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  1. #31

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    Oh my. I have been reduced from a "Newbie at Home Theatre" to a "Sheeple"!

    :)
    Holydoc (Home Theatre Lover)
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  2. #32

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    Quote Originally Posted by McLoki
    Blue Jeans Cable 12 white is cl3r (in wall) and 10 white is cl2 (plenum grade). Cost is .39 and .57 / foot.

    The actual cable is Belden 5000 series; the 10-gauge 5T00UP and the 12-gauge 5000UE

    I am currently running the 10 ga. cable and it sounds great. (running through a fireplace plenum)

    Michael

    Ok, you're opening my eye's thank you McLoki

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  3. #33

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    Quote Originally Posted by Holydoc
    Oh my. I have been reduced from a "Newbie at Home Theatre" to a "Sheeple"! :)
    Nope. A sheeple is a Baaaaaaaaaaaad thing. You at least tried something different and then formed an opinion. Never too late to check things out with the cable swap. Then you too can become an expert like the rest of us.
    "Just because you’re offended doesn’t mean you’re right." - Ricky Gervais

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  4. #34

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    Damn Shack Daddy, GREAT post!!! (the first one)

    DJ, in-wall wire? I haven't a clue, don't use it.
    'Political Correctness'.........defined

    "A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end."

  5. #35

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    F1nut,

    Monster CL3 14/2 wire doesn't look bad for me not sure if the $ is worth it to change it to something else. Run it to my rear surround speakers along wall board moldings, plan on pulling up and around in attic back down rear wall in the future.

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  6. #36

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    There's nothing wrong with using in-wall wire, just get some quality stuff....as in Belden not Monster Cable.

  7. #37

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    Quote Originally Posted by disneyjoe7
    F1nut,

    Monster CL3 14/2 wire doesn't look bad for me not sure if the $ is worth it to change it to something else. Run it to my rear surround speakers along wall board moldings, plan on pulling up and around in attic back down rear wall in the future.
    One thing about the beldin wire from Blue Jeans cable. It is twisted and does not tuck under baseboard like normal speaker cable will. The 10gauge is not very flexible. (for tight turns) I assume the 12 guage will be a little better in this reguard but still nothing like regular speaker cable.

    If you run it in wall I am sure it will be great and I do really like the sound, but if you try to tuck it under or behind mouldings it may not work as well. If you have plenty of room (like in crown mouldings) it should be fine.

    Michael
    Mains.............Polk LSi15 (Cherry)
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  8. #38

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    So it looks like Blue Jeans Cable has an agreement with Belden to make their modified cable. Sort of like Sears Kenmore and who ever agreed to do it their way today thing.

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  9. #39

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    I would really rather not say who the companies are I sell to since it would be in poor taste to comment on peoples preferences or my customers pricing structures. I can tell you that I sell material to a company for less than $1.00 a foot and they charge over $150.00 for a three foot interconnect made from it. It doesnt matter if you want to spend $50 or $5000.00 dollars on a cable, if you think it improves your sound and you can afford it go for it. The fact remains that the majority of people will hear no difference between same gauge cables using OFHC copper and solid interconnects at any price point. I do like the idea of the cable swap program though. It is probably the best way to try out various cables without spending megabucks to do it. I had to learn through trial and error just like a lot of you have.
    Last edited by emcclary; 09-15-2005 at 11:02 AM.

  10. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by ode
    So then why do some other purists swear by BNC cable, which is relatively thin? Is it the shielding?
    BNC cables are only good for signal level stuff, so having relatively small guages isn't a big problem. Most people probably swear by them since BNC connectors offer one of the better contacts out there. It won't fall off, its tight... and that just doesn't sound good in a sick sort of way (must get head out of gutter).

  11. #41

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    Ode - It's BNC connectors, not cable.

    BK - I love BNC just for that purpose, secure and solid connection. I wish more gear used it. Locking RCA's are almost as good but still stress the connector a little and sometimes twist.

  12. #42

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    I recently bought a 250' roll of 4 wire, 65 strand (for bi-wiring my B&W N804) OFC, 14 ga wire in-wall certified from www.impactacoustics.com for $95 shipped. Now, to figure how to run the wire past a fireplace. Anyone have any ideas?

  13. #43

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    Thumbs up monster cables

    I am certain that monster cables come in different gauge. They are great speaker wires. My friend told me another wire company makes a better one
    I don't know the name or company. You have to use good wires for your system.

  14. #44
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    Has anyone ever measured the guage of a Monster Cable speaker wire? I have a feeling the little plastic thing in the middle is counted as part of the size...

  15. #45

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    Quote Originally Posted by bknauss
    Has anyone ever measured the guage of a Monster Cable speaker wire? I have a feeling the little plastic thing in the middle is counted as part of the size...
    I think I read somewhere M is mostly 16 ga.

    Quote Originally Posted by gadgetman
    They are great speaker wires. My friend told me another wire company makes a better one;
    IMO they are "decent" though overpriced consumer grade speaker wires and cables. Much better that the stuff that comes packaged with a lot of equipment and cables that you can buy at Wal-martand so forth. Their top line stuff is on par with a lot of entry level cables from companies like AudioQuest. It's not great but it's not terrible either. There is better stuff for the price point.
    "Just because you’re offended doesn’t mean you’re right." - Ricky Gervais

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  16. #46

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    Monster generally uses 12-16 gauge wire depending on the wire line. Some of them have the gauge listed on the wire jacket others do not.
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  17. #47

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    I gave up all the monster stuff when I saw the plastic filler in the middle and bought some Axiom bulk very fine stranded #12 gauge, nice flexible stuff.
    Denon #2900, Denon stereo receiver, Conrad Johnson Sonographe 120 amp, Blue Jeans cables, and Klipsch RF-7's

  18. #48

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    Unhappy

    Monster is the best but pricy!!!!!! :D :D :D :D
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  19. #49

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    Quote Originally Posted by Pinktulip7
    Monster is the best but pricy!!!!!! :D :D :D :D

    Well, you are half right. It is pricey......

    Michael
    Mains.............Polk LSi15 (Cherry)
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  20. #50
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    I really haven't tried anything else except some cheap speaker wire from home depot and radio shack, but I am now getting great results with 10 guage stranded electrical wire which is $.21 ft. (21 cents a foot) from loews or lowes, I always forget the correct spelling.

  21. #51

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    I'll just jump in here....I used to be on the side of cables not really making much of a difference. But let me briefly explain. Cables make a difference up to a point and really has more to do with your system. A low end reciever w/a low end source hooked to basic speaks with high end cables isn't going to do squat. The sum of the components is not good enough to take advantage of the much more expensive cables. Kind of like putting $1000 worth of tires on a Chevette and then thinking it's going to handle like Corvette.

    The higher up the audio chain you move with your entire system the more of a difference higher priced cables may make. It's also a question of synergy with _your_ system. Some cables that sound great in one system may not sound as good in another.

    Best thing to do is experiment. I got into the cable swap program and have already heard a difference in cables. The diff was instant and distinct. I'm glad my system and my ears are able to detect the difference. Some of the differences are good and some are not so good. It comes down to what you like and how it integrates in your own system.

    If you read the reviews of the cables in the program you will see some of the same characteristics that many have pointed out; to me that may be a particular cables signature. If it is noticed by many who use it, generally you can assume that the cable has that particuliar characteristic. It's still ideal to try it in your own system with your own ears.

    Bottom line cables can make a difference but only you can tell for yourself.

    H9

    P.s. Hasn't all this been said before :p
    "Appreciation of audio is a completely subjective human experience. Measurements can provide a measure of insight, but are no substitute for human judgment. Why are we looking to reduce a subjective experience to objective criteria anyway? The subtleties of music and audio reproduction are for those who appreciate it. Differentiation by numbers is for those who do not".--Nelson Pass

    Pass Aleph 30; Eastern Electric Mini Max; Adcom GDA600; MIT S3/Z Pc; SDA 1C; Squeezebox; Tubes add soul!

  22. #52

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    so how would one go about geting into the cable swap program?

  23. #53

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    Just sign yourself up at the Cable Swap thread: Cable Swap Thread

    Take a look at whats available and post that you want signed up for what ever cable you may be interested in. I think page 24 has the latest in on what cables are available.

    Hope this helps.

    Regards,
    Scott
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  24. #54

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    The cable war continues...

    Well, I would simply say this. Of course you heard a difference going from 22ga to ~16ga. I will go even further to say that you will hear another change from going from 16ga to 10ga.

    But after that you will not hear me say much more about cables. Why, because I had enough EE to know that the import thing is the signal. The perfect cable is the cable that outputs the same signal as it receives as input. So why does the change in gauge so much, mainly because the signal is weaker on the output side then on the input side because higher gauge wire has higher resistance. Other things matter like inductance as well since a high inductance cable will cause the signal to be "muddied" (no easy way to discribe it since some of the energy of the signal is being stored in the cable itself and continuously output back into the signal once the wire has hit its peak capacity, thus interjecting noise into the origional signal). Those are the two main things that will make an actual audible change between speaker wires (well, the third would be shielding if you have a lot of EM interference).

    This is also why you won't see many EE's buy most of the cables that are out on the market that cost $5+ a foot. Most will opt to make their own cables or buy something that has good measurable characteristics (none of this "cryogenicly treated to allign the crystal structure" type things, because when you get down to it, once it is unfrozen, the crystal structure starts to flow again on its own because the material's atoms will continue to flow and move again). Measure the signal output and compair against the signal input. Do a scientific test. That will tell you what is the best cable, not a subjective listening test. Speaker wire should not be used to "color" the sound. Yes, some people will like the sound of some wire over others because of the "coloring" that is occuring, but this is no different then changing settings on an eq.

  25. #55

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    Quote Originally Posted by Fallen Kell
    The perfect cable is the cable that outputs the same signal as it receives as input.
    No such thing

    Quote Originally Posted by Fallen Kell
    Do a scientific test. That will tell you what is the best cable, not a subjective listening test.
    Great idea if you want to stare at a spec sheet. If you want to actually listen to the signal use your ears to determine.
    ;)

    H9
    "Appreciation of audio is a completely subjective human experience. Measurements can provide a measure of insight, but are no substitute for human judgment. Why are we looking to reduce a subjective experience to objective criteria anyway? The subtleties of music and audio reproduction are for those who appreciate it. Differentiation by numbers is for those who do not".--Nelson Pass

    Pass Aleph 30; Eastern Electric Mini Max; Adcom GDA600; MIT S3/Z Pc; SDA 1C; Squeezebox; Tubes add soul!

  26. #56

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    Scientific testing and statistical analysis has determined that 98.371% (with a 1.22% margin of error) of all EEs are totally tone deaf and wouldn't know good sound if it bit them in the ass (the margin of error is slightly higher for this). That's a FACT!
    Last edited by shack; 09-27-2005 at 10:29 PM.
    "Just because you’re offended doesn’t mean you’re right." - Ricky Gervais

    "For those who believe, no proof is necessary. For those who don't believe, no proof is possible." - Stuart Chase

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  27. #57

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    EE's make me giggle.

  28. #58

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    Quote Originally Posted by dorokusai
    EE's make me giggle.
    **ggg..ggg....ggg** me too!

    H9
    "Appreciation of audio is a completely subjective human experience. Measurements can provide a measure of insight, but are no substitute for human judgment. Why are we looking to reduce a subjective experience to objective criteria anyway? The subtleties of music and audio reproduction are for those who appreciate it. Differentiation by numbers is for those who do not".--Nelson Pass

    Pass Aleph 30; Eastern Electric Mini Max; Adcom GDA600; MIT S3/Z Pc; SDA 1C; Squeezebox; Tubes add soul!

  29. #59

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    Quote Originally Posted by shack
    Scientific testing and statistical analysis has determined that 98.371% (with a 1.22% margin of error) of all EEs are totally tone deaf and wouldn't know good sound if it bit them in the ass (the margin of error is slightly higher for this). That's a FACT!
    :D :D :D
    'Political Correctness'.........defined

    "A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end."

  30. #60

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    Quote Originally Posted by shack
    Scientific testing and statistical analysis has determined that 98.371% (with a 1.22% margin of error) of all EEs are totally tone deaf and wouldn't know good sound if it bit them in the ass (the margin of error is slightly higher for this). That's a FACT!
    I hear ya...er...um...I mean I know what you're saying.

    H9
    "Appreciation of audio is a completely subjective human experience. Measurements can provide a measure of insight, but are no substitute for human judgment. Why are we looking to reduce a subjective experience to objective criteria anyway? The subtleties of music and audio reproduction are for those who appreciate it. Differentiation by numbers is for those who do not".--Nelson Pass

    Pass Aleph 30; Eastern Electric Mini Max; Adcom GDA600; MIT S3/Z Pc; SDA 1C; Squeezebox; Tubes add soul!

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