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  1. #271

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    I am moving to a new place and the room is all tile and the ceilings are around 10 feet high. Its about 20x20 and I will be about 9 feet from my 50' plasma.

    Currently I have a nice Denon 985s (100watts per channel), a Velodyne 10' subwoofer and Polk R series all around (R50's in front, CSM center, and R15's in the rear)

    I do care about my sound and I would like to upgrade to a better line of polks. I was looking at adding the Rti10's in front and a CSi3 as the center, but I started thinking about how I want a nice sleek living room and started looking at the Surroundbar50. How much performance am I giving up by going with the 50?

    I could add a rear 6th channel in my new room to help fill in the rear.

    I just want an upgrade from the R50's and not a downgrade just to get a sleek look.

    What do you think?

    Thanks,

    Joe

  2. #272

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    Default SB vs. SB50?

    Getting close to pulling the trigger on a SB, and for me the decision is down to: is it worth it to spend the extra $300-400 for the SB50? I have the wife factor and a very old house going so not looking at 5.1 or 7.1 systems.

    Would really appreciate any thoughts. I've read this thread back to when SB50 was introduced and there are a few folks that said the SB50 is a big improvement, but any specifics would be great. I've also read a ton of (mostly positive) reviews on both but few actual comparisons.

    Some details on my setup:
    - room is relatively small, 21'x18, and couches are far from the back/side walls...seats are 10-12' from the TV
    - have a pretty decent 46" LCD HDTV, and a decent 7.1 Onkyo receiver (SR605); just purchased a 10" Dayton subwoofer
    - room has L-shaped couches, so listening area is about 9' from far seat on one couch to far seat on other.
    - will be watching TV/movies much more than listening to music

    So a couple specific questions I'm thinking through:
    - is the soundfield on the SB50 significantly larger that it will improve the experience for those not sitting directly in front of the tv?
    - I'm not an audiophile (but like most I do enjoy a good experience), so may not notice subtle differences. For my size room is the SB likely to suffice?
    - Any other differentiators to consider?

    Thanks in advance!

  3. #273

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    Quote Originally Posted by svtjoe View Post
    I am moving to a new place and the room is all tile and the ceilings are around 10 feet high. Its about 20x20 and I will be about 9 feet from my 50' plasma.

    Currently I have a nice Denon 985s (100watts per channel), a Velodyne 10' subwoofer and Polk R series all around (R50's in front, CSM center, and R15's in the rear)

    I do care about my sound and I would like to upgrade to a better line of polks. I was looking at adding the Rti10's in front and a CSi3 as the center, but I started thinking about how I want a nice sleek living room and started looking at the Surroundbar50. How much performance am I giving up by going with the 50?

    I could add a rear 6th channel in my new room to help fill in the rear.

    I just want an upgrade from the R50's and not a downgrade just to get a sleek look.

    What do you think?

    Thanks,

    Joe
    Quote Originally Posted by kfanning9 View Post
    Getting close to pulling the trigger on a SB, and for me the decision is down to: is it worth it to spend the extra $300-400 for the SB50? I have the wife factor and a very old house going so not looking at 5.1 or 7.1 systems.

    Would really appreciate any thoughts. I've read this thread back to when SB50 was introduced and there are a few folks that said the SB50 is a big improvement, but any specifics would be great. I've also read a ton of (mostly positive) reviews on both but few actual comparisons.

    Some details on my setup:
    - room is relatively small, 21'x18, and couches are far from the back/side walls...seats are 10-12' from the TV
    - have a pretty decent 46" LCD HDTV, and a decent 7.1 Onkyo receiver (SR605); just purchased a 10" Dayton subwoofer
    - room has L-shaped couches, so listening area is about 9' from far seat on one couch to far seat on other.
    - will be watching TV/movies much more than listening to music

    So a couple specific questions I'm thinking through:
    - is the soundfield on the SB50 significantly larger that it will improve the experience for those not sitting directly in front of the tv?
    - I'm not an audiophile (but like most I do enjoy a good experience), so may not notice subtle differences. For my size room is the SB likely to suffice?
    - Any other differentiators to consider?

    Thanks in advance!
    Not sure on a lot of your questions as I am yet to get a surroundbar. I have been doing a lot of research and it sounds like the 50 is well worth the extra money over the standard original bar.

    We have some similar questions, I hope an expert can chime in.

    I really want a nice loud and clean system...I have solid equipment, I just hope the bar doesnt sound cheap.

  4. #274

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    Quote Originally Posted by svtjoe View Post
    Not sure on a lot of your questions as I am yet to get a surroundbar. I have been doing a lot of research and it sounds like the 50 is well worth the extra money over the standard original bar.

    We have some similar questions, I hope an expert can chime in.

    I really want a nice loud and clean system...I have solid equipment, I just hope the bar doesnt sound cheap.
    hey
    i was originally looking for a sleek alternative to running wires and a whole lot of speakers. My SB is connecting to a decent receiver and sub, and the sound is great. neutral and faithful. the sound stage is wide but not encompassing.

    I had a proper PA 5.1 set up previously and while more enveloping was muddy in comparison. for you i think you will find the front sound to be an upgrade, but you will need to maintain your rears to give you the fuller surround experience. the SB can handle a LOT of volume without distrortion.

    Those people off axis will not be as envelped as your current setup. Make no mistake about this. sb are great speakers, and the sound great (you may see a lot of members finding them at clearance prices) but you really must want to have the wife friendly look to be able to justfy the narrower sound stage. By maintaining your rears, you will likely have the best of both worlds.

  5. #275

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    Quote Originally Posted by jps View Post
    I would like to solicit advise on adjusting my HT system. I would like to purchase a new center channel speaker, one that fits better with my LCD TV. If I opt for the SurroundBar, can I still use the HT speakers that are mounted in the ceiling and my Polk sub? Or, can you recommend a better center channel solution?
    Thanks
    yes you can use the surroundbar for the center but it is better suited to use as a surround replacement. if you have in ceiling speakers are they at the back where they can be used as surrounds? front mains should not be used as the surroundbar will have better imaging for the fronts. a good sub is necessary.

  6. #276

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    Quote Originally Posted by triguy3 View Post
    hey
    i was originally looking for a sleek alternative to running wires and a whole lot of speakers. My SB is connecting to a decent receiver and sub, and the sound is great. neutral and faithful. the sound stage is wide but not encompassing.

    I had a proper PA 5.1 set up previously and while more enveloping was muddy in comparison. for you i think you will find the front sound to be an upgrade, but you will need to maintain your rears to give you the fuller surround experience. the SB can handle a LOT of volume without distrortion.

    Those people off axis will not be as envelped as your current setup. Make no mistake about this. sb are great speakers, and the sound great (you may see a lot of members finding them at clearance prices) but you really must want to have the wife friendly look to be able to justfy the narrower sound stage. By maintaining your rears, you will likely have the best of both worlds.

    Awesome! What 5.1 system did you have? Speakers + AVR?

    Thanks,

    Joe

  7. #277

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    hi svtjoe.

    i had R150's at the four corners and I was using the speaker inside the TV as the center channel, all connected to my HK AVR140 (5.1) and the Velodyne DPS-10B Subwoofer. 2 of the the PA R150's were relegated to the basement (stereo only system) i have now on a sony 32" LCD.

  8. #278

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    Cool! Well I pulled the trigger on the SB50. Should be here this week. I am selling my R50's :( and R15's and CSM.

    New house, modern, and the SB50 should work good. I went and tested the SB360 and it was nice..not super loud, but the 50 connected to my Denon should rock with my Velodyne Sub.

    Thanks and I will let you know how it sounds!

  9. #279

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    i am sure you will be thrilled by the look and the sound. let us know how it sounds. when you hook it up you may find it a bit confusing.
    there are two ways to hook up, and you may find you have to try it both ways. i found the method that they recommend sounds better than the way i would have imagined. let me know when you get into it. you will see that their recommendations are a bit odd. there is a whote paper on the topic earlier in this thread i think.

  10. #280

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    Smile

    Aloha!

    We've just moved to our new home and purchased SB50 which recommends 150 watts/channel. I have purchased Onkyo TX-SR806 with 130 watts/channel. Do I have enough power or should I get more powerful reciever?

    Also, picked up the DSW MicroPRO™ 1000 and wondering if I should have gone with better sub.

    Our room measures approx. 21x 15 x 9, hardwood floors with television centered on 21 feet wall.

    Any inputs, ideas, and/or suggestions would be greatly appreciated! Thank you for your time.

    Mahalo!
    Last edited by opusx100; 01-23-2009 at 05:20 AM.

  11. #281

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    I think your reciever should be great. I am going to upgrade the speaker wirre from the start ( I need to run it through the wall anyway)

    I am thinking about 14AWG. People mentioned it did wonders on the old Surroundbar.

    Opusx: Thats an awesome sub. I wish I could find a deal on one of those. I have a Velodyne 10 and it is fantastic for HT, but a tad slow for music (I love music). I will have to Demo the Micropro.

    We should post pics of our setups so everyone can see how it looks on the wall.

  12. #282

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    Opus - Great setup...stick with what you got.

  13. #283

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    Post Why No info

    My friend is keen on buying this system, worried on 2 aspects,
    why is there no mention of details on
    Part A
    1. Overall frequency response
    2. Sensitivity
    3. Power output
    4. Are these 2 1/2" Full range drivers better than SB 50 Driver complement
    of individual Mid woofer and tweeter.
    Part B
    Will this Dvd player play all sort disc formats.
    Request Mr. Eric or Mr. Ken to reply on this, or if any members who have bought this has a manual with these details can post this.
    Thanks in Advance.

  14. #284

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    svtjoe and dorokusai, thanks for the input! It won't be here until early Feb. but started to read up on the manuals already. Thanks once again!

  15. #285

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    Default dont know what happened to the answers

    Answers please :(
    Quote Originally Posted by jacob.simpson View Post
    My friend is keen on buying this system, worried on 2 aspects,
    why is there no mention of details on
    Part A
    1. Overall frequency response
    2. Sensitivity
    3. Power output
    4. Are these 2 1/2" Full range drivers better than SB 50 Driver complement
    of individual Mid woofer and tweeter.
    Part B
    Will this Dvd player play all sort disc formats.
    Request Mr. Eric or Mr. Ken to reply on this, or if any members who have bought this has a manual with these details can post this.
    Thanks in Advance.

  16. #286

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    I would like to know the wattage on the surroundbar360 as well.

    I recieved my Surroundbar50 hooked it up to my My Denon 2805 and Velo CHT10 and the sound is awesome. It gets so loud on pure direct mode! Clear highs, tight mids..but as stated it needs the sub, just as the Sub needs the SB.

    Break in period.. I played with it and went to -12 yesterday for a while, watched a movie or two at good volume and then went Pure Direct at near refrence volume for a tad today and it was fantastic. BUT, did I hurt anything going that high so early? These drivers are tiny compared to the RTi or LSI line, so I would think break in would be less of an issue (just dont want to hurt the speaker)
    Thanks,

    Joe

  17. #287

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    Default These questions pertain to SB360

    Please sombody reply :(
    Quote Originally Posted by jacob.simpson View Post
    Answers please :(

  18. #288

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    Default thoughts on lossless and surroundbar

    I just got ahold of my surroundbar yesterday and paired it with a Marantz 5002 and a PSW10(for now, PSW1000 is on the way) and wondered if anyone else had had good luck with lossless audio from bluray sources. Not to say I've had bad luck but I have only just begun to tweak the surroundbar and receiver and was just looking for some other thoughts on setup. I run bluray through ps3 via HDMI, 14g wire to SB and have been going back and forth with line level and speaker level for the sub. I have a center channel from another system I once had that I was going to use when I finish moving my furniture to add some xtra to the rear. My biggest concern is what to do with the lossless signal since the SB has filters in it. Does this limit what you can do with DD HD or DTS HD? So far I've only had time to skip around through Pirates 3 and went back and forth with different settings. I know that every room is different as well as a persons preferance so it will take some time to adjust to my full liking, just wondered who else has run HD audio with the SB and what settings they liked. Thanks.

  19. #289

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    Default SurroundBar & PSW10 review

    I purchased my 42" SurroundBar back in April 2007 in a package deal from Amazon.com that included the PSW10 subwoofer. After listening to it for 21 months I am forming some opinions about how well the SurroundBar fits with my system and how well satisfied I am with it. Many of the defects that I list below I believe are the fault of the receiver, not the SurroundBar. I include them to show where a system can go wrong and to solicit advice about where to make improvements in my system.

    First, my system specs:
    Yamaha RX-V496 AV receiver (purchased in 2000)
    Sharp Aquos LC-37D62U LCD TV 1080p (2007)
    Akai AP-206 Direct Drive turntable with Audio-Technica AT14Sa cartridge
    MacBook Pro 2.16 GHz (2006) for iTunes (optical audio out to AVR for 5.1 channel audio)
    OWC Neptune Pioneer 107 DVR for CDs and DVDs (Firewire connection to MBP)
    Stereo pair of custom 3-way speakers built in 1983 by an audio enthusiast friend
    Ears: 56 year old standard issue; tinnitus in left channel due to 25 years of unprotected power tool noise.


    The TV and equipment had to go into a corner of my 13' x 19' living room, the right wall being only 2'-9" next to an 8' opening to the dining room. This made setting up a true 5.1 channel system somewhat impractical so I thought I would give the SurroundBar a try.

    The SurroundBar is solidly built and the set up instructions were clear. The speaker wire connections are a little hard to get at with the SB on the table stand. The supplied 10 conductor ribbon cable is stiff and can be hard to maneuver through tight spaces. I cut off a 5' length and hoped I wouldn't need more than 20' in any future set up. In the first set up I passed the leads through the holes in the speaker posts and overtightened the nuts that secure them, thus severing the 18g wires. After cleaning out the little shreds of wire from around the posts and restripping the wires I just finger tightened them gently. Next time I wire them I will add banana plugs on the receiver end and spade terminals on the speaker end.

    The SurroundBar sits on the TV stand 23" off the floor, angled slightly upward toward those 56 year old ears; the TV mounted just a half inch above on a swiveling post attachment. I would like to contrive an extra mount for the SB so that it can swivel with the TV and accommodate different viewing positions. Per Polk's recommendation I wired the PSW10 in parallel with the left & right front channels. In the AVR set up I set all the speakers to Large and Bass Out to Main (which sends all bass and LFE channel to the left and right front speaker output). There is also a pink noise test generator in the AVR which I used to balance the 5 channels for equal volume. I opened a Netflix account and sat back to enjoy some movies.

    And I did enjoy them. This is my first big HD TV and it sure beat my old 27" Curtiss Mathes console (ca.1979 purchased at a yard sale in 1994). Big, beautiful picture with a big sound from the SurroundBar. I have some trouble understanding dialog in noisy scenes so I boosted the center channel +6db which helped. (Try doing that at Century 21!) The subwoofer put out satisfying thumps that I had never heard before on my old stereo VCR setup.

    Still, I was aware that the soundstage was nowhere near the 180 degree width that other reviewers reported. Perhaps only 90 degrees, a couple of feet beyond either end of the SurroundBar. Over the past 18 months I studied these forums and reviews as well as the Yamaha manual and gradually educated myself about surround sound. Several suggestions were to boost the output of the surround channels anywhere from +4 to +12 db. I tried that and eventually settled on +6 db. I found a separate addendum in the SB paperwork, which I had overlooked, saying to set the surround delay to 15 milliseconds. And here is where it got really tricky.

    The Yamaha AVR has 23 different digital sound field processor programs (DSP) for 2 channel stereo, 2 channel Dolby Digital, 5.1 channel Dolby Digital and 5.1 channel DTS. They have names like "DTS DIGITAL SUR/Normal", 70mm SCI-FI" or "DGTL ADVENTURE", along with some advertising bunkum describing them. There is even one called "CECIL B DEMILLE RELIGIOUS SPECTACLE". No kidding, check it out. Each of these DSP programs has its own surround delay setting as well as other programming intended to mimic various types of sound fields found in movie theaters. These delay settings can be adjusted for each individual DSP program by pressing the right buttons on the remote in just the right order. You can also override the volume settings made in the earlier pink noise test by pressing other buttons. Do it wrong and you can get the surround effects hopelessly screwed up. I know I did. Talk about interactive television, watching TV has never been so complicated. Whew!

    I found the chart in the Yamaha manual which lists the delay settings for all the DSP programs and got things straightened out. I also found some programs had that 15 ms delay recommended in the addendum and tried that. Voilá - nearly 160 degrees of surround sound goodness. It even goes to 180 sometimes. Not liking these particular DSP programs I went back to plain ordinary "DOLBY DIGITAL/Normal" and raised its delay from 5 to 15 ms. I recently watched Master and Commander again just for the cannon shots and was completely satisfied that the SurroundBar and subwoofer did what it was supposed to do. The cannons had impact and a spatial dimension without being overly directional. Battle scene noises seemed to come from all over the sound stage. Creaking boat and wind noises sounded just right to me. I forgot all about the SB and AVR and just sat back and enjoyed the movie.

    Listening to 2 channel audio is less satisfying. The Yamaha RX-V496 has three DSP programs for translating stereo input to some kind of surround sound: DISCO, ROCK CONCERT, and CONCERT HALL. These add to the width of the sound stage, which is much needed since the left and right channels are less than 3' apart. Too bad the DSP effects are often unlistenable. They add Yamaha sound engineering on top of whatever the recording engineers did; the result sometimes sounds right, but often it's just a muddle. Turning the DSP effect off leaves a much narrower sound stage, but a more listenable sound. So my solution has been to connect up my old custom built speaker pair on the AVR's B channel. The sound quality is not so good; the old speakers have an oboe-like timbre to them (saxophone, if you want to be cruel), where the SurroundBar is more neutral.

    Listening to stereo recordings at higher volumes (-28db) on the SurroundBar is also not so good. I overlooked the recommended amplification specification before I bought; it's 125 watts/channel. My AVR is rated at 70 watts. The result is distortion; with classical music high register violins get shrieky and classical piano music starts to sound clangy. So I have to turn it down. On the plus side, when the choice is popular music, with the DISCO DSP, the results can be terrific. I especially like Dire Straits and Joan Armatrading at full volume.

    The PSW10 subwoofer is OK with surround sound, providing the very low end thump for explosions and such. Musically it will sometimes pick up notes, sometimes not. It required a lot of trial positioning to keep it from booming in my living room. It ended up a few feet to the left of the TV up on concrete blocks padded with self adhesive felt between the sub and the block and between the block and the floor. This way I can turn it up higher for LFE without rattling the windows. I need to adjust the volume practically for each source and try to keep it just shy of booming. Why not put the volume and crossover knobs on the front where we can get at them easily?

    I can give the SurroundBar/PSW10 combination 5 stars for home theater use in a difficult corner. It achieves the effect for which it was designed. 3 stars for home audio with the possibility of improvement in different system. This combination can be found at Polk Audio Direct on eBay for $300+100 shipping. It's well worth the price.

    This brings me to my main question: What improvement should come next? A different receiver? At 9 years old it may just be tired. Can anyone recommend a receiver (under $500) that plays music well on the SurroundBar? Is there one with a better 2 channel DSP program that would work well with the SB? The website for NAD claims to have a different, more musical approach to DSP. Can anyone comment on this? Or should I get a very good stereo pair for the B channel on my current Yamaha? I am thinking of the RTi A3. If I did that could I wire the subwoofer in parallel with both A & B channels without harm. I would like any solution to work well with classical music and keep the total number of components in that corner to a minimum.

    So you actually read all the way through this. Thank you.

    Jim

  20. #290

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    Jim,

    Awesome write up. I am still tweaking my SB50. I really like it but I currently have a wall directly behind me which kills the effect. If I move up a couple of feet, it is great. I am moving in two weeks and will have a new setup in the house and I cant wait to mount the SB under the plasma. I have played with the height and I am thinking about mounting it above the plasma..

    I am not sure how that will effect the sound.

    Also, I have 12awg wire ready to go for the new house, along with power conditioners for my Denon AVR (100 watts per channel). I am thinking that the power and wire should help.

    Dialog is sometimes tough to here. Your recommendation is right on as far as the incrase of the center channel.


    I would look at the Mid Range Denon's and the new Yamahas. You could find 110 watts per channel in your range.

    Upgrade the wire as I hear you get more sound (will find out in a week or so).

    The settings on my reciever for delay are in feet, not time delay.
    I need to find a chart.


    Thanks,

    Joe

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    Upgrade the wire as I hear you get more sound (will find out in a week or so).
    Below, is from of our discussion at DHC:
    There is no real reason to use to large speaker wire, but if it's cheap I guess why not...

    From BCAE site:

    Quote:
    Resistance in Speaker Wire:
    Many people are told that they need to use very large speaker wire to prevent a noticeable loss in output. For most situations, 16g speaker wire is absolutely fine. In the following calculator, you can see just how little loss you'll have with a given wire size. Keep in mind that 1 dB is generally the minimum difference you'll be able to hear. If the loss is less than 1dB, you'll never hear it.
    Here is a handy Calculator (http://www.bcae1.com/images/swfs/spe...rassistant.swf) to find all you need to know about your wire run at any length and gauge.

    Assuming a 100 WPC receiver a 10ft run of 16 gauge will have a loss of 0.09db, 12 gauge lowers it to 0.03db. Since anything less than 1db is undetectable to human hearing it really doesn't give you any advantage to go thick.
    For our purpose here, let's take jimbo1421's receiver value and do the exercise to see what kind of an improvement he would get with 12 gage versus the included 18 gage cable assembly: http://www.bcae1.com/images/swfs/spe...rassistant.swf

    For use with 18 gage wire the values are as follow: 70 watts @ 20 feet cable w/18 gage wire @ 8 ohms impedance = 0.27 db loss...

    For use with 12 gage wire the values are as follow: 70 watts @ 20 feet cable w/12 gage wire w/8 ohms impedance = 0.07 db loss

    this means your gain for using such a larger wire is only a difference of 0.20 db loss. Not even a1 db difference! NOTE: You need to approximately double the db rating in order to experience a small increase of about 10 watts. Can you imagine, we are pretty far from this result. When Polk's engeeners developped the bar I would imagine they did consider that the cabling being so short was playing in their favor and thus not requiring such powerfull drivers nor receivers to accomplish the task!

    jimbo1421, your receiver is actually more of a threath to damage your SB being underpowered compared to a receiver with much more closer match since the distorsion spikes coming from the receiver can be very harmfull to your receiver. In order to operate the SB safely with your receiver, it shouldn't be powered that much more than let's say 1/2 power. If you like the Yamaha, the HTR-6160 (http://www.yamaha.ca/av/PDFs/Receive...0_Brochure.pdf ) and above (http://www.yamaha.ca/av/PDFs/Receive...0_Brochure.pdf) would be a good match for the bar and your overall set-up. I personnally think the RM series (which the SB uses the same drivers)

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    Hi, Technokid,

    Thanks for taking the time to work through these numbers. I had read similar remarks elsewhere but was thinking of upgrading to 16 or 12 gage the next time I had the system apart just to see what happened. I think I will skip that now. Remember I cut a 5 foot length of the 25 foot, 18 gage ribbon cable supplied by Polk since the AVR is so close to the TV.

    Quote Originally Posted by TECHNOKID View Post
    Below, is from of our discussion at DHC:For our purpose here, let's take jimbo1421's receiver value and do the exercise to see what kind of an improvement he would get with 12 gage versus the included 18 gage cable assembly:

    [snip]

    this means your gain for using such a larger wire is only a difference of 0.20 db loss. Not even a1 db difference! NOTE: You need to approximately double the db rating in order to experience a small increase of about 10 watts. Can you imagine, we are pretty far from this result. When Polk's engeeners developped the bar I would imagine they did consider that the cabling being so short was playing in their favor and thus not requiring such powerfull drivers nor receivers to accomplish the task!

    jimbo1421, your receiver is actually more of a threath to damage your SB being underpowered compared to a receiver with much more closer match since the distorsion spikes coming from the receiver can be very harmfull to your receiver. In order to operate the SB safely with your receiver, it shouldn't be powered that much more than let's say 1/2 power. If you like the Yamaha, the HTR-6160 (http://www.yamaha.ca/av/PDFs/Receive...0_Brochure.pdf ) and above (http://www.yamaha.ca/av/PDFs/Receive...0_Brochure.pdf) would be a good match for the bar and your overall set-up. I personnally think the RM series (which the SB uses the same drivers)
    This concerns me more. These days I never turn the volume up more than 1/3 power when I start to get painful distortion from music sources. I cannot say if I turned it up higher some years ago when I lived in a much bigger house with a listening room 2-1/2 times bigger. Still, even at 1/3 power I can see how the 5.1 surround sound of a train wreck could overtax the system, after boosting the volume to hear quiet dialog. So I am looking to upgrade the receiver.

    I have doing a lot more concentrated music listening lately and have become more aware of the shortcomings of my Yamaha RX-V496. None its 2 channel DSP programs really improve the music and more often degrade it. I will be setting up a stereo pair and listening area at the other end of my living room using the B channel and my old custom built 3 ways. So I am looking for a better, more powerful AVR that can drive the SurroundBar for home theater and the stereo set up. I think a pair of LSi9s or something like them might be in the future so the AVR needs to be 4 ohm capable. A phono input is also a must. All that gets pricey so I am keeping an eye on Craigslist.

    Technokid, your post was cut off in mid sentence. If you had more to say I am eager to hear it.

    Regards,
    Jim

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    Quote Originally Posted by jimbo1421 View Post
    Listening to 2 channel audio is less satisfying. The Yamaha RX-V496 has three DSP programs for translating stereo input to some kind of surround sound: DISCO, ROCK CONCERT, and CONCERT HALL. These add to the width of the sound stage, which is much needed since the left and right channels are less than 3' apart. Too bad the DSP effects are often unlistenable. They add Yamaha sound engineering on top of whatever the recording engineers did; the result sometimes sounds right, but often it's just a muddle. Turning the DSP effect off leaves a much narrower sound stage, but a more listenable sound. So my solution has been to connect up my old custom built speaker pair on the AVR's B channel. The sound quality is not so good; the old speakers have an oboe-like timbre to them (saxophone, if you want to be cruel), where the SurroundBar is more neutral.

    Listening to stereo recordings at higher volumes (-28db) on the SurroundBar is also not so good. I overlooked the recommended amplification specification before I bought; it's 125 watts/channel. My AVR is rated at 70 watts. The result is distortion; with classical music high register violins get shrieky and classical piano music starts to sound clangy. So I have to turn it down. On the plus side, when the choice is popular music, with the DISCO DSP, the results can be terrific. I especially like Dire Straits and Joan Armatrading at full volume.


    Jim
    I would like to modify these remarks from my earlier review. I find that when listening to a well engineered stereo recording, LP or CD with the DSP effect turned off and the subwoofer turned on, the sound stage is about 6-7 feet wide when seated 7 feet away from the SurroundBar. This is a good bit wider than the 3 foot separation of the left and right tweeters. It is good enough to give spaciousness to the sound. Lesser quality sources, like FM stereo, don't seem to achieve this.

    Also, by full volume, I meant 1/3 power (-28db on the scale around the volume knob. More than that only the young can take.

    Jim

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    I auditioned it out of couriosity.

    For what it is it sounds amazing. Much better than the Bose junk. It will not replace a real 5.1 system anytime soon though.

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    Can someone explain why members report of the sound being much louder with increase in wire?

    Why are all the audiophiles spending money on Bluejeans, Monster...ext..if its not even detectable to the human ear?

    I will admit for a spool of In-wall 12 gauge, it was too cheap not to get as my other stuff is crap, but I can't figure out why people say it will became louder after the wire switch?

    I will be having a 25-30 run from my component closet to the SB50.


    Pics of the completed install will be posted next week.

    Thanks,

    Joe

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    I will admit for a spool of In-wall 12 gauge, it was too cheap not to get as my other stuff is crap, but I can't figure out why people say it will became louder after the wire switch?
    That might put me in trouble with some audiophiles but just keep in mind our hearing is also connected to our brain and the brain can play tricks :p If you cable is bad then a good reason for replacing however, stay away from marketting gimmicks such as MON$TER... Blue jeans isn't bad price wise and MONOPRICE is also another good option! For people using shorter runs, don't forget that the provided cable could be used doubled-up (2 pieces of 18 gage hooked-up togehter) providing you with higher gage and just as efficient!

    Cheers :)

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    Exclamation Why is this FAQ not working???

    SurroundBAR FAQ
    When clicking on a question, the answer doesn't appear... can anyone explain why and/or what I am doing wrong?

    Thanks in advance!

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    Quote Originally Posted by TECHNOKID View Post
    When clicking on a question, the answer doesn't appear... can anyone explain why and/or what I am doing wrong?

    Thanks in advance!
    Hi Technokid

    I can't even find a page called SurroundBar FAQ. There is one called General SurroundBar Questions. The pop down answers there work for me. Do you have JavaScript enabled? I turned mine off to see what would happen: no answers pop down.

    Here is a good place to say how confusing the SurroundBar pages have become. All the other series pages have a sensible layout and structure in common — Overview - Reviews - Tech Specs across the top, and the list of models down the left side. The SB page must have been done by a different committee. With no chairman. I took me 15 minutes once just to look up the specs.

    Regards,

    Jim

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    Thanks for your reply jimbo1421.

    There is one called General SurroundBar Questions. The pop down answers there work for me. Do you have JavaScript enabled?
    We are on the same page, I check JavaScript and it is enabled but pop down is blank for me, the answer(s) do not appear.

    By the way, I tried the same first at work today and the same was going on and I know JavaScript is enabled on that computer. Maybe Canadians aren't allowed those features ;)

    Cheers :)
    Last edited by TECHNOKID; 02-20-2009 at 03:14 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by TECHNOKID View Post
    Thanks for your reply jimbo1421.

    We are on the same page, I check JavaScript and it is enabled but pop down is blank for me, the answer(s) do not appear.

    By the way, I tried the same first at work today and the same was going on and I know JavaScript is enabled on that computer. Maybe Canadians aren't allowed those features ;)

    Cheers :)
    TK-
    I am on the Mac side here. I tried several browsers on this page. All worked except Internet Explorer 5.2 (the last version for OS X). In fact the site is seriously screwed up in IE 5.2. The Products button is missing altogether and IE crashes when I paste in the URL for General SurroundBar Questions.

    Did you try a different browser?

    Regards,
    Jim

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