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Thread: HiFi Sucks

  1. #1

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    Default HiFi Sucks

    I stopped and heard a band practicing this morning. No matter how good the audio system the drum set never sounds like it does in person.
    madmax
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    Conversly...I quit going to a lot of concerts because the "live" stuff sucked. Bad venues, bad acoutics, off night for the performers, whatever, I can live with Hi-Fi just fine.
    "Just because you’re offended doesn’t mean you’re right." - Ricky Gervais

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  3. #3

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    And it shouldn't. And it never will. Hell, why would you even want your system to sound "live?" In fact, "live" sucks, not your audio system. And the worst live music of all are bands.

    Live music should try to emulate your system, not vice versa.:p
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    I think y'all are missing his point. I don't think he's referring to the 'synergy', if you will: the balance between instruments, their presence within the music, and just overall balance. I think he's more saying that no matter how good your system, a recorded cymbal won't ever capture all the little details that a 'live' cymbal has. Of course the overall composure of recordings is going to be superior to live stuff; they've been recorded and remastered! But the tonality, 'crispness', and other small characteristics of instruments will never be fully reproduced accurately by any audio system.

    Now, I think that it is awful close!
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  5. #5

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    Lets put it this way. Take a person who has never heard a radio, tv or HiFi system, play a quick drum riff (or any other instrument) for him, then let him listen to it on a present day HiFi system. I'm sure you would get a YUK response on the HiFi. The re-production is totally aweful. All sorts of sounds are missing and of course the dynamics are way off.

    I never said anything directly about live. But, for the record I think there are different types of live.

    1: All acoustic instruments
    2: Mixture of acoustic instruments and individual amplified instruments
    3: Either of the above through a PA system

    As for what kind of live I like? #1 or #2. I can no longer stand the thought of #3. Of course #1 or #2 can suck too if not set up correctly.

    Regarding my post, I was listening to #2.



    I really can't imagine anyone not wanting to re-produce faithfully the sound of a good drum setup, other percussion, a B3 or a Strat through a Marshall or a brass section. OR a combination. :)


    madmax


    Edit: Yes, audiobliss is correct.

    I always wonder what the top notch audio systems would sound like to me if I had never heard one before. I think non-audiophiles are the best people to evaluate a system. If they become infatuated with the sound then you are probably doing ok. If they say it is nice and walk away, well, I think that says it all.
    Last edited by madmax; 07-03-2005 at 03:51 PM.
    Vinyl, the final frontier...

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    Ya know Chuck, you're right! I'm throwing all my gear in the dumpster.
    'Political Correctness'.........defined

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    Originally posted by F1nut
    Ya know Chuck, you're right! I'm throwing all my gear in the dumpster.

    Stop I be right over, I'll help you put that gear in the dumpster / my trunk. ;)

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  8. #8
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    Chuck,

    It all sounds like ****, its just a matter of finding **** you can live with. = )

    Hi Fi should be taken at the level it is, reproduced sound. Any expectation to achieve performance akin to the 'real thing' is a hopeless attempt for even the modestly wealthy.

    Chin up, take a break from the system for awhile.... You still got a killer rig.

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    I got dibs on that dumpster!!!!!!

    :D
    Quote Originally Posted by George Grand View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Jstas View Post
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    Originally posted by audiobliss
    I got dibs on that dumpster!!!!!!

    :D

    Don't need to worry about that Dumpster, it's in my Car.

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    no one, and I meant no one, touch those mofo. The MF is mine, comprende.
    I am sorry, I have no opinion on the matter. I am sure you do. So, don't mind me, I just want to talk audio and pie.

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    Originally posted by polkatese
    comprende?
    Yo no hablo espanol. :D
    Quote Originally Posted by George Grand View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Jstas View Post
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    Hi Fi should be taken at the level it is, reproduced sound. Any expectation to achieve performance akin to the 'real thing' is a hopeless attempt for even the modestly wealthy.
    Dub this the quote of the week.

    I really can't imagine anyone not wanting to re-produce faithfully the sound of a good drum setup, other percussion, a B3 or a Strat through a Marshall or a brass section. OR a combination.
    Can you imagine Early B.? I went to a concert last year that featured my favorite singer and her band. She sounded wonderful and the band was great, but I preferred to listen to her CDs rather than listening to the live performance.

    Why, you ask? Because at any time I can control how I want to hear it. If I want more, bass, I can simply turn a knob. If I want more detail, I can swap out tubes. If I want it louder, I can pump up the volume. If I want more impact, I can swap out speakers. Besides, my system can faithfully produce the sound of virtually any instrument to the extent that I am happy with the way it sounds. For me, it doesn't have to sound 100% real for it to be appreciated. Ninety-five percent is more than adequate. ;)
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    Remember the ole " Is it Live or Is it Memorex" ads. They were touting the tape as being as good as being there. " Wannabes"
    The eye/ear coordination of seeing the fingers on the frets and hearing the 24" drum in front of you cannot be reproduced except in some of the systems most folks can't touch. I agree that seldom the stage is properly set up to sound like "stereo" but every now and then you find a small stage and get in the golden triangle and there is no system that can reproduce it. IMO. It's still nice to throw on your favorite artist and wish you were there.
    >
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    OK, let's take a live 4 piece rock band for example, let's say AC/DC.

    They probably have Marshall amplifiers with Celestion full range drivers in them for both guitars and the bass. The drums are acoustic, but probably have triggers. Then it is all pumped through the PA sytem in the venue too which probably have some kind of pro series speakers and amps from the bands soundboard.

    Not counting the drums, but for the guitars and bass amps, some home speakers are probably of as good or even better quality than some of those the bands use.

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    Default Re: HiFi Sucks

    Originally posted by madmax
    I stopped and heard a band practicing this morning. No matter how good the audio system the drum set never sounds like it does in person.
    madmax
    That is because recording engineers add a lot of compression to the drum track. That was neccessary during the days of vinyl LP's because the limitations of the recording process and the physical limitations of the LP format didn't allow for wide dynamic range.

    Todays digital recording techniques can capture the wide dynamic range of hot drum tracks. Unfortunately many, if not most, recording engineers still use techniques more suited for analog recording.

    I don't think it is Hi Fi that sucks as much as the sorry and incompetant recording techniques used today.

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    The early, Acoustic Research (AR) "Live vs Recorded" demonstrations proved beyond a doubt, that EVEN BACK THEN, using AR equipment, "Live vs Recorded" could be virtually indistinguishable to an audience.

    BUT, I seem to remember AR using a lot of stringed instruments.

    I kind of agree with Max. Before he was born, I made this statement:

    "Get the greatest sound reproduction equipment in the world. Record a 6 year old kid bashing away on a set of drums. Switch between live and recorded, and the limits of the sound reproduction equipment will be obvious."

    George Grand (of the Jersey Grands)

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    I seem to recall a story that George relayed to me about Bob Carver visiting a mad scientist type trying to recreate the sound of a snip of pair of scissors with literally a ton of amplification and still couldn't do it.

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    I have a hard time telling "live from recorded" especially when it concerns Ashlee Simpson.:D That is a case of too little compression.
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    Sorry I haven't posted for awhile. I've been hanging around F1Nuts trash can. No luck...

    madmax
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    Ho is that you standing next to me... no audio stuff yet, but that chicken leftovers weren’t that bad were they?

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  22. #22

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    Live is the best you will ever hear.

    HiFi is a joke compared to being there.
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    I said dumpster, not trash can. Why today I threw away a large piece of glass for a desk top, a cherry headboard, assorted pieces of useless wood and a pair of B&W P5's.
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    *damnit*damnit*damnit*
    I could have used the cherry headboard!

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    Originally posted by hoosier21
    Live is the best you will ever hear.

    HiFi is a joke compared to being there.
    x2

    Once had the pleasure of seeing Zubin Meta make such a pure tone come from a violin my balls actually vibrated with the anticipation of the moment.

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    Originally posted by reeltrouble1


    my balls actually vibrated with the anticipation of the moment.

    RT1

    :D

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    Originally posted by DarqueKnight
    Todays digital recording techniques can capture the wide dynamic range of hot drum tracks. Unfortunately many, if not most, recording engineers still use techniques more suited for analog recording.

    I don't think it is Hi Fi that sucks as much as the sorry and incompetant recording techniques used today.
    The Chesky Audiophile Test Disc Vol. 3 demonstrates what DK is saying. It's amazing how sound can be manipulated today to sound as good, and often better IMO, than live listening (if done properly, of course).
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  28. #28

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    wow I saw junior brown live at rams head tavern in annapolis and no cd even comes close. Plus what a nice guy! Venue and stage equipment are essential to live music.nissan pavillion has nice acoustics as well, I think they used thier lawn section to reflect surround sound. anyway quality music sounds good always

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    A neighbor of mine had a musical group playing at a party a few days ago. The group was all acoustic - no electronic amplification. After I left I heard the flute playing from my back yard and the sound was amazing. I couldn't tell where it was coming from - it was everywhere. I listened to a bit of music on my stereo after that and found it LACKING. I've seen plenty of concerts and IMO nothing beats a live performance.

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    After attending my first concert back in 2001, I made it my quest to duplicate that live sound and feeling. Today, I'm very satisfied with what I have and I'm surprised how similar my system sounds to the live shows I attend. The things I look for are the raw energy, dynamics and big soundstaging. This gives me that live feeling and makes music sound exciting. But my system sounds like half hifi and half PA so I'm sure most people wouldn't enjoy it as much as I would.

    I've never experienced a live acoustic performance. I played in the orchestra back in middle school but was never part of the audience. So I'm talking about sound coming out of good PA systems.

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