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  1. #1

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    Default 25 yrs ago today.....

    It's tough to comprehend that it's been 25 yrs ago today that John Lennon was shot to death. Time has a way of slipping away some times.

    On the 25th anniversary of his murder, fans brought flowers, candles kls and their own bittersweet memories Thursday as they gathered in Central Park's Strawberry Fields - and in the former Beatle's hometown of Liverpool, England.

    "With the country at war, his work and philosophy seem more poignant and more desperately needed than ever," said Kim Polson, 50.

    Polson, who said she fell in love with the Beatles when she saw them on television at age 8, was an early morning visitor to Strawberry Fields, the section of Central Park opposite the Dakota apartment building where Lennon was gunned down Dec. 8, 1980. About 75 fans, some of them born after Lennon's death, gathered on a cold morning.

    The scene Thursday was much the same in Liverpool, where scores of fans from around the world remembered him with white balloons, flowers and prayers. The balloons, carrying tributes to Lennon, were released into the sky.

    "I just wrote 'Merry Christmas John' on my balloon," said James Andrews, a 9-year-old from Bournemouth, England. "I love the Beatles, and especially John Lennon."

    In New York, locals mingled with visiting tourists in Central Park. One woman sat with a scrapbook she had assembled over the years. Among the floral offerings were a half-dozen white roses and a bough of holly.

    Angie Mulbay, who was born four days after Lennon's slaying, traveled to New York from Columbus, Ohio, w

    ith her 20-year-old sister, Ashley. They planned to spend most of the day in Strawberry Fields.

    "John is very important to me, his music and his message," Mulbay said. "We're here to share the day and meet people with the same interest."


    On that night 25 years ago, Lennon - who had just turned 40 - was returning from a midtown recording studio with his wife, Yoko Ono. In an instant, Mark David Chapman, a fan carrying a copy of J.D. Salinger's "The Catcher in the Rye," opened fire. Police officers put the mortally wounded singer in the back of a squad car, but shortly after arriving a hospital, Lennon was dead.

    Tom Leighton, one of the organizers of an ad-hoc memorial committee, said people attend the vigil for different personal reasons, but "primarily it's to pay our respects and share our grief collectively."

    Fans hold a moment of silence at 10:50 p.m. - the time Lennon was shot - and at 11:15 - the time he is believed to have died. Despite an appeal by Lennon fans, city officials planned to close the park at 1 a.m., as they have for several years.

    Polson, who lives a block from the Dakota, recalled seeing Lennon in a coffee shop four months before he was killed. She stuck around to listen to him talk to a colleague.

    "I came to the office two hours late that morning and my boss was furious, so I said, 'Ask me why I'm late,'" Polson said. "When I told him, he was no longer angry."

    "I'll be late for work again today. John Lennon made me late again," she said.

    Chapman remains in New York's Attica state prison, where his third request for parole was denied in October. He comes up for parole again next year.

  2. #2

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    Some quotes, and a picture of the Imagine memorial at Strawberry Fields when I was there in 2000.


    "Life is what happens to you while you're busy making other plans."

    " Reality leaves a lot to the imagination."

    " The more I see the less I know for sure."

    " Time you enjoy wasting, was not wasted."
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    People are making a bigger deal out of some singer being shot than thousands of Americans dying and hundreds being buried alive at the hands of the Japanese...

    I heard them mention the Pearl Harbor thing in passing yesterday morning, heard nothing but John Lenon this and John Lenon that on the news and radio this morning.

    Not saying enough hasn't been made out of the Pearl Harbor thing (I think Michael Bay pretty much took care of that) - just seems kind of weird with each even taken in true perspective...
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    well all I here down in NC is Earnhardt.
    Earnhardt this, Earnhardt that.



    Grieve who you want to grieve for. It's America, to each his/her own.

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    Ah, Earnhardt - don't even get me started:

    You drive a car 200 MPH for a living 6 inches from other people driving their cars 200 MPH for a living. You do this by choice. It sucks that you're dead, but don't expect any sympathy from me.

    Guy who dies driving a race car (by choice) - not a tragedy
    Guy in the stands who gets killed by a flying chunk of steel from that driver's car - tragedy

    Guy who gets killed bungy-jumping - not a tragedy
    Passer-by who gets killed by flying shrapnal from bungy cord assembly - tragedy

    Guy who gets killed skydiving - not a tragedy
    Guy on walking down the street who get crushed and killed by a falling body from the sky - tragedy

    The above logic doesn't apply to 'hero' figures - people who engage in dangerous tasks out of duty (firefighters, miliraty, etc)
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    Quote Originally Posted by Polkmaniac
    Ah, Earnhardt - don't even get me started:

    You drive a car 200 MPH for a living 6 inches from other people driving their cars 200 MPH for a living. You do this by choice. It sucks that you're dead, but don't expect any sympathy from me.

    Guy who dies driving a race car (by choice) - not a tragedy
    Guy in the stands who gets killed by a flying chunk of steel from that driver's car - tragedy

    Guy who gets killed bungy-jumping - not a tragedy
    Passer-by who gets killed by flying shrapnal from bungy cord assembly - tragedy

    Guy who gets killed skydiving - not a tragedy
    Guy on walking down the street who get crushed and killed by a falling body from the sky - tragedy

    The above logic doesn't apply to 'hero' figures - people who engage in dangerous tasks out of duty (firefighters, miliraty, etc)
    I can not think of any word that ring more true than these.

    If you drink and drive and die - no tragedy
    If you drink and drive and kill some poor bastard on the sidewalk - tragedy.

    I never liked the beatles and still don't, for me the worst part about john lennons death was all the beatles airplay that went on for months.

    It is a tragedy that more was not mentioned about the viscious attack on Pearl Harbor.

    John Lennon was just a man but Perl Harbor was thousands of men and women.
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    And I personally don't have any issues with John Lennon, and would consider his death definitely tragic, my comments were directed solely at the Earnhardt deal. And I do feel people should be able to greive for whoever they want. I just though that this getting more attention than the Pearl Harbor deal was strange...
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    Whoa!

    you can't compare what happen at Pearl Harbor to the death of John Lennon or Earnhardt. Some of you need a reality check. Any event in which lives were lost.. ie: Pearl Harbor, 9-11, etc. is a huge tragedy.

    John Lennon's death can't be compared to those types of losses of course... but why be so upset at people wanting to remember a musician who meant a lot, to alot of people? Who may have changed the face of music and made the world just a smidge better?

    Give it a rest. Today is the 25th anniversary of John Lennon's death by a crazed individual, why can't that remembered without causing controversery?

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    Perhaps you don't find it tragic b/c you're not personally affiliated with them.

    If it was your brother, sister, father, whomever that died from skydiving or the like (legal activities) you would sing a different song. Even if it was something that was illegal, I bet you would sing a different song.
    Go tell a dead skydiver's wife and kid that his death wasn't a tragedy, or give the eulogy at your brother's funeral and say his drug abuse wasn't a tragedy.

    There are many factors to take into account, not just the ones that reside in your own little cloud of judgement. Don't dumb the whole process down by saying "This is a tragedy, that is not" because I say so.

    One dimensional thinking at it's worst.

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    It is all personal opnions.
    My opnions were not meant to offend anyone, they are just my opnions.
    Please do not be offended.
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    Geez guys...relax a bit. You took my comments way overboard and you know it. Show me where I was "upset at people wanting to remember a musician who meant a lot". I'm looking through this thread, just can't seem to find it anywhere...

    All I did was comment on how I've noticed that the JL things seems to be getting more news than the Pearl harbor thing - that's it. Read into that all you want...and go ahead and stick some more words in my mouth while you're at it - it's all good.
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    Wow, you people are some cold motherfu***rs.

    Why does one "tragedy" have to diminish another? The anniversary of Pearl Harbor, one of the biggest tragedy's in our nations short history, was commemorated around the country on a national scale. The death of John Lennon is commemorated on the radio amongst fans of his music. Whether you like him or the Beatles or not, don't go badmouthing people for making thier own decisions on what to remember and how to remember it. The majority of the country didn't recognize EITHER event, why don't you go talk **** to them, instead of stomping on someone trying to remember an artist who was gunned down?

    EDIT: Just read PMs comment, and while you didn't specifically "get upset at people wanting to remember a musician who meant a lot", I just think it was the wrong tiem to say it. If you came in here and said someone in your family died and the next post I said "well do n't forget it's Pearl Harbor Day, that's a much bigger deal" it would be pretty rude. Not exactly the same thing, but I think you can see what I mean.
    Last edited by bobman1235; 12-08-2005 at 01:46 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by aaharvel
    Perhaps you don't find it tragic b/c you're not personally affiliated with them.

    If it was your brother, sister, father, whomever that died from skydiving or the like (legal activities) you would sing a different song. Even if it was something that was illegal, I bet you would sing a different song.
    Go tell a dead skydiver's wife and kid that his death wasn't a tragedy, or give the eulogy at your brother's funeral and say his drug abuse wasn't a tragedy.

    There are many factors to take into account, not just the ones that reside in your own little cloud of judgement. Don't dumb the whole process down by saying "This is a tragedy, that is not" because I say so.

    One dimensional thinking at it's worst.
    You need to ease up just a bit. There's no need to get belligerant and call my thinking 'one dimensional' - that's uncalled for.

    I didn't say people shouldn't feel sorrow or loss when a race car drive dies. If my brother died driving a race car, sure I'd feel sorrow and loss, and maybe it would be a tragedy to me. But in the grand scheme of things, the death of the guy killed by shrapnal is more 'tragic' than the car drive, because death for the car drive is more of an implied risk given his profession.

    Maybe tragedy isn't the word I'm looking for, but I think you understand the spirit of what I was trying to say...
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    Jesus Christ guys!

    I just made a simple observation that I thought it was strange that John Lenon day seems to be a bigger deal than Pearl Harbor day. That's IT!

    I never did any 'badmouthing people for making thier own decisions on what to remember and how to remember it' or anything along those lines. I never said I didn't like the Beatles, I love the Beatles...

    I never said I had any issue whatsoever with someone starting a thread about the subject. Hell, someone started a thread about the Pearl Harbor day - so what kind of sense would it be to make that point anyway, it wouldn't apply here on the forum.

    Go back and read my original post, it's unedited - I specifically addressed the situation form the 'news and radio' standpoint - I know, because I was sitting right here when I typed it...

    I'm sorry it pissed everyone off. For all those of you who are related to John lenon or whose lives were directly negatively impacted by his passing, please accept my apologies. I did not intend to make light of the death of one of the most popular songwriters this world will ever know.
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    In the spirit of John Lennon, let's all give peace on Club Polk a chance :D
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    They're playing the old MNF broadcast with Howard Kosel (sp) on the Dan Patrick show...
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    back peddle, back peddle,, i read the same thing Bobman..
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    Are we down to 2 more bullets before an official reunion?

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    I'm not back peddling - I have not changed any more my posts, nor will I. If you've honestly read everything I've said and still feel that way, then we have nothing further to say to each other.

    I was trying to interject some positive engergy into this thread with my previous post, but it appears Cliff doesn't want that...

    You guys read what you want in to what I said, I know what I said and what I meant, and I think you really do also...
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    That damm cliff!! He doesnt want harmony and world peace.. ass clown :D
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    I wasn't offended at what you said Polkmaniac, your Pearl Harbor argument is not only understandable but it's true to the bone. However, I would have chosen a different way in honoring those who died at Pearl Harbor then simply downplaying someone else's regret of a death that may not affect you in the same way as it does them. That's my opinion on the issue.

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    I think that because Pearl Harbor and Lennons murder happened so close together in dates (not year of course), they tend to get mixed up with one another. For me, Lennons murder is more relevant to me because I was alive when it happened and still remember where I was and what I was doing at the time. Pearl Harbor happened 28 years before I was born and therefore, is not as emotionally relevant for me. Thats does not mean it doesn't effect me as an American and I don't think we should ever forget that terrible day. But for me 9/11 is my generations Pearl Harbor and therefore is more relevant becuase we lived through it. That being said, I love the Beatles and John Lennons music. His death was a tragedy and I think he did try to make the world a better place in his own small way. Just my 2 cents.
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    I think they are all mad at me, not Polkmaniac.

    I sould have kept my opnion to myself.

    I started the Pearl Harbor post because it is improtant to me that we as Americans never forget the wrong doings that happen to us nor the "evil doers" that do them.

    John Lennon was not an "evil doer" I just did/do not think the music that he preformed was all that great. I have never really listened to much of it but from what I heard on the radio growing up I do not see what all the hype was about.
    And perhaps it was actually all the hype that drove me away. I seem to move away from many things that are mainstream or super popular.

    So in closing I will say that I am sorry if I offended anyone and even sorrier that I am old enough to remember this event.
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    All I tried to do was to remind people that John Lennon was shot and killed today. That's all. not start WWIII.

    Pearl Harbor was not a "thing".

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    Agreed Pearl Harbor is not a 'thing'. That statement in my original post was my subconcious stab at the reaction to Pearl Harbor yesterday.

    Think of my original post more along the lines of 'they should have done more on Pearl harbor yesterday' rather than 'No one should care that John Lenon died'. I only mentioned the two together because it allowed me to illustrate my point using perspective.
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    aaharvel, it wasn't my intention to downplay the death of John Lenon, see above post.

    Now the whole tragedy / non-tragedy thing was directed solely at the Earnhardt deal and not the John Lenon and I stated that before anyone had a chance to think otherwise - that was just a derail because I've never understood the fascination with the Earnhardt deal...
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  27. #27
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    i've never understood the Earnhardt obsession either, though in NC he is WAS regarded as an icon. I'm sure his family thinks of his death as a tragedy.

    Again, I don't understand the Earnhardt hoopla so therefore I don't think it's a tragedy, however I'm in no position to pass judgement on how & or why his family or friends, or those within the Nascar circle believe otherwise. Why?Because i'm not in his family, not one of his friends, and not in the Nascar circle. :)
    Last edited by aaharvel; 12-08-2005 at 04:50 PM.

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    Yeah, in retrospect, the word tragedy was not really what I was looking for. I was trying to make the point that someone dying doing an activity where death is a significant risk is different than someone being killed by a meteor falling out of the sky. - at least from an outside perspective.

    It sucks that the guy in Spain dies by getting trampled by a bull. But he signed up for the Bull Running event, so he kinda had that coming.
    The guy sitting in his living room watching the Bull run on TV that gets killed by a drunk driver driving through his house - well that REALLY sucks.

    I don't know either one, but I'm gonna 'feel' alot more for the guy who died of some freak accident than the guy who kinda had it coming.

    Or to at least try to get this thread back on topic...

    The musician who drinks and drugs himself to death - not so 'tragic' to me as an outsider because he did that to himself.
    The musician who is murdered like John was, well that's very tragic to me, even as an outsider, because it just doesn't seem fair.

    Maybe it all boils down to fairness with me, maybe that's what it is...
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  29. #29
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    nah i'd say you pretty much hit the nail on the head with that one, especially with the dumbass and the bulls.

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    Not the "nail" that needs hitting on the head in this thread...

    BTW... XM radio has been running a nice Lennon retrospective since 21:00 CST.
    More later,
    Tour...
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