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  1. #61

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    Quote Originally Posted by heiney9
    No such thing



    Great idea if you want to stare at a spec sheet. If you want to actually listen to the signal use your ears to determine.
    ;)

    H9
    Yes, I agree with you that there is no such cable in the analog world. But I also completely and utterly disagree with you about listening to the "cable". I bought the "music" to listen to. I bought the CD-player/turn table/cassette player/DVD-A player/SACD player/ad. infinitum to as "perfectly as can be done" read the "signal" from some form of medium to then get sent to be amplified (with the most "perfect" amplifier affordable) to the "most perfect" speakers affordable to reproduce the "SIGNAL" in its "PURE FORM". NOT have that signal transformed at some point in the way during the transmission process.

    If you like listening to that, fine, but don't call yourself an audiofile in any sense of the word. Yes, you might like good music, and good sound. But the whole idea in a system is to reproduce the sound "as recorded", and how can you do that when you have a cable that changes any signal that goes into it unless you then compensate for that change somewhere else first?

    Yes, there is no perfect cable; yes, there is no perfect speaker; yes, there is no perfect amplifier; yes, there is no perfect transport; yes, there is no perfect media. But everything we do in this hobby strives for that "perfectness". The laws of physics, electrical properties, and signals govern here. Scientifically measured properties are all that are needed to show what cable is in fact the "most perfect". You should do some research and a few blind tests with a bunch of cables, but the problem with your blind listening tests is the fact that you can't A/B that test with the "actual performance", and all you have to go on is what you percieve the performance "should" have sounded like and not how it "actually" was.

  2. #62

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    Quote Originally Posted by Fallen Kell
    But everything we do in this hobby strives for that "perfectness".
    No we don't. We strive for a sound that is pleasing to us....the listener. There is nothing "perfect" about live performance. Amplification, accoustics, background, etc... all can affect a performance. I have heard "live" music that sounds like crap and would NEVER want to hear a "perfect" reproduction of that performance.
    "Just because you’re offended doesn’t mean you’re right." - Ricky Gervais

    "For those who believe, no proof is necessary. For those who don't believe, no proof is possible." - Stuart Chase

    "Consistency requires you to be as ignorant today as you were a year ago." - Bernard Berenson

  3. #63

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    Quote Originally Posted by Fallen Kell
    Yes, I agree with you that there is no such cable in the analog world. But I also completely and utterly disagree with you about listening to the "cable". I bought the "music" to listen to. I bought the CD-player/turn table/cassette player/DVD-A player/SACD player/ad. infinitum to as "perfectly as can be done" read the "signal" from some form of medium to then get sent to be amplified (with the most "perfect" amplifier affordable) to the "most perfect" speakers affordable to reproduce the "SIGNAL" in its "PURE FORM". NOT have that signal transformed at some point in the way during the transmission process.

    If you like listening to that, fine, but don't call yourself an audiofile in any sense of the word. Yes, you might like good music, and good sound. But the whole idea in a system is to reproduce the sound "as recorded", and how can you do that when you have a cable that changes any signal that goes into it unless you then compensate for that change somewhere else first?

    Yes, there is no perfect cable; yes, there is no perfect speaker; yes, there is no perfect amplifier; yes, there is no perfect transport; yes, there is no perfect media. But everything we do in this hobby strives for that "perfectness". The laws of physics, electrical properties, and signals govern here. Scientifically measured properties are all that are needed to show what cable is in fact the "most perfect".
    Spoken like a true EE....Oh boy not sure this is even worth typing becasue you are so far off...tis you that is not the audiophile if all you are worried about is how a component measures. Your source equipment, amp, pre-amp,speak are ALL going to have much more impact in coloring your sound than a simple cable. Simply finding a "colorless" cable isn't going to make the system neutral. I'm not even going to get into room acoustics and source material. If you think it's even possible to closely reproduce recorded sound like it's played in real life then you really need to get in out of the sun.

    Quote Originally Posted by Fallen Kell
    You should do some research and a few blind tests with a bunch of cables, but the problem with your blind listening tests is the fact that you can't A/B that test with the "actual performance", and all you have to go on is what you percieve the performance "should" have sounded like and not how it "actually" was.
    WTF??? This last sentence makes absolutely no sense to me, I don't speak gibberish.

    H9
    "Appreciation of audio is a completely subjective human experience. Measurements can provide a measure of insight, but are no substitute for human judgment. Why are we looking to reduce a subjective experience to objective criteria anyway? The subtleties of music and audio reproduction are for those who appreciate it. Differentiation by numbers is for those who do not".--Nelson Pass

    Pass Aleph 30; Eastern Electric Mini Max; Adcom GDA600; MIT S3/Z Pc; SDA 1C; Squeezebox; Tubes add soul!

  4. #64

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    You obviously put too much weight into science when it comes to audio, and not enough into your own opinion. Isn't hearing, believing? You're choosing a subject to rag on, e.g. cables, that you can easily apply to all the other gear in your rig.

    Is your CDP a WalMart model or a way overpriced "Audiophile" model? Do you rely on specs that the manufacturer provides? Blah Blah Blah.

    You also immediately create your own placebo effect, just like everyone else, and that's not really scientific is it?

    I've read so much blah blah blah about cables and why they sound the same, and why they sound different, that I just don't care anymore. There's nothing that has been said in this forum or at this very moment, that hasn't been said previously....you're not trailblazer.

    Why don't you join the Cable Swap Program and decide for yourself? It's basically free.

    Get your ears on, if they don't show a change....reward yourself with a cookie.
    Last edited by dorokusai; 09-28-2005 at 12:09 AM.

  5. #65

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    I think EE's should not be allowed to own audio gear or at the least not be allowed to post about it.
    'Political Correctness'.........defined

    "A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end."

  6. #66

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    It's the same old rhetoric.

  7. #67

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    Dead....horse.....beat......

    BDT
    I plan for the future. - F1Nut

  8. #68

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    Oh God.

    I'd rather eat a plate of Doro's steaming fecal matter, than try to discuss (HELP) another jughead get the most out of their system. Like we get a kickback or something? I mean, WHAT THE F$%K???
    Check your lips at the door woman. Shake your hips like battleships. Yeah, all the white girls trip when I sing at Sunday service.

  9. #69

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    Quote Originally Posted by TroyD
    Dead....horse.....beat......

    BDT
    Agreed....maybe we should make a sticky with all the links to previous discussions. How many ways can the same things be said....I know..I know I'm guilty of repeating myself. Hell, I'm going to make a list of all MY past posts that deal with common subjects and just start posting the link as my response.
    "Appreciation of audio is a completely subjective human experience. Measurements can provide a measure of insight, but are no substitute for human judgment. Why are we looking to reduce a subjective experience to objective criteria anyway? The subtleties of music and audio reproduction are for those who appreciate it. Differentiation by numbers is for those who do not".--Nelson Pass

    Pass Aleph 30; Eastern Electric Mini Max; Adcom GDA600; MIT S3/Z Pc; SDA 1C; Squeezebox; Tubes add soul!

  10. #70

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    Quote Originally Posted by RuSsMaN
    Oh God.

    I'd rather eat a plate of Doro's steaming fecal matter, than try to discuss (HELP) another jughead get the most out of their system. Like we get a kickback or something? I mean, WHAT THE F$%K???
    It's for the good of mankind, RuSs. Don't you just get a warm fuzzy inside everytime you help someone realize the full potential of their audio dream.

  11. #71

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    I don't mind discussing with people who WANT to pursue hifi or better thier rigs.

    Certainly, those who have made up thier minds, as in this case, knock yourself out.

    BDT
    I plan for the future. - F1Nut

  12. #72

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    I read the cable swap program reviews and was curious about what you guys really talked about. I could only understand 50% of the technical evaluation .... So, I bought a pair of audioquest sidewinder and a pair of signal cable IC's to try. I still don't quite relate what I hear to what you guys said, but the 2 cables do sound different, and I like the way they sound more than my Rat Shack Fusion. Just that, I say they are worth the money because I am the one who listens and paid :-) Why I haven't joined the cable swap porgram? I am afraid that I will find more cables that I like!!!!

    -fredv-

  13. #73

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    Don't forget to replace the wire inside your components that your high-end wire attaches to.
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