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  1. #1

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    Default Still not sure on what to upgrade

    I have a two chanel Yamaha RX-777 reciever (100w), one set of RTi8's, PSW202 sub, a 2004 basic Yamaha CDC-585 CD player, and an old Techniques EQ. Last night I turned off the EQ and the Sub and listed to Nora Jones and Pink Floyd - Mother. Without the EQ, it sound is flat, and a littled muffled, it just doesn't sound/feel alive. I typically adjust the EQ to make up the differance. I asked a similar question last week about adding Outlaw M-Block 200 amps to my system. I got some good responce. I'm and still questioning if this is my solition. I am ignorant about #'s and technical stuff, I base my decisions on how it sounds, opinion, and general prodect reviews. I have been asking around at the local dealers and I get differant opinions wherever I go. The common threds are: better speakers, amps, better speaker wire, new reviever, better CD player. I would think some, but not all of these options are necessary. I was told the reciever is a "natural sound" and Yamaha recievers run less dynamic on sound. I am trying to accomplish a crisp, clean, bold, sound. You guys told me the sound would come alive with the 2-outlaw amps, but i was also told (by a salesmen) that the amps won't change what is comming out of the yamah. If i use my "pre out/main in" terminals for amps i loose the EQ - I'm not sure if you can put an EQ on an amp let alone two mono amps. I aslo don't know if the EQ is a good idea period. I don't want to make a dumb chiose on my next purchase. Any more advice. Thanks PRC

  2. #2
    Polk-a-dweeb
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    Default

    We would all like to get the absolute best possible performance out of gear and trying to find the right combination can be a daunting task I'd suggest toying with your existing gear before upgrading anything.

    Have you tried different speaker placement options? How about toe-ing the speakers in a bit? Are they close to the side and rear walls, if so move them out into the room some more.

    Adding a separate amp(s) can make a difference in the sound, but in a perfect world an amplifier will not color the sound, it will amplify and nothing else. That's not always the case though.

    Where is your sub located? Poor placement will result in poor sound quality. Try putting the sub in your primary listening seat and walk around the room to see where it sounds the best. Once you've found the spot, that's where you put the sub.

    Are your speakers set to Large or Small? Setting them to small will relieve them of having to handle the bass frequencies. You have a sub, let it handle the low-end.


    Bottom line, play around with your toys. No need to go out and start spending money in an attempt to fix something that may not be broke.
    9/11 - WE WILL NEVER FORGET!! (<---<<click)
    2005-06 Club Polk Football Pool Champion!! :D

  3. #3

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    Originally posted by Frank Z
    We would all like to get the absolute best possible performance out of gear and trying to find the right combination can be a daunting task I'd suggest toying with your existing gear before upgrading anything.

    PRC - Thanks ... good ideas

    Have you tried different speaker placement options? How about toe-ing the speakers in a bit? Are they close to the side and rear walls, if so move them out into the room some more.

    PRC - My room layout is depiced by my wife and three kids, but it is approx. 14' deep by 18' long. the speakers are on the 14' wall approx. 7' apart. the sub is 3' to the left and facing the adjascent wall - 6" away. I have played around with this a little, but i will tweek it some more.


    Adding a separate amp(s) can make a difference in the sound, but in a perfect world an amplifier will not color the sound, it will amplify and nothing else. That's not always the case though.

    Where is your sub located? Poor placement will result in poor sound quality. Try putting the sub in your primary listening seat and walk around the room to see where it sounds the best. Once you've found the spot, that's where you put the sub.


    Are your speakers set to Large or Small? Setting them to small will relieve them of having to handle the bass frequencies. You have a sub, let it handle the low-end.

    PRC- What do you mean "set to Large or Small"??



    Bottom line, play around with your toys. No need to go out and start spending money in an attempt to fix something that may not be broke.

  4. #4

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    PRC,

    Remember back in the good old days when you were happy with how everything sounded.
    When certain coworkers ;) , came over and commented on how great everything sounded.
    Before elitest speaker snobs came by and made you rethink everything.
    Elitest speaker snobs with a history of running down any gear that isn't in their store.
    Elitest speakers snobs who sell Rotel one year as the greatest amp in the world and then change to NAD and run down Rotel.


    Maybe your problem isn't your gear but who you choose to let in your home.

    Your asking for advice from audio addicts with a passion for tweeking and retweeking. There is no one answer and any upgrade will lead to others.
    Remember your original question and the answers given were in respose to B&W vs. Polk. and the power required to drive them. And a desire for more clarity and resolution. Reciever warmth and other components were not discussed then. You are now asking broad questions with many different answers.

    I suggest you remember how you felt 3 weeks ago and run away from here screaming or believe me it will get very expensive.:D

  5. #5
    Polk-a-dweeb
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    Most receivers have a means of configuring the output signal that is sent to the various speakers. Setting a speaker(s) to Large means that all frequencies will be sent to that speaker(s). Setting them to Small means that all frequencies below the crossover point will be sent to the sub via the sub-out jack (aka - LFE). Your receiver may/should have a means of adjusting the the crossover point, start with a crossover setting of 100hz and see how it sounds.
    9/11 - WE WILL NEVER FORGET!! (<---<<click)
    2005-06 Club Polk Football Pool Champion!! :D

  6. #6

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    Originally posted by opus
    PRC,

    Remember back in the good old days when you were happy with how everything sounded.
    When certain coworkers ;) , came over and commented on how great everything sounded.
    Before elitest speaker snobs came by and made you rethink everything.
    Elitest speaker snobs with a history of running down any gear that isn't in their store.
    Elitest speakers snobs who sell Rotel one year as the greatest amp in the world and then change to NAD and run down Rotel.


    Maybe your problem isn't your gear but who you choose to let in your home.

    Your asking for advice from audio addicts with a passion for tweeking and retweeking. There is no one answer and any upgrade will lead to others.
    Remember your original question and the answers given were in respose to B&W vs. Polk. and the power required to drive them. And a desire for more clarity and resolution. Reciever warmth and other components were not discussed then. You are now asking broad questions with many different answers.

    I suggest you remember how you felt 3 weeks ago and run away from here screaming or believe me it will get very expensive.:D

  7. #7

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    Originally posted by Frank Z
    Most receivers have a means of configuring the output signal that is sent to the various speakers. Setting a speaker(s) to Large means that all frequencies will be sent to that speaker(s). Setting them to Small means that all frequencies below the crossover point will be sent to the sub via the sub-out jack (aka - LFE). Your receiver may/should have a means of adjusting the the crossover point, start with a crossover setting of 100hz and see how it sounds.

    Thanks.

  8. #8

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    Default Repeat after me: I am an EQaholic!

    Making sure your settings are correct makes a difference.

    I would venture to say that your use of an EQ is simply your attempt to make the music sound as "live" as possible. This is done most of the time to make up for how our rooms are carpeted, draped, upholstered, etc. We boost the treble and the bass some on both ends of the spectrum to get that little bit of boom and sizzle that we think a live event would have. This gets those graphic EQs to have that "smile" look to them with the upper and lower frequencies boosted.:D :D There is nothing wrong with doing this if you like the sound better, but it isn't what was intended from the recorded material. You become "addicted" to the added highs and lows and when shut off, the recording sounds flat and lifeless, so you quickly switch it back on. Cold turkey is no way to get off the EQ addiction.

    To get the most natural, enjoyable sound from your setup you might try setting the tone controls flat when you start your listening session with the voume about 3 db higher than normal to make up for the lower EQ and only adding until you hear a little difference.
    This level of EQ may not be a high as you normally listen, but should be satisfiyng. Move your speakers around to get the best possible sweet spot and imaging to make up for the missing EQ mix. Eventually you will find that good recordings don't really need EQ at all to sound good and only the worst need help.

    When you get used to hearing music without the EQ, you can then start tweaking with different speaker positions, cables, wires etc. to get the sound you like most.

    Then again, you may like it best when the eq is really cranked on! That is ok too!

    It is ok to use an EQ, the mixing board at the recording studio wasn't set to flat when the CD was recorded!

    Most important is to enjoy your music, no matter what gear you have.

    Cheers,

    DG
    HT
    Optoma HD25 LV on 80" DIY Screen
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  9. #9

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    Dang a 12 step EQ program, that is what we need!!:D

    My name is RT1...............I am a ..........................

    I have been flat for ............................................
    REEL TIME THEATRE
    Onkyo-TX-NR5007
    B&K 7270 amplifier
    Polk SWA-500 Subwoofer amplifier
    OppO BDP-83
    Pioneer Elite 50"
    Polk LCi-RTS-105;LCi-RTS-C;LCi-RTSFx;LCi80Fx
    Subs-Twin Polk CSW200
    HTS5000


    RABBIT HOLE RIG
    BAT VK-31SE
    VTL MB-450 Signature monoblock
    Wolcott Presence monoblock
    Musical Fidelity kW SACD
    Rega P25/RB600/Clearaudio Aurum Beta
    Acoustech Phono-Pre
    Sound Lab Millenium ELS
    BillyBags Rack
    MIT S1/3 cables
    Shunyata/PS Audio/Virtual Dynamics Power Cords


    Everthing Matters...Tubes Rule...and It's Over until it's Not Over

  10. #10

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    My NAD has a "tone defeat switch". Nobody knows what it is and I don't tell them. That way I know that it will stay flat no matter how many of my family members try to "pump up" the bass.
    "Just because you’re offended doesn’t mean you’re right." - Ricky Gervais

    "For those who believe, no proof is necessary. For those who don't believe, no proof is possible." - Stuart Chase

    "Consistency requires you to be as ignorant today as you were a year ago." - Bernard Berenson

  11. #11

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    PRC--I know your pain man. I'm a recovering treble junkie, and couldn't be happier. My cure? I bought a pre with no tone controls. It takes some getting used to, but after about a month you'll notice how much better the music sounds when frequencies are not boosted beyond thier intended levels.

    It's been over a year that I've been on the wagon, and I love the more tonally balanced sound. Wean yourself off that EQ brother, you can do it...if you need support call:

    1-800-0dB-trbl

    You can do it, we can help...;)
    Last edited by steveinaz; 03-31-2005 at 11:15 AM.

    Transport: Oppo BDP-103/USB HDD (flac)
    DAC/Preamp: Benchmark DAC/PRE
    Power Amp: Parasound HCA-1500A
    Speakers: Harbeth Compact 7ES-3 Monitor
    Cables: Kimber Hero/8TC; DH Labs D-75

  12. #12

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    Sounds like you need new speakers...

    Obviously they arnt what YOUR looking for.

    You sound you would like...

    Klipsch, Def Tech, Axiom, Possibly Rockets as well...

    All have a 'live' sound to them...
    www.Vr3Mods.com ///// www.Version3Audio.com

    "No, that's silly talk. Dude, you can't possibly be this audio dumb so quit the act." - Doro

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