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  1. #1

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    Default It's not upgraditus, I swear!

    Okay so the syndrome is similar and equally financially irresponsible, but I'm thinking of buying some LSi's and making a seperate 2-channel setup. Just to remind you all, this is what I came out with after I started.

    Harman Kardon AVR635 (Receiver)
    Monster MPA2250 (250wpc Amplifier)
    Polk RTi12s (Front)
    Polk RTi6s (Back)
    Polk CSi5 (Center)
    HSU STF-2 (Subwoofer)

    If I were to create a 2-channel setup for a pair of LSi9s. Would I be able to run them with a Harman Kardon 3480 Stereo receiver? I'd like to get an HK product so I could use A-Bus, and use the Zone II remote easily. (Plus, I just plain love Harman Kardon) but I don't know if the HK 3480 can handle 4 Ohm speakers. Does anyone know? I don't really want to move my Monster Amp into this setup because I want to put it in my bedroom, and there won't be enough room for that thing. I also don't want to buy ANOTHER amp, I just want to put together a 2-channel setup for somewhat reasonable prices. I want the biggest expense to be the speakers themselves.

  2. #2

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    If it were me, I'd want my top-notch equipment in my 2-channel rig. I personally wouldn't power Lsi9's with anything but seperates.

    Transport: Oppo BDP-103/USB HDD (flac)
    DAC/Preamp: Benchmark DAC/PRE
    Power Amp: Parasound HCA-1500A
    Speakers: Harbeth Compact 7ES-3 Monitor
    Cables: Kimber Hero/8TC; DH Labs D-75

  3. #3

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    Originally posted by steveinaz
    If it were me, I'd want my top-notch equipment in my 2-channel rig. I personally wouldn't power Lsi9's with anything but seperates.
    I'll second that. Ebay and other places can get your a nice pre-amp and amp for the price of the HK.

    Be careful with the upgraditis. You might like the LSis so much, that you end up redoing your home theater system with em. ;)

  4. #4

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    And with THOSE two replies... I'm gonna forget the idea right away :)

    Cause I'd have to shoot myself if I bought another amplifier.
    I guess if I *really* wanted to do this down the road that I could just not use the Monster amp on my RTi12s and just feed off the HK635. I'm sure the difference won't be huge.

    Still that's a lot of space to take up in my bedroom, I really should drop the idea quick.

  5. #5

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    Smile

    I concur, for 2 ch. I think you would be better off going with seperates, seems like the "upgradeitis" syndrome is spreading, must be transmitted electronicaly, possibally sonically, as I am looking to upgrade to a " tube " pre-amp:D

  6. #6
    Stronzo
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    Just be careful in what seperates you move 'up' to. Those HK stereo receivers sport a better sound than many affordable seperate's....

    My advice; stay away from the likes of AMC, Adcom, or Carver, if you want to get a worthwhile improvement. (Hey, I dont have anything against ANY of those brands, just giving advice based off of cold hard experience).

  7. #7

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    Laura, I would highly recommend the 100 watt Jolida hybrid integrated amp for your eventual 2 channel rig. It has a tubed pre-amp section and a solid state power amp section with a torriodal transformer. It's power is conservatively rated too as I'm sure it's really putting out more than 100 watts x 2. WELL worth the $$$. Newer models now have remote controls and pre-outs for bi-amping, 2nd zones, subs, etc.

  8. #8

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    Originally posted by Laura Palmer

    Still that's a lot of space to take up in my bedroom, I really should drop the idea quick.
    Don's be scurrrd. A good pre/amp combo will take up the same, or even less space than the HK would have.

    C'mon, you know you wanna...

  9. #9

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    Laura, I think the 3480 would handle the 9's fine unless you are doing critical listening...casual, it should be fine in a bedroom system.

    BTW, I would think the RTi12s need a separate amp more than LSi 9s would...
    Last edited by 2+2; 07-19-2005 at 04:17 PM.
    System 1: Onix Rockets 750 Sig. Ed., Rotel RC 1070, Rotel RB 1080, Music Hall MMF CD25 w/627opamps

    System 2: LSi15, Marantz SR8400, Rotel 1080, RM6800 (C&S), Yamaha: 2300 Univ. DVD, CDC-625RS.

    System 3: LSi7, Yamaha SW215, HK 230, Elite DV-45A; Sony C445.

    System 4: RTi100, Onkyo TXSV717Pro, Monarchy/Sonic Impact Hybrid, Yamaha CD.

  10. #10

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    Originally posted by 2+2
    Laura, also consider running the 9's off of the Zone 2 of the HK 635 and forget the 3480 (unless it is in a different room). I dont think the 635 has an A/B speaker feature. I think it would handle the 9's fine. If the 635 has Zone 2 preouts, you can just get a 2ch amp to give them more juice....just a thought...

    BTW, I would think the RTi12s need a separate amp more than LSi 9s would...
    Nope, no way. RTi12 are 8ohms nom, LSi are 4ohms nom, and can dip to 2ohms. If you had one amp and had to pick, the LSi9 should get the amp hands down.

    I wouldn't run the 9's off of the HK, but I have issues with HK anyway.

  11. #11

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    I'd be willing to bet everything I own that a set of RTi12 would shut down the HK 635, or any other comparable AVR for that matter faster than a pair of LSi9 would.

  12. #12

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    Laura,

    FWIW, I think if you are looking for an affordable bedroom system I don't see anything wrong w/ an Adcom GFA-535 and equivalent pre-amp. I know Zero doesn't highly rec this type of set up, but my brother is powering a pair of Lsi-7's with an Adcom GCA-510. These are a bit hard to find. It's essentially the 535's output section mated to a line stage pre. It's actually more like a high gain pre at 50 watts per channel. It gives much more power than it's rated for and sounds excellent mated w/the Lsi-7's. Since a GCA-510 is difficult to find the 535 and a pre would be easier to purchase used. If you like the Mosfet sound then the GFA-5200 is the one to get.

    I have had a few AMC products and while they have been good, they are simply not on the same level as Adcom. So I agree w/ Zero about AMC. No exp. w/ Carver.

    Of course there have been some excellent suggestions for tube equipment as well. But, as I'm sure you know these simple systems end up becoming very expensive if you don't draw the line somewhere.

    Good luck

    H9
    "Appreciation of audio is a completely subjective human experience. Measurements can provide a measure of insight, but are no substitute for human judgment. Why are we looking to reduce a subjective experience to objective criteria anyway? The subtleties of music and audio reproduction are for those who appreciate it. Differentiation by numbers is for those who do not".--Nelson Pass

    Pass Aleph 30; Eastern Electric Mini Max; Adcom GDA600; MIT S3/Z Pc; SDA 1C; Squeezebox; Tubes add soul!

  13. #13

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    Originally posted by phuz
    Nope, no way. RTi12 are 8ohms nom, LSi are 4ohms nom, and can dip to 2ohms. If you had one amp and had to pick, the LSi9 should get the amp hands down.

    I wouldn't run the 9's off of the HK, but I have issues with HK anyway.
    Well, I have the 7s and I have run them for extended periods at loud volumes with three different receivers HK230, Onkyo 717 and Marantz SR8400 and they all did fine...hence the bases for my post.....granted 9s will probably be harder since it has another driver. The RTi 12s are awefully big with a lot of large drivers which are pretty hard to drive.....

    ....even Polk recommends a higher powered amplifier for the RTi12s (50-500watts) than the LSi 9s (20-200 watts).
    System 1: Onix Rockets 750 Sig. Ed., Rotel RC 1070, Rotel RB 1080, Music Hall MMF CD25 w/627opamps

    System 2: LSi15, Marantz SR8400, Rotel 1080, RM6800 (C&S), Yamaha: 2300 Univ. DVD, CDC-625RS.

    System 3: LSi7, Yamaha SW215, HK 230, Elite DV-45A; Sony C445.

    System 4: RTi100, Onkyo TXSV717Pro, Monarchy/Sonic Impact Hybrid, Yamaha CD.

  14. #14

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    Originally posted by marker
    I'd be willing to bet everything I own that a set of RTi12 would shut down the HK 635, or any other comparable AVR for that matter faster than a pair of LSi9 would.
    I'll take that bet, as long as I don't have to wager everything I own also:D

    Seriously though, it's not just about the power handling of the speakers, it's also about the ohms. Now I'd imagine the HK will handle a 4 ohm load, but a comparable receiver like the Denon 3801 or Yammy RX-v2400 won't do it as easily. It would probably be easier for one of those units to drive the RTi12s than the LSi9 due to the ohm rating alone - although neither will really suffice to drive either speaker.

    Having said all that, I'd bet the HK you're looking at is stable down to 4 ohms and would drive the LSi9 nicely, maybe not as good as separates, but still do a good job. You could always upgrade to separates down the road later anyway...
    Main HT
    Magnepan 1.6QR fronts, POlk R15 surrounds, Pioneer SC-25, Parasound Halo A23, Oppo BDP-105, Panasonic TC-P60ZT60, Sony PS3, Apple TV

    Bedroom System
    Polk Blackstone TL3, Polk PSWi225 Wireless Sub, HK 3490 Integrated, Oppo BDP-103, Sharp Aquos 32" TV, Apple TV

    Office Rig
    27" iMac w/Amarra, AudioQuest Dragonfly 1.2, Focal XS Book, Schiit Valhalla, Cypher Labs Theorem 720, Philips Fidelio X1, Sennheiser HD600, HiFiMan HE-500, B&W P7, LG 47LM7600, Sony PS3, Apple TV

  15. #15

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    It's only a matter of time before HT lovers go 2ch for music listening. I think most of us here started with multichannel. I started with a full blown RT home theatre set up powered by an Onkyo receiver. My 2ch adventure began with a pair of LSi9.

    I still own my LSi and listen to them once in a while. On their own, they're very warm sounding speakers and I find that teaming them up with warm gear made them sound a little sloppy and boomy. It seems like they sound best with neutral to bright sounding pre amps for my application.

    I agree with the other members about going seperates for 2ch. Check out ebay and audiogon for some good quality used equipments. You can also check out some nice int amps.

    Maurice
    CD Player: Original CD-A8T
    Receiver: Harman/Kardon HK3390
    Speakers: Polk Audio RT1000p
    "I would rather have a cup of tone than an ocean of power" **Dr. Harvey Rosenberg**

  16. #16

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    Sorry PM, but the RTi12 when run full range (or "large") is a much harder load to drive than the LSi9, regardless of the ohm ratings.

    Wonder just what the load on the RTi12 actually dips down to, anybody know for sure?

    Edit- I can tell you that from actual hands on peronal experience with both models at that.
    Last edited by marker; 07-19-2005 at 04:35 PM.

  17. #17

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    Without knowing how low the 12's dip, it's very difficult to tell. But going by imp and sensitivity ratings, the LSi9 is a much harder load to drive.

    Maurice
    CD Player: Original CD-A8T
    Receiver: Harman/Kardon HK3390
    Speakers: Polk Audio RT1000p
    "I would rather have a cup of tone than an ocean of power" **Dr. Harvey Rosenberg**

  18. #18

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    Not to derail this thread and I could be wrong but I dont think Polk was talking about "max" power of a speaker....Polk refers to "Recommended Amplifier Power" in the specification in the ranges noted..........
    System 1: Onix Rockets 750 Sig. Ed., Rotel RC 1070, Rotel RB 1080, Music Hall MMF CD25 w/627opamps

    System 2: LSi15, Marantz SR8400, Rotel 1080, RM6800 (C&S), Yamaha: 2300 Univ. DVD, CDC-625RS.

    System 3: LSi7, Yamaha SW215, HK 230, Elite DV-45A; Sony C445.

    System 4: RTi100, Onkyo TXSV717Pro, Monarchy/Sonic Impact Hybrid, Yamaha CD.

  19. #19

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    You can get a HK 3480 from Onecall for $268, it will deliver 150 watts per channel to 4 ohm speakers with 0.2 percent THD and has 45 amps of current. That's plenty of power for the LSi9's. Since it will do everything else you want, I'd suggest going for it, especially since you like Harman Kardon gear anyway. No need to go nuts on a bedroom system.
    1. JM Labs Electra 920.1 and CC30; MB Quart Vera Sub; Pioneer SC-57; Squeezebox Touch; Panasonic BDT-500 Blu-Ray; Samsung 52" LCD; FIOS; PS Audio Power Plant Premier; MIT S3 cables
    2. Polk SDA-SRS 2.3TL; Sonic Frontiers Line 3 SE; Classe Model 25; Marantz SA8004; Acoustech PH1P; Squeezebox Touch; Music Hall MMF7; PS Audio P1000; MIT S2 cables
    3. Polk SDA 2A; Parasound Halo JC-2 and A21; Musical Fidelity X-DAC; Squeezebox Touch; PS Audio 4.7; MIT S1 cables

  20. #20

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    Just look at the driver difference though. The RTi12 has THREE 7" woofers to drive that the LSi 9 doesn't.

    Again, I've have had both in my house at the same time before, and the RTi12 (when not high passed) will shut down an AVR faster.

  21. #21

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    Laura how big is the bedroom you are running this system in? If it's a typical sized bedroom I'm guessing that the system is not going to be played at a very high level very often if at all. All this discussion about will this component/won't this component run this or that set of speakers may not be as much of a factor if you are using this for lower to moderate listening sessions. Just a thought :)

    Now if you have a medium to large sized room and will be listening at moderate to high levels most of the time then some good points have been raised about amplification.

    As I discussed earlier about my brother's bedroom system (Lsi-7's) he doesn't need more amplification than what he has because it never get's much louder than low to average level's. Even when he want's to jam out occasionally; he has all the amplification he needs.

    H9
    "Appreciation of audio is a completely subjective human experience. Measurements can provide a measure of insight, but are no substitute for human judgment. Why are we looking to reduce a subjective experience to objective criteria anyway? The subtleties of music and audio reproduction are for those who appreciate it. Differentiation by numbers is for those who do not".--Nelson Pass

    Pass Aleph 30; Eastern Electric Mini Max; Adcom GDA600; MIT S3/Z Pc; SDA 1C; Squeezebox; Tubes add soul!

  22. #22

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    Originally posted by Emlyn
    You can get a HK 3480 from Onecall for $268, it will deliver 150 watts per channel to 4 ohm speakers with 0.2 percent THD and has 45 amps of current. That's plenty of power for the LSi9's. Since it will do everything else you want, I'd suggest going for it, especially since you like Harman Kardon gear anyway. No need to go nuts on a bedroom system.
    ^ What he said.

  23. #23

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    Man, every time you hit refresh, there is at least one new post on this thread.

  24. #24

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    Originally posted by marker
    Just look at the driver difference though. The RTi12 has THREE 7" woofers to drive that the LSi 9 doesn't.

    Again, I've have had both in my house at the same time before, and the RTi12 (when not high passed) will shut down an AVR faster.
    I'm not saying you're wrong. I was going by the specs Polk gave us. However, you can't judge them by the # and size of drivers alone. The x-over and cab design also have an impact on the speaker's overall efficiency.

    Maurice
    CD Player: Original CD-A8T
    Receiver: Harman/Kardon HK3390
    Speakers: Polk Audio RT1000p
    "I would rather have a cup of tone than an ocean of power" **Dr. Harvey Rosenberg**

  25. #25

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    I see where ya'll are coming from, but I'm not going by specs. I'm going by what actually happened.

    If you ever get the chance, try it with both models, see what happens, and then report back.

  26. #26

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    I agree with you that the RTi12's are difficult to drive. I spent about an hour one time with a pair of RTi12 and a H/K 635 and the 635 didn't have the balls to drive them. I made a post about this too. Never had them side by side with the LSi though.

    Maurice
    CD Player: Original CD-A8T
    Receiver: Harman/Kardon HK3390
    Speakers: Polk Audio RT1000p
    "I would rather have a cup of tone than an ocean of power" **Dr. Harvey Rosenberg**

  27. #27

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    Talking about Polk Specs....

    Originally posted by 2+2
    ....even Polk recommends a higher powered amplifier for the RTi12s (50-500watts) than the LSi 9s (20-200 watts).
    Is it a sin to quote oneself??:D :D :)
    System 1: Onix Rockets 750 Sig. Ed., Rotel RC 1070, Rotel RB 1080, Music Hall MMF CD25 w/627opamps

    System 2: LSi15, Marantz SR8400, Rotel 1080, RM6800 (C&S), Yamaha: 2300 Univ. DVD, CDC-625RS.

    System 3: LSi7, Yamaha SW215, HK 230, Elite DV-45A; Sony C445.

    System 4: RTi100, Onkyo TXSV717Pro, Monarchy/Sonic Impact Hybrid, Yamaha CD.

  28. #28

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    Originally posted by 2+2
    Talking about Polk Specs....



    Is it a sin to quote oneself??:D :D :)
    Yes! You must say 12 "I Love Boses" as pentance!

  29. #29

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    Originally posted by marker
    I see where ya'll are coming from, but I'm not going by specs. I'm going by what actually happened.

    If you ever get the chance, try it with both models, see what happens, and then report back.
    Well, I did this with the RTi150s I had for a while. They're not the RTi12s, but they're pretty damn close, close enough that I'd get the same results with the 12s.

    I did the test with my Denon 3801, and it had a much harder time driving the LSi than it did the 150s - hands down.

    Your results were different than mine, doesn't mean either is wrong. There are too many variables involved to state conclusively one way or the other - i.e. my results with a HK might be different since they do a better job of driving 4 ohm loads...

    My original point wasn't that one result is ultimate truth, just that factors other than power handling and number of drivers need to be taken into account...
    Main HT
    Magnepan 1.6QR fronts, POlk R15 surrounds, Pioneer SC-25, Parasound Halo A23, Oppo BDP-105, Panasonic TC-P60ZT60, Sony PS3, Apple TV

    Bedroom System
    Polk Blackstone TL3, Polk PSWi225 Wireless Sub, HK 3490 Integrated, Oppo BDP-103, Sharp Aquos 32" TV, Apple TV

    Office Rig
    27" iMac w/Amarra, AudioQuest Dragonfly 1.2, Focal XS Book, Schiit Valhalla, Cypher Labs Theorem 720, Philips Fidelio X1, Sennheiser HD600, HiFiMan HE-500, B&W P7, LG 47LM7600, Sony PS3, Apple TV

  30. #30

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    [Crossed fingers]

    I love Boses;I love Boses;I love Boses;I love Boses;I love Boses;I love Boses;I love Boses;I love Boses;I love Boses;I love Boses;I love Boses;I love Boses;

    [Uncrossed fingers]

    Peace out
    System 1: Onix Rockets 750 Sig. Ed., Rotel RC 1070, Rotel RB 1080, Music Hall MMF CD25 w/627opamps

    System 2: LSi15, Marantz SR8400, Rotel 1080, RM6800 (C&S), Yamaha: 2300 Univ. DVD, CDC-625RS.

    System 3: LSi7, Yamaha SW215, HK 230, Elite DV-45A; Sony C445.

    System 4: RTi100, Onkyo TXSV717Pro, Monarchy/Sonic Impact Hybrid, Yamaha CD.

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