My 2 channel heaven -- with no preamp!

[pjdami]

Well, recently I have been very very content with my systems and haven't been looking to upgrade anything but rather experiment around with what I already own. In the past six months I picked up a used Cal Audio CL-15 with a variable digital output volume and several used speakers. Last week I decided to take the Cary tube pre out of the loop and use the cd player directly to my Rogue 60 watt tube amp. After listening for a while I decided to stick the Musical Fidelity X10 v3 tube buffer stage between the Cal cd player and the Rogue. The X10 v3 is an output impedance matching circuit which essentially removes any "mismatches" in impendance between source and the final stage. The Cal allows me to control the volume remotely from my Lazyboy chair. Man, this is a sweet and very "uncolored" system to listen to. Very very detailed with no sibilance or harshness whatsoever. Not that the Cary made it harsh.. rather the opposite; it makes the sound warmer. Still very good and just different really rather than better. I have several speakers that I am using in this configuration right now:

SDA CRS+ with upgraded tweets (thanks Hoosier21)
Magneplanar MMGs with upgraded capacitors and inductor coils (same values)
Polk Monitor 10A
Spendor BC1 (20+ year old speakers and still one of my favorites)
Spendor SP1/2 (thanks Russman)

All of these speakers sound great with this setup. Really, almost a speaker for just about anyone here (90% or more for sure). I don't think I can get much better sound without spending a ton more money.

So if you ever get bored or want to try something "different" and can configure a setup similar to this you might just be surprised at the sound you get with no preamp.

1st picture is setup with MMGs. Top to bottom is the Rogue, the X10 v3, and the Cal Audio CL-15. B&K amp on bottom shelf not in use.

2nd picture shows the Spendors. BC1s on the left and their descendants the SP1/2s on the right. These speakers love tube amps and give me a lot of listening enjoyment.

[2+2]

PJ, I am planning on doing something very similar except on a lower cost level.....I have a Sony ES CD player with remote controled line level output. I plan on hooking that up directly via Kimber to another Rotel 1080 amp I should be getting soon....no "pre-amp"....to drive my Rockets.

I tried this with the 1080 I have at home and I dont know whether it was just the sheer extra watts but it did sound better than the Marantz driving them.

I need to find a platform/shelf to put the CD player on before my amp gets here.....

I was trying to get some opinions on the "quality" of Sony volume pots in another thread but noone seems to have any experience....

[polkatese]

Cool system, Paul! what happened to your LSis?

[reeltrouble1]

Glad you are digging it PJ, you might as well just send the Cary to me, I will take great care of her. ;) :)

RT1

[pjdami]

Cool system, Paul! what happened to your LSis?

I still have the Lsi's PT. They are in the Home Theater and do great for Movies / Music DVDs.

Glad you are digging it PJ, you might as well just send the Cary to me, I will take great care of her.

Actually, now I've freed up a rig. Just need to get another cd player. I have the B&K / Cary available and plenty of choice of speakers.

PJ, I am planning on doing something very similar except on a lower cost level.....I have a Sony ES CD player with remote controled line level output. I plan on hooking that up directly via Kimber to another Rotel 1080 amp I should be getting soon....no "pre-amp"....to drive my Rockets.

Yeah, let us know how it works out. I tried with my B&K amp but sounded kind of lean / thin to me. Your setup / preference may work out better. I'm pretty much a tube head now though. Gotta have tubes in all of my setups in one form or another.

[dale 442]

My local "High end dealer" years ago called it CD direct.
He also said to me "Have you not tried this yet?"

So I took that as a bit of a challenge to test it out. I will NEVER go back. I gave up the use of an old and crappy Dolby surround processor and my tape deck, and my AM/FM tuner in the deal.
But, the audible difference to me was worth the loss. To me, it's the only way to go!
The less crap between the source and the speakers the better. It DOES change the sound. Any pre amp will. So, why use it?
IF 2 channel audio is all you care about.
Try it, then call me on it.

I recently got back into the HT world. I bought a crappy bottom of the JVC receiver and the Polk 6005's along with the PSW10 sub. I think, for HT this is awesome! But, I DO know, its been awhile.
My goal was to leave my 2 channel system ALONE. When I want to actually listen to audio it's there.

HT, to me, has been a bit of afterthought. But a nice one I might add!! :) \
I am extemely surprised at how good, to me, this cheap **** does sound for HT only.

But I digress,
Try your rig without your preamp IF your CD has a variable out.
Hearing really IS believing.

Dale

[Zero]

Glad to see you are still around Paul. Long time, hope all is well.

I've done this with a few set-ups. It's pretty cool and offers a lot of things that is very difficult to attain with a pre in the loop.. at least when we are talking high res. electronics.

Cool stuff... very cool stuff.

[beardog03]

WoW...

those spendor`s are larger than I thought they were..!!

I tried this once and loved the full faucet effect that I got..pure uncolored sound..I just had no volume control, but after a while I got used to it...I just couldn`t keep it that loud for too long..the wife was not amused..!!

[dale 442]

Thought I would add some pics to the above post.
Look at these tiny little POS's catching a ride on top of my 2b's. Kinda sad in a way, but at least my 2 channel rig is intact.

Dale

[dale 442]

Beardog;
You tried not using a pre amp without variable out? More balls than I ever had.
I ASSume you are kidding?

Dale

[beardog03]

I once tried it another way also..
I put a disc in the player and plugged the head phones in...directly from the disc to the phones...since the cdp can only output so much I figured it could only output so much to the amp and speaks, and as long as the amp was rated less than the speaks could handle I was safe..

and it worked...for the short time I did it it was fine, but waaay loud

Just a speriment...you learn by sperimentin some timz..
sometimez good...somtimz it get`s ugly..!!

and sometimez it`s better to ask someone who knows before you blow stuff up..!!

[dale 442]

LMAO!! :D

Flying by the seat of your pants!! Love it!!

Dale

[dorokusai]

Nice setups PJ.

[2+2]

I still wonder about the quality of the variable line level outputs that are integrated into CD players tho...although at the end of the day, sound quality is what matters...

[Dennis Gardner]

I still wonder about the quality of the variable line level outputs that are integrated into CD players tho...although at the end of the day, sound quality is what matters...

Simple attenuators only decrease the signal. Any degrading of the sound would be due to the resistors in the controller.

[2+2]

Simple attenuators only decrease the signal. Any degrading of the sound would be due to the resistors in the controller.

So do the little volume controllers in the CD players have resistors that can degrade sound or are the implementations different with each manufacture? I would think most just go the cheapest route....

[Dennis Gardner]

They most likely don't use top level resistors, but they have less inline to affect the sound than a preamp will. Amplifying signals adds noise, and while preamps do deliver the line level at the 12 o'clock point, because they have amplified the signal to get past that level, the line level is changed.

The simple volume controls in a CD player cut the line level, not amplify it.

[2+2]

They most likely don't use top level resistors, but they have less inline to affect the sound than a preamp will. Amplifying signals adds noise, and while preamps do deliver the line level at the 12 o'clock point, because they have amplified the signal to get past that level, the line level is changed.

The simple volume controls in a CD player cut the line level, not amplify it.

Cool....can't wait to do some serious listening with a direct feed. Thx for your insights.