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  1. #1

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    Question Timbre matching - is it really necessary?

    I wonder about how real is this? For those who have different front, surround, and center mix-match of different speakers, have you been able to calibrate them to compensate for them? What is your experience? thanks.
    I am sorry, I have no opinion on the matter. I am sure you do. So, don't mind me, I just want to talk audio and pie.

  2. #2

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    I think it more important for music than it is for HT(movies). Just my opinion.

  3. #3
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    it depends.

    I do believe that the two fronts and center should be timbre matched. Surrounds- not in my opinion.



    Fronts- Rti-4
    Center- Csi-3
    Sides- F/X300i
    Rears- F/X300i

    Receiver/Pre/Pro- Harman 235
    Amplifiers- Adcom 5300, 7300

  4. #4

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    IMO, timbre-matching is over rated. Sure, it's OK for its aesthetic appeal and is appropriate for someone new to HT, otherwise go for it. As long as you calibrate your speakers, you shouldn't have any issues.
    HT/2-channel Rig: Sony 50 LCD TV; Toshiba HD-A2 DVD player; Emotiva LMC-1 pre/pro; Rogue Audio M-120 monoblocks (modded); Placette RVC; Emotiva LPA-1 amp; Bada HD-22 tube CDP (modded); VMPS Tower II SE (fronts); DIY Clearwave Dynamic 4CC (center); Wharfedale Opus Tri-Surrounds (rear); and VMPS 215 sub

    "God grooves with tubes."

  5. #5

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    Early B, do you like your HK 525?

    I own one that I do not use anymore because the fan was sooooo loud that I couldn't here the movie. The reviews on the new HK units are that they are still loud.

    My Yamaha does not have a built in fan so it has to be placed in a very open cabinet, (I cut holes in rear top and sides to vent) but it is quiet.

    Was it just my unit or have you noticed this too?

  6. #6

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    I own one that I do not use anymore because the fan was sooooo loud that I couldn't here the movie. The reviews on the new HK units are that they are still loud.
    Hmmm. Never heard a peep out of mine.
    HT/2-channel Rig: Sony 50 LCD TV; Toshiba HD-A2 DVD player; Emotiva LMC-1 pre/pro; Rogue Audio M-120 monoblocks (modded); Placette RVC; Emotiva LPA-1 amp; Bada HD-22 tube CDP (modded); VMPS Tower II SE (fronts); DIY Clearwave Dynamic 4CC (center); Wharfedale Opus Tri-Surrounds (rear); and VMPS 215 sub

    "God grooves with tubes."

  7. #7

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    I think its worth a little effort to "try" and timbre match, but if you can't, I wouldn't loose any sleep. Odds are they won't be perfectly matched anyway, even if the manufacturer says they are.

    My system is "supposed" to be timbre matched (according to Polk), but when I hear the pink noise test that continuously pans between speakers on the Avia disk, I can clearly hear a pitch change between my RT800i towers, my CS245i center, and my RT25i surrounds. I don't know if this is because they all have different woofer configurations/sizes or what, but it kinda shoots the whole effort of matching out the window.

    With actual movies and/or SACD/DVD-A, I can't notice any of the speakers being "off". It sounds perfectly blended.

  8. #8

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    It had to be his unit. I've owned several HK products over the years and still do. Even though their quality might not be as great as their vintage gear, it's still well above average and I don't think they would let a bunch of receivers that made fan noise loud enough that one couldn't hear a movie out of the factory and into stores.

  9. #9

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    Originally posted by aaharvel
    it depends.

    I do believe that the two fronts and center should be timbre matched. Surrounds- not in my opinion.
    I agree with this. If you can timbre-match the surrounds, even better, but not as important, IMO.
    Mains: polkaudio RTi70's (bi-wired)
    Center: polkaudio CSi40 (bi-wired)
    Surrounds: polkaudio FXi30's
    Rear Center: polkaudio CSi30
    Sub: SVS 20-39 PC+
    Receiver: ONKYO TX-SR600
    Display: JVC HD-56G786
    DVD Player: SONY DVP-CX985V
    DVD Player: OPPO DV-981HD 1080p High Definition Up-Converting Universal DVD Player with HDMI
    Remote: Logitech Harmony H688

  10. #10

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    I agree totally. The front and center stage should be a closely timbre matched as possible. You know same brand, same size drivers, same exact drivers, and etc. However, the rear stage can differ somewhat unless you listen to SACD or DVD-A. Personally, I prefer 2-channel music listening to multi-channel. For ht use, IMHO the rears do not have to be timbre matched as long as you use a good quality speaker.
    The way one uses a product is a much more SIGNIFICANT factor than which product(s) he uses.

  11. #11

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    Originally posted by ND13
    It had to be his unit. I've owned several HK products over the years and still do. Even though their quality might not be as great as their vintage gear, it's still well above average and I don't think they would let a bunch of receivers that made fan noise loud enough that one couldn't hear a movie out of the factory and into stores.
    I emailed their tech dept and they admit that the fan noise is louder than it should be (most reviews have addressed this problem). With all the power it pumps out, it needs an open cabinet, but the fan still comes on even out in the open.

    I can here the movie when it kicks in but I can also here the fan. Don't get me wrong, the HK puts out some great sound and is at least as good, if not better than the Yamaha I replaced it with, but I can't stand the fan.

    What American company still builds the same quality as it used to back in the 70's? I'd say just about none.

  12. #12

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    I agree two-channel is better for music, and that surrounds are not as crucial to timbre match. I strongly agree that the mains and center should be matched. It sounds very odd when, for instance, the center is an aluminum dome tweeter, yet the mains are silk tweeters. I'd rather not deal with the problem of matching by simply buying the appropriate center.
    That being said, I too noticed an audible difference during the AVIA noise test. I actually could not hear a difference between mains and surrounds, but for some reason the center always sounded a bit brighter, almost as if it were a different pitch.
    Current System:

    Mitsubishi 30" LCD LT-3020 (for sale**)
    Vienna Acoustics Beethoven Concert Grand (Rosewood)-Mains (with Audioquest Mont Blanc cables)
    CSi5-Center (for sale**)
    FXi3-surrounds (for sale**)
    Martin Logan Depth-Sub
    B&K AVR 507
    Pimare CD21-CD Player
    Denon 1815-DVD Player
    Panamax M5500-EX-Line Conditioner

  13. #13

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    I'll say this

    it's Important to the people who want there system to be seemless all the way around. You don't want a sound to change when it moves around the room. I'm sure most if not all of you know what Timbre matching is right???

    I only had one system that wasn't timbre matched and that was back in the days of Pro Logic. I had Pinnacle Mains and center and Advent baby 2's for rears. My sub was Pinnacle as well. I loved that system as it was my first Pro logic system I owned.

    I do this for a living again as most of you already know and I get to experience Timbre matching and non matching all the time.
    Alot of times people will buy the same front 3 , well always matching front 3 but sometimes the rears are inceiling or inwall of another brand. For them it works perfectly as they are not as cridical as I am. I listen to it and find that the matching rears sound better.

    I will say for the average listener, they will not notice. I had done this a Kazillion times. I can hear it but my customers cannot. Hell most of my customers don't enjoy a calibrated video display. I calibrate it and most of them say "it's a bit dark or not enough color". Ok so for them I adjust it up and they are happy. I also save a preset so they have the proper calibration as well as there custom setup.. Sometimes this goes for the audio, they want the rears to kick them in the head, Ok so I run them up 3 db more so they do...

    All in all a great question to ask. For most people the rears can be different with no problems. Front 3 need to match as most people can hear that as it's in your face all the time. If you mis match there, you will notice.

    I only ask why can't the correct rears and center be used??? Why mis match???

    Dan
    Dan
    My personal quest is to save to world of bad audio, one thread at a time.

  14. #14

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    Gott go with Dan on this one. I like mine seemless all the way...
    I smell ass, burning ass, glowing cherry red spanked ass.

    RT1

  15. #15

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    Originally posted by amulford
    Gott go with Dan on this one. I like mine seemless all the way...
    Well, if that is what you want I can respect that. If it is really that important to achieve seemless perfection just make sure you use the exact same brand, same drivers and more specifically same size drivers. Make sure you stay with the same series within whatever brand you choose in order to acquire optimal timbre matching. Pay attention to your receiver as well. Are you sending the same amount of power to each channel as so forth. These are just some of the things that I have picked up from other forums.
    The way one uses a product is a much more SIGNIFICANT factor than which product(s) he uses.

  16. #16

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    Some of your points are correct. However, the size of the drivers are not as critical as the composition and frequency response. As long as you stay within the range of your highest response, you will have good integration.

    Most critical to the equation are the tweeters. They will have the most notable difference in characteristics.

    As far as equal power, this is not very important unless you do alot of hi rez multi channel music. Proper calibration is more important in HT.

    That all being what it is, my HT consists of all Polks from the same series, the RT. They all get 200 WPC. It sounds pretty darn good.;)
    Last edited by amulford; 06-19-2005 at 11:15 PM.
    I smell ass, burning ass, glowing cherry red spanked ass.

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  17. #17

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    I have to agree with many peeps here. I don't think the drivers need to be the same size, I think the tweets need to be the same more than the size of mids. I use to run jbl nothridge in my rears, I could tell they were not the same. Even with my r10's as rears could tell the diff. Now i run the rti4s in the rear and as mentioned it's seamless. What a big difference.

  18. #18

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    thanks for your comments, guys!

    Mantis, how do you like your Dyn on HT?

    cheers.
    I am sorry, I have no opinion on the matter. I am sure you do. So, don't mind me, I just want to talk audio and pie.

  19. #19

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    polkatese,
    Love em. They are so damn clear and dynamic. The Audience 82's hit so low I haven't had the desire for a sub. Nice but true. Star Wars Ep2 hits incredibly hard. For mains there killer.I love the rears as well. I can't believe how well the fill the room for direct speakers. Owning the Lsi and Rt before them I was spoiled on Di polar. Now that I don';t have that anymore I don't miss it.

    Direct rears I feel at least these are more acurate. They direct the sound exactly where it's suppost to be. To be correct, you are suppost to have direct rears and surround backs.

    Dan
    Dan
    My personal quest is to save to world of bad audio, one thread at a time.

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