however I don't want to regret not having bought the STF-3 (12") down the road.

Does the subwoofer size affect the type of sound you're getting? Or is it completely based on the size of the room you need to power?

Thanks!

[dorokusai]

You should have a really, really big subwoofer.

[RuSsMaN]

Yeah, one that really POUNDS.

[maggiefan]

Laura, you might send an e mail to SVS and give them your room size and listening preferances and they will recommend something that will work well for you. I understand they are very good at this and will not try and sell you something that is beyond what you need, they have even recommended other brands to people. Even if you do not want to buy one of their subs, you will get an idea of the size and amp power you need to do it right.

[Laura Palmer]

Thank you for the suggestion; I will not count out SVS, I'm going to look into them more.

In the meantime, I've been seriously considering HSU considering there's a dealer in Canada whereas I think I would have to import and pay shipping/duty for an SVS sub.

I was looking at the comparison charts for the STF-1, STF-2, and STF-3 and asside from wattage, it seems the only difference is that the STF-3 has "Line Level Low Pass For 2 Channel Systems" whereas the STF-2 and STF-1 do not.

As for wattage, if I'm using my Pioneer VSX-1014TX-K it only pushes out 120watts per channel I believe, so technically an 8" subwoofer should be all I can handle anyway since it's 150 Watts. The 10" and 12" are 200 Watts and 250 Watts, respectively.

Any advice on wattage if my receiver is only 120 Watts?

[dorokusai]

I would go HSU in your case simply because it's high quality and as you mentioned....on your side of the border. Screw SVS since you're in Canada.

EDIT: It appears that this may not be true, so get your SVS groove on.

My point was, go big or don't go at all. It will not be worth the hassle to find out later that you should have bought the larger subwoofer.

If you live in something other than your own home, perhaps size would be a factor, otherwise step it up.

The AVR's power rating has nothing to do with an active subwoofer, since they are internally amplified. While Sunfire is a fine example of what can be done with a very small subwoofer....they are the exception. Step into the 12" bracket in the HSU.

[VR3]

As mentioned in this thread...

Get the BIIGGGGGEST...BADDDEST sub you can afford...

You can ALWAYS turn one down...but theres only so much you can turn it up...

You're definetely going to want a sub that can hit to 20hz or lower...

It just really fills in better and adds some experience you just wouldnt normally get. IMO

[maggiefan]

I didn't know you were in Canada. Maybe the HSU would be a better one for you. Maybe they can recommend a model that would work for you. From what I've read they are also a well respected brand.

[cfrizz]

I would say get the HSU 12 that way you won't have any regrets. And since it runs on it's own amplifier you don't have to worry about putting any stress on your receiver.

[Laura Palmer]

Oh I should also mention that for my sub, I'm more concerned with music than films.

Is the VTF series more musical than the STF? Or the other way around maybe?

Does woofer size matter for music all the same?
Thanks!

I'm looking at that Home Digital AV dealer from Toronto, and I think they're STF-2 sub for $549 is a reasonable amount to me, but does anyone know if they're negotiable at all? Hi-Fidelity.com says that is the Canadian MSRP... I can't remember the last time I've paid MSRP price before, but then again I've never ordered speakers like these really. Should I bother asking my boyfriend to barder with the store?

[Zero]

Laura,

The difference between the STF-2 and the STF-3 is not marginal.

The STF-2 is a decent sub capable of blending in with most standard speakers. It's bass is tight, but not particularly strong and does not carry much weight and impact.

The STF-3 shares the same level of accuracy, but adds that missing impact. In terms of SPL, you would think they are not even from the same series. The STF-3 can blast out some serious bass that can fill a medium - large sized room with what most would consider to be acceptable authority.

Because all of these subs have built in amplifiers... all you need is an extra plug available on the wall. Your receivers power capabilities have no influence on these products.

[jdhdiggs]

I would go for the biggest sub you feel comfortable spending money on. Notice I didn't say the biggest one you can afford...

If you feel that the most you would ever spend on a sub is say $800, but you only have $400 to spend. Hold off until you have the $800 and then go shopping. Otherwise you will be stuck in a permanent buyers remorse situation and not get your money back out on the used sub.

Others will freak out about this, but the 8's will give you enough bass for now. And honestly, as long as you don't know what your missing, you won't miss it. Save up and get what you want, rather than settling just to get "something"

My 2 cents... Glad you got the 8's ;)

[jmierzur]

Originally posted by dorokusai
I would go HSU in your case simply because it's high quality and as you mentioned....on your side of the border. Screw SVS since you're in Canada.

Wrong. The retailer still pays the same border costs we pay. He may get a better deal on shipping as he would get a truck load at a time and may process the border papers himself saving the broker fees. Anyone can handle the border papers themselves and save the broker costs.

I posted the actual costs of bringing a SVS PCU sub into Canada in your wild speaker thread. As I said in the other thread, they are made in North America and are under NAFTA.

With the exchange rate, it is now cheaper us Canucks to get an HSU or SVS. Don't rule out any SVS options.

[dorokusai]

Please excuse me for not knowing the exact cross border information for your country....I forgot about that thread Jmierzur, cool. I stand corrected.

[Laura Palmer]

I promise, I am going to look into SVS. I'm looking into everything =)

I'm EVEN looking into Polk *again*.
This time it's not the PSW505 or PSW12 though, I'm going to accept that they're not anywhere near the same league as the SVS or HSU subs...

However.

How do people feel about the NEW Polk sub coming out in July?
The Polk PSW1000... that's a different league right? Does anyone think Polk may "win us back" with this one?

http://www.polkaudio.com/home/produc...=7&speaker=418

[TheReaper]

Originally posted by Laura Palmer
As for wattage, if I'm using my Pioneer VSX-1014TX-K it only pushes out 120watts per channel I believe, so technically an 8" subwoofer should be all I can handle anyway since it's 150 Watts. The 10" and 12" are 200 Watts and 250 Watts, respectively.

I have always used this formula, to get a minimum/starting value of watts for the sub-woofer. If you like a lot of sub-woofer, go higher. Realize my formula is just a guestimate, and not founded in anything real.

I add the watts for both of my main receiver channels (L/R) together, to get the minimum value for my sub-woofer. In your case, 120 + 120 = 240 watts minimum.

Also, with the RTi8s, I would go with a 12" driver (10" minimum). While smaller drivers can be made to push the lower frequencies with larger excursions. I prefer the tonal qualities of larger drivers.

[jdhdiggs]

Power to volume is not the same at all frequencies. Doc or some of the other hard core sub guys will help correct the specifics if I screw them up.

Assuming the sub and mains are the same efficiency, the following is the approximate power needed for the same volume (dB)

1kHz- 1W
500 Hz- 2W
250 Hz- 4W
125 Hz- 8W
62.5 Hz- 16W
31.3 Hz- 32W
15 Hz- 64W

Now realize that our hearing is less sensitve below 80 Hz so the volume generaly is hot below those levels. So a 30Hz signal would be say 9dB up from the 1khz signal. This would mean your needing 256W on the sub to keep up with 1 W from the receiver.

If your receiver is truly capable of delivering 120W/Channel, you would have to be up in the IB, DIY, or >$3000 range before the x-overed receiver would give out before the sub. At this point you would be deaf so it really wouldn't matter.

Just get as much sub as you feel comfortable in spending and you will be happy.

[lomic]

I recently positioned my STF-2 about 3 feet behind the listening position just before we watched Master and Commander... gave me a new respect for the sub, I didn't think it could put out that much bass. In certain scenes, like the storm, I could tell that it had no headroom and was barely able to sustain its output - which is making me look at getting something a bit larger.

I do still love it unconditionally for music though, and it's definitely my #1 recommedation for anyone who is doing mostly music and doesn't quite need the entire house to shake for movies.

[kberg]

I think the long and short of it is that you can't have "too much sub". Yes, you can have the sub "overly-cranked", but of course this is not what I'm talking about.

[rkn2903]

You should also go listen to the paradigm Pw 2200 .V2 it's a GREAT sub.

[gregure]

Laura,
I'm a little unsure why you're hung up on your reciever's 120W output. A sub has its own amplifier, which operates independently of your receiver's amp, so it doesn't really matter if it is 300 watts.
Just use the line level (sub out) output on the back of your receiver and you're golden.

As far as good subs go, here are a couple that would be good for a small to medium sized place (seem to remember you having mentioned you will be getting a smaller place at some point).

SVS PB 10 ISD. $430 w/o shipping.
This sub is very large, but moves a lot of air. For movies it pounds hard and deep (definitely not good if you live in an apartment). I like it for music as well. It is a little boomy, but still works well for most kinds of music. Especially classical.

Martin Logan Grotto $600 (I think)
This is a compact and sylish looking sub, w/ one 10" driver, but is rated down to 22 Hz. Its looks are deceiving, as it really puts out a lot more punch than you would expect for the size. It would be a good choice for movies, filling out the bass w/o being too overwhelming, and would be a superb choice for music, as it is very accurate and tight. See if you can find a local dealer to audition one.

If you really want to go all out you might want to consider the new SVS PB 12 Ultra. Looks like a really nice sub, but at $1200, it's not cheap. This would be a great sub for movies and music, but would literally shake your whole house from the ground up if you wanted it to.

Hope that helps. For a smaller place, the Grotto would be an excellent choice. For a midsized place, the PB 10, for a larger room, the PB 12 Ultra. Good luck.

PS. I know there are Martin Logan dealers in Canada so crossin the border should not be an issue.

[gregure]

I'd just like to make a correction to my earlier post recommending the Martin Logan Grotto sub. I earlier stated it was around $600, but it is actually about $1000. I confused the Grotto's price w/ that of the ML Dynamo, their entry level sub. Also a kickass sub for the size and price, but the Grotto is better overall for movies and music. Still a deal at a grand.