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Thread: Woofer Rattling

  1. #1

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    Default Woofer Rattling

    I was watching Serenity last night (great bass, BTW) and noticed that my sub rattles during deep bass passages.

    Actually, I've noticed this issue since I built the DIY Atlas 15 sub, but didn't realize it was the driver itself that rattles, not the stuff in my cabinets or on the shelves or the wheels on the sub. I played the same scene over and over again until I was certain that it was the driver. I even put my ear right next to the driver. It only seems to occur on deep, sustained bass notes.

    The rattling is quite noticeable and somewhat distracting, so it needs to be fixed. Anyone have any idea what could be causing this?
    HT/2-channel Rig: Sony 50” LCD TV; Toshiba HD-A2 DVD player; Emotiva LMC-1 pre/pro; Rogue Audio M-120 monoblocks (modded); Placette RVC; Emotiva LPA-1 amp; Bada HD-22 tube CDP (modded); VMPS Tower II SE (fronts); DIY Clearwave Dynamic 4CC (center); Wharfedale Opus Tri-Surrounds (rear); and VMPS 215 sub

    "God grooves with tubes."

  2. #2

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    have you opened it up? maybe something touching the cone?
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  3. #3

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    Yep. I performed surgery on her last night, but didn't see anything that could be causing the rattling.
    HT/2-channel Rig: Sony 50” LCD TV; Toshiba HD-A2 DVD player; Emotiva LMC-1 pre/pro; Rogue Audio M-120 monoblocks (modded); Placette RVC; Emotiva LPA-1 amp; Bada HD-22 tube CDP (modded); VMPS Tower II SE (fronts); DIY Clearwave Dynamic 4CC (center); Wharfedale Opus Tri-Surrounds (rear); and VMPS 215 sub

    "God grooves with tubes."

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    does it sound almost metal on metal like?, it could be the voice coil.
    if it is more like something is vibrating, did you put a gasget or speaker caulk between the driver and the cabinet? I have subs where I did not do it and never had a problem, but some have. if the driver is just mounted to the wood, it can rattle and vibrate.

    I say disco the driver and run some signal to it unmounted (easy on the power to start) if the driver itself makes the rattle while unmounted, then its the voice coil.
    Theater - Polk LSi15, LSiC, LSi9 speaks, DIY Sub (142.5L box, SVS plus driver, 500 Watt plate amp)...Outlaw 990 pre/pro, Carver TFM45, 2 X Outlaw M200 . Rotel RB980 . PS3, Monster 3600 power center

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    I second ohskigod.

    Take it out of the enclosure and let it play free-air with a very low tone. Get it near xmax and if you hear a noise, you have a problem.

    Another problem could be your enclosure. What's the internal volume of it, how much polyfill did you use (if it's sealed), and which Qts setting did you use on the Atlas? Some subs have a compliance issue where the volume of the box needs to be large enough to not interfere with the sub (if that makes sense). My Shivas had this problem and the Dayton RS10 Hi Output had this same problem at the Dayton DiY convention this year.

  6. #6

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    Quote Originally Posted by ohskigod
    does it sound almost metal on metal like?, it could be the voice coil.
    if it is more like something is vibrating, did you put a gasget or speaker caulk between the driver and the cabinet? I have subs where I did not do it and never had a problem, but some have. if the driver is just mounted to the wood, it can rattle and vibrate.

    I say disco the driver and run some signal to it unmounted (easy on the power to start) if the driver itself makes the rattle while unmounted, then its the voice coil.
    Great suggestion. I unmounted the driver and ran the same signal through it that I used last night and earlier today. The innards of the driver still rattles, even while sitting on a cushiony sofa. The rattling sound is magnified when mounted due to the cabinet pressure and ports.

    Should the driver be dead quiet even through high excursions?

    What should I do next? I'd like to exhaust all of my options before contacting Chad at Ascendant Audio.
    HT/2-channel Rig: Sony 50” LCD TV; Toshiba HD-A2 DVD player; Emotiva LMC-1 pre/pro; Rogue Audio M-120 monoblocks (modded); Placette RVC; Emotiva LPA-1 amp; Bada HD-22 tube CDP (modded); VMPS Tower II SE (fronts); DIY Clearwave Dynamic 4CC (center); Wharfedale Opus Tri-Surrounds (rear); and VMPS 215 sub

    "God grooves with tubes."

  7. #7

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mazeroth
    Another problem could be your enclosure. What's the internal volume of it, how much polyfill did you use (if it's sealed), and which Qts setting did you use on the Atlas?
    The external volume of the sub is 6 c.f. in a ported enclosure (not sure about internal volume.)

    I use 1.5" PE egg crate foam throughout.

    I use the low QTS setting.
    HT/2-channel Rig: Sony 50” LCD TV; Toshiba HD-A2 DVD player; Emotiva LMC-1 pre/pro; Rogue Audio M-120 monoblocks (modded); Placette RVC; Emotiva LPA-1 amp; Bada HD-22 tube CDP (modded); VMPS Tower II SE (fronts); DIY Clearwave Dynamic 4CC (center); Wharfedale Opus Tri-Surrounds (rear); and VMPS 215 sub

    "God grooves with tubes."

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    driver is shot brotha. If I had to wager a guess, you didnt completly fry the voice coil, but you threw something off somehow (could be just a bum unit too, I dont know) That thing should be dead quiet moving. I did the same thing to a 12" dayton DVC in a small vented cabinet.

    I replaced it with the 12 Dayton High Fidelity driver, and given what Mazeroth said about the dayton drivers, I will be building a bigger cab for it sooner rather than later.



    give Chad a call
    Theater - Polk LSi15, LSiC, LSi9 speaks, DIY Sub (142.5L box, SVS plus driver, 500 Watt plate amp)...Outlaw 990 pre/pro, Carver TFM45, 2 X Outlaw M200 . Rotel RB980 . PS3, Monster 3600 power center

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    thats a large enclosure dude, which is a good thing, but you might have overpowerred it perhaps? what amp are you using.

    larger enclosure actually requires less power to push the driver to xmax.
    Theater - Polk LSi15, LSiC, LSi9 speaks, DIY Sub (142.5L box, SVS plus driver, 500 Watt plate amp)...Outlaw 990 pre/pro, Carver TFM45, 2 X Outlaw M200 . Rotel RB980 . PS3, Monster 3600 power center

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    Thanks for your help. Yeah, I believe I got a bum unit because it's been doing this from day one, but I figured it was something else in the room rattling.

    Think I ought to lobby Chad for one of his new 15" Arsenals?
    HT/2-channel Rig: Sony 50” LCD TV; Toshiba HD-A2 DVD player; Emotiva LMC-1 pre/pro; Rogue Audio M-120 monoblocks (modded); Placette RVC; Emotiva LPA-1 amp; Bada HD-22 tube CDP (modded); VMPS Tower II SE (fronts); DIY Clearwave Dynamic 4CC (center); Wharfedale Opus Tri-Surrounds (rear); and VMPS 215 sub

    "God grooves with tubes."

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    Quote Originally Posted by Early B.
    Thanks for your help. Yeah, I believe I got a bum unit because it's been doing this from day one, but I figured it was something else in the room rattling.

    Think I ought to lobby Chad for one of his new 15" Arsenals?


    worse he can say is no :)

    doing it since day one, something got knocked around in shipping HARD if I had to wager a guess. either way, you should get another one.

    good luck
    Theater - Polk LSi15, LSiC, LSi9 speaks, DIY Sub (142.5L box, SVS plus driver, 500 Watt plate amp)...Outlaw 990 pre/pro, Carver TFM45, 2 X Outlaw M200 . Rotel RB980 . PS3, Monster 3600 power center

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  12. #12

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    Quote Originally Posted by ohskigod
    I replaced it with the 12 Dayton High Fidelity driver, and given what Mazeroth said about the dayton drivers, I will be building a bigger cab for it sooner rather than later.
    Gee, I've been wondering about the Dayton HF driver. In fact, I almost bought the 10" HF a couple of weeks ago. Do you know how it compares to the Titanic? How does it sound with music?
    HT/2-channel Rig: Sony 50” LCD TV; Toshiba HD-A2 DVD player; Emotiva LMC-1 pre/pro; Rogue Audio M-120 monoblocks (modded); Placette RVC; Emotiva LPA-1 amp; Bada HD-22 tube CDP (modded); VMPS Tower II SE (fronts); DIY Clearwave Dynamic 4CC (center); Wharfedale Opus Tri-Surrounds (rear); and VMPS 215 sub

    "God grooves with tubes."

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    its not broken in yet, and again, its not in the best enclosure

    I am VERY impressed with the build quality. its much heavier than the 12"dvc (a great driver in its own right, a virtual Shiva clone)

    anyway, its built great, and it looks great too. rubber surround (sweet)

    I have it in a Polk 505 box (another box is on my to do list) jammed with polyfill with a 250Watt Plate amp. I expected a train wreck but it actually performs very well with music (using it in my 2 channel, getting bass in my bassment is a challenge)

    I keep it very low, and crossed about 40-50 hz, just a little oomph thats needed. I kicked it up a notch just to flex the drivers muscle and I was impressed. In the cab, not much below say 25-30 hx, but not a surprise in the cabinet I have it in, but the rest? wow, it shook the BIG bassment with authority. I was very surprised.

    I bought it expecting amore refined sound for music, and thats what I got, but it will rumble and shake sh#t too if called upon. I figure it will only get better with break in. I'm very happy with the driver, and will be getting ideas as too what enclosure I should build for it to get the most out of it for music performance.


    well worth the 110.00 I got it for on sale.
    Theater - Polk LSi15, LSiC, LSi9 speaks, DIY Sub (142.5L box, SVS plus driver, 500 Watt plate amp)...Outlaw 990 pre/pro, Carver TFM45, 2 X Outlaw M200 . Rotel RB980 . PS3, Monster 3600 power center

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    The Dayton RS HiFi subs are pretty much the lowest distortion sub you can purchase, and they're inexpensive. They are coming out with a 15", but when I don't know. A few guys in the DiY community have done measurements on them but I was only able to find one:

    http://www.mfk-projects.com/rs_12_hi-fi.htm

    I currently own four of the Dayton HiFi 12s that will be used in my new dipole project. For laughs: I own five Ascendant Atlas 15s, four of which will be used in the IB sub I build when we get a house, and the last in a sealed sub. I also own six Adire Shiva 12" subs.

    Yes, I have bass :D

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    The Atlas subs have a good warranty on them don't they(somewhere between 3-5 years). Even though they are selling them anymore, the site specifically said they were going to keep replacement parts on hand for instances just like this. Give Chad a call to see what he can work out with you.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mazeroth

    I currently own four of the Dayton HiFi 12s that will be used in my new dipole project. For laughs: I own five Ascendant Atlas 15s, four of which will be used in the IB sub I build when we get a house, and the last in a sealed sub. I also own six Adire Shiva 12" subs.

    Yes, I have bass :D


    that infinite baffle set up, if done right, should kick ass. I hear nothing but great things about infinite baffle. I know you need at least 2, and more is better, for it to be done right. I'd say 4 should be more than adequate :D

    I'd love to hear a good IB set up, just to know how good they are.

    6 shiva's? christ almighty, what are you gonna do with those?
    thanx for the link by the way
    Theater - Polk LSi15, LSiC, LSi9 speaks, DIY Sub (142.5L box, SVS plus driver, 500 Watt plate amp)...Outlaw 990 pre/pro, Carver TFM45, 2 X Outlaw M200 . Rotel RB980 . PS3, Monster 3600 power center

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    hey Maz, keep me posted on that Dipole project.
    Theater - Polk LSi15, LSiC, LSi9 speaks, DIY Sub (142.5L box, SVS plus driver, 500 Watt plate amp)...Outlaw 990 pre/pro, Carver TFM45, 2 X Outlaw M200 . Rotel RB980 . PS3, Monster 3600 power center

    2 Channel -
    Anthem Pre 2l, Jolida JD100 CD player, CAL Sigma DAC, Carver m4.0, Polk LSi9 w external modified Crossovers (thanks Trey!)

  18. #18

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    Spoke with Chad today and shipped the Atlas 15 back to him for a diagnosis. Stay tuned...
    HT/2-channel Rig: Sony 50” LCD TV; Toshiba HD-A2 DVD player; Emotiva LMC-1 pre/pro; Rogue Audio M-120 monoblocks (modded); Placette RVC; Emotiva LPA-1 amp; Bada HD-22 tube CDP (modded); VMPS Tower II SE (fronts); DIY Clearwave Dynamic 4CC (center); Wharfedale Opus Tri-Surrounds (rear); and VMPS 215 sub

    "God grooves with tubes."

  19. #19

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    cool
    Theater - Polk LSi15, LSiC, LSi9 speaks, DIY Sub (142.5L box, SVS plus driver, 500 Watt plate amp)...Outlaw 990 pre/pro, Carver TFM45, 2 X Outlaw M200 . Rotel RB980 . PS3, Monster 3600 power center

    2 Channel -
    Anthem Pre 2l, Jolida JD100 CD player, CAL Sigma DAC, Carver m4.0, Polk LSi9 w external modified Crossovers (thanks Trey!)

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    Quote Originally Posted by ohskigod
    that infinite baffle set up, if done right, should kick ass. I hear nothing but great things about infinite baffle. I know you need at least 2, and more is better, for it to be done right. I'd say 4 should be more than adequate :D

    I'd love to hear a good IB set up, just to know how good they are.

    6 shiva's? christ almighty, what are you gonna do with those?
    thanx for the link by the way

    What do you think your Amazings are?
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    The Amazings are a dipole setup, not an infinite baffle. Two totally different beasts, but both kick major ass! Dipoles have the advantage of not having to worry about room modes, with the problem of needing massive amounts of excursion to get any output out of them. A good rule of thumb for dipoles is you'll need 4x the excursion to equal that of one sealed sub. They also can't play very low (25hz is usually their end point). The IB sub is just a giant sealed sub, so you get extreme low-end output and very little distortion.

    The six Shivas are in use. Four of them are in the IB sub in my basement home theater, which is only 1500 ft3 so they do VERY well in there. I measured roughly 109db at 10hz at my seating position, 4 meters away. Yeah, that's extension :D The other two Shivas are in a sealed box that I have a use for in a little bit.

    I'm working on the dipoles with a man named Monte Kay, who's friends with Sigfried Linkwitz, the father of the Linkwitz Orion speaker. ( http://www.linkwitzlab.com ) We're working on a 4-way active dipole now which will utilize, per speaker, two Dayton RS315 (12") HiFi drivers from 20hz - 80hz, two Dayton RS225 (8") drivers from 80hz - 500hzish, two Dayton RS125 (5") mids that will cover 500hzish - 2000hz, and a single Dayton RS28A tweeter, all in a WW WMTMW configuration.

    Oh yes...they will be a thing of beauty. I'm going to have Troy over in a few months to audition them and I'll have him write an honest review of them. I'll keep you guys posted throughout the design, building, and measurement process.

    Stay tuned!

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