SDA1C setup help

[anonymouse]

Gave my SDA1C's a test run today for the first time. They are being driven by a common ground Rotel RB991. Since I do not have the original interconnect, I jury rigged a wire between the pin holes on the rear of both speakers.

The speakers sound amazing without the interconnect. When I put in the interconnect, there does not seem to be the amazing difference that I have heard all of you rave about.

I played with the balance. When sound is going to one speaker, I can hear a signal in the other and vice versa, so it does seem like the SDA effect is on. However, the results are underwhelming. If anything, it seems to muddy up a little and I cannot tell where the instruments/voices are.

Any ideas? Could something be broken in the speakers? I removed one of the tweeters as I was planning on replacing them a while ago with the new ones, and then put it back. Is there a possibility that I wired it out of phase and this is causing the problem? Anybody know how the wires are color coded on the SDA1C's for thr tweeters?

Thanks.

[F1nut]

The tweeters in your speakers have nothing to do with the SDA signal (not an effect), but since you may have them wired wrong. The black or blue is positive and the white or green is negative.

As for the problem you expressed, there is a complete troubleshooting list posted in here somewhere. If you can't find it, call Ken at Polk and ask him to send you a copy.

[F1nut]

I just had an idea. If just one of the SDA mid drivers is wired out of phase that will kill the soundstage, yet will still seem to pass the balance test. The color code is the same as the tweeters.

[SCompRacer]

http://www.polkaudio.com/forums/show...shooting+guide

Post 13.

[RuSsMaN]

Not to state the obvious, but is the right speaker on the right, left on the left as viewed from the listening position?

[F1nut]

Also, do not toe-in. You want them parallel and close to the back wall, at least 6 feet apart and 3 feet from the side walls.

[RuSsMaN]

His listening position and room should dictate how far apart, and from the side walls. I've hit 140-160 degree soundstaging with SDA's 20 inches from side walls, and less than 4 ft apart.

They don't have to be close to the rear wall either, use the rear distance to subtley tune the bass to your own tastes, and combat standing waves in your listening room.

[F1nut]

I've hit 140-160 degree soundstaging with SDA's 20 inches from side walls, and less than 4 ft apart.

That's only because your ears are so far apart.

[RuSsMaN]

No, it's because my hair isn't as stiff and reflective as yours.

[F1nut]

Don't be jealous, I can't help the fact that I can shower, run a towel thru it and have it look so good in less than 30 seconds.

[RuSsMaN]

Yeah, if Hollywood ever decides to do a Barney Miller remake and needs some extras, you're a shoe in.

[F1nut]

That one just isn't working.

[Dennis Gardner]

I think you were taken in by all the hype of SDA. SDA can be subtle when setup isn't perfect, depending on room setup, source, amps, etc. You won't hear a giant leap when making the adjustments yourself. Get a buddie to come over and help you tweak from your listening position until you learn what works for your own set of SDAs and room. It takes awhile to understand what changes can do.

It is a synergistic battle that is only won when all elements concerned lineup to give you that................... Aha!!! Now I get it feeling. I have found my soundstage is at its largest when I am closer to the speakers than I care to listen. With the speakers 6 feet apart, the SDA effect is biggest at 6 feet away from the speakers, and that is simply too close for comfort for me. When put further apart, they lose effect in my room.

Your own mileage may vary, but SDAs can be as difficult to get full advantage of as Maggies, Amazings, and other setup sensitve speakers.

Just my findings, not a knock on SDAs, as I love what mine do, I just had to learn proper setup to maximize the WOW.

[anonymouse]

Thanks guys. Checked left and right speakers - all is/was correct.

The speakers are about 6 ft apart in a 1250 sq ft open basement right now. They are not toed in. They are about 6 inches from one of the walls and about 6 ft from the nearest corner (though not centered on their wall).

They fill the room with sound. Powerful, but not as detailed as the RTi6's or 10's. Still not getting that aha feeling. I will tweak placement and report back later... did not realize they were that sensitive.

[F1nut]

Try to get even distances from the side walls, 6" and 6' isn't going to do it.

What you call detailed on the Rti's I call effing bright/harsh, but still the SDA's shouldn't sound muddy. What other gear are you using?

[anonymouse]

One tweeter was out of phase. Corrected that, which definitely cleaned things up quite a bit. I am using an Adcom GFP500 pre and a modded Tosh 3960 for the source with a Rotel RB991 for amplification. Do not get me wrong - these speakers are amazing, but I cannot quite put my arms around this dimensional effect/signal. To me, its still so what? I spread the speakers further apart, there is now about 8 feet between them. The sound is more spacious. I will go through the checkout sheet next - problem is that Adcom mutes between stations, so I need a broadband noise generator.

[danger boy]

One tweeter was out of phase. Corrected that, which definitely cleaned things up quite a bit. I am using an Adcom GFP500 pre and a modded Tosh 3960 for the source with a Rotel RB991 for amplification. Do not get me wrong - these speakers are amazing, but I cannot quite put my arms around this dimensional effect/signal. To me, its still so what? I spread the speakers further apart, there is now about 8 feet between them. The sound is more spacious. I will go through the checkout sheet next - problem is that Adcom mutes between stations, so I need a broadband noise generator.

that's the problemo right there man.. grab yerself a real CD player.. you'll thank me later. doesn't have to be a $1500 Jolida or anything like that.. a good solid used or new depending on your funds.. I went from THE Toshiba DVD player to a 1989 NAD CDP, and man it made the whole difference in the world.

ANYONE who says a DVD player can sound as good as a stand alone well built CDP is is fool. FOOL i tell ya.
a good CDP and GOOD pair of interconnects from your pre amp to your amp will help a lot too. Stay away from the Monster crap and you'll do great.

The muddiness is coming from using a DVD player. I noticed right away a much more openness and clarity in music when i switched to a stand alone CDP.

that's all i gotta say. I'll never go back to using a DVD player for music listening. to compressed.

[F1nut]

I've gotta agree with Al, try a different source.

[anonymouse]

muddiness is coming from using a DVD player. I noticed right away a much more openness and clarity in music when i switched to a stand alone CDP.

Sound is actually no longer muddy with the tweeter phase corrected. I'm just not getting this dimensional effect. I know the dimensional drivers are working, but my ears are not hearfing much difference between the interconnect in and without.
I will look around for a good used CDP, but I have serious doubts about whether thats gonna do much to get me the SDA feeling.

[shack]

What source material are you using. Not all discs offer a good demonstration of the SDA's potential. I've got some stuff that I'll listen to and think "no big deal" then throw in another and the soundstage moves out about 20 feet. I've often found that well recorded "older" CDs (60s, 70s) have a greater SDA effect. I think it may have something to do with the way the recording engineers paid more attention to the stereo separation back then than they do now.


That said, IMO there is an issue somewhere in the speaker or the setup or the interconnect. Make sure your "jury rig" is correct. I'm not convinced the source gear will have THAT much of an impact since the muddiness has been cleared up and now it is the SDA effect that is missing.

[anonymouse]

Source material... all sorts - a bit of Enigma, Spyrogyra, Dido, various Grammy's CD's, even Bee Gees.

I took apart the entire driver set yesterday to check for phase, and all drivers checked out well.

So then I changed the design of my interconnect a little - I wired up two lengths of 10 ft speaker wire - one to each speaker pin hole interconnect socket. I took the other ends to my listening position. Then at the listening position, with the system on, I connected the ends and disconnected them. My results were strange:
- with the balance control on the pre dead center - I could not tell any significant difference between the interconnect connected or broken
- with the balance slightly to one of the sides - I could definitely tell a difference. A little more spacious, but not something I dropped my jaw at.

Could it be that my room is too large? There are no furnishings in this room. Its just a huge empty basement - 1250 sq ft. Could it be that sound is reflecting off all the walls?

[anonymouse]

bump... come on guys... any insight based on the last set of data? please?

[F1nut]

You've got FRANKENPOLKS

[Tour2ma]

If they sound better with the balance tweaked to the left, they might be Al Franken-polks...

mouse,
Did you download the troubleshooting guide and run through all of the VOM checks?

[anonymouse]

Did some more tweaking on these today. I completely changed the source. Eliminated the Tosh and the Adcom pre and hooked a Roku soundbridge (which has a built in volume control) directly to the Rotel.

The system does show a slight increase in soundstage with the interconnect in - though it is not dramatic. It sounds a little more spacious. I have to believe one of three things:
1) I have believed too much of the hype around this forum on the SDA effect and my expectations were too high (most likely)
2) The room is too big with no furnishings and the SDA's are interacting strangely with the room (likely)
3) These SDA's are defective- they look mint... I did some of the quick tests in the checkout sheet and they seem fine. (least likely)

[dorokusai]

You have a problem within those speakers or you're one of like a handful of people that don't hear it...out of hundreds, if not thousands. It's not hype, don't get angry because you can't figure out the source of the problem.

Just sell them and move on....easy.

If you have to spend this much time trying to get something to work or figure out why it isn't working, sell it.

I think everything useful to you being able to figure out what is wrong with these speakers has been provided, aside from a home visit.

It's very hard to troubleshoot something with words. You may even have a gear issue, but I'm not even going to expound upon that.

SELL THEM AND MOVE ON.

[danger boy]

does someone on here live close to you with a pair of SDA's. something just isn't right with your pair it seems like. everything you've tried seems to not be much of an improvement.. seek someone out who has a pair of SDA's you can listen to.


good luck.

[Tour2ma]

doro, someday you're going to seriously injure me...

mouse,
SDA's are just not that hard to set up. All due respect to Dennis, you may have to tweak to optimize them, but to get Wowed? Easy in my experience, that is unless, as Russ asked way up above:
"Not to state the obvious, but is the right speaker on the right, left on the left as viewed from the listening position?"
You never answered this...

Also I'm looking a second time at your earlier audition list (BeeGee's???) and the only decent SDA demo I see there is the Enigma... and it's not that high on my SDA list. Where's Pink Floyd's Money off of DSOTM? Led Zep's Whole Lotta Love? Yes' Roundabout? The more extreme the swings to the left ch and right ch are, the more you will, or at least should, notice the wide soundstage.

The only other "I don't get this SDA thing" account I can remember around here was brettw auditioning some SRS's in Arizona. We keep telling him there must have been something wrong with them, and after he attended the '04 Carolina PolkFest, he found out we were right.

[anonymouse]

I finally got the 1C's upstairs and into the living room. This made a huge difference. With Dido (Dido), the difference between the SDA cable in and out is remarkable. I have them about 10ft apart, and the listening position is about 12 ft away. Amazing speakers. Thanks to everyone who stuck with me through this. Now I have to think about upgrading the tweeters.

[danger boy]

are you still not impressed with the soundstage and openness? the SDA cable does help no doubt. maybe i'm just used to the ones i have to think any other way than they sound really open and dimensional.

The 1C's are great speakers. no toe in needed with SDA's.