Free Shipping on All Orders 1-866-764-1801

Vist our Online Store
+ Reply to Thread
Results 1 to 30 of 30
  1. #1

    Member Sales Rating: (1)

    Join Date
    Jun 2004
    Location
    Chitown, IL
    Posts
    2,005

    Default Krell 400xi vs Rotel RC1070 + Rotel RB1090?

    What do you guys think?

    The Rotel RB1090 amp + RC1070 preamp combo vs the Krell Integrated 400xi?

    The Rotel RB1090 is a monster of an amp and is a dual mono design with 2 torroidals and 2 power transformers... the L and R never meet essentially. I'm not altogether very familiar with the Krell though I've heard it power the Martin Logan Vantages before and it was a solid audition.

    Here are some pics:

    Krell:




    Rotel RB1090:




    I havent heard the 1090 yet but I have the 1070 and I enjoy its sonic presentation. I know the 1090 would be an upgrade with the same house sound of Rotel and I have a hard time justifying $2500 for the Krell especially when the Rotel looks a lot beefier and more "manly" judging by internals alone.

    The Rotel is 380wpc @ 8ohms and 700wpc @ 4ohms (where my Vantage run at).... the Krell 400xi is 200wpc @ 8 and 400 wpc @ 4. Both are class AB.

    What do you guys think?
    Joey's College Gear:
    Current Gear:
    SB3 -> PS Audio DAC III -> Cary Audio SLP-98Phono Tube PreAmp w/ Sylvania NOS 6sn7 tubes -> Plinius SA102 Class A amp -> Martin Logan SUMMIT/Strata Mini -> :D
    Old Gear:
    Martin Logan Vantage (4.75/5)-ML Mosaic (4.25/5)-Onix Ref1 (3.7/5)-Sonus Faber Concerto (3.5/5)-SF Concertino (3/5)-Axiom M22ti (2.75/5)-Polk LSi9 (3.75/5)-LSi7 (3.25/5)-HK AVR330-Rotel RC1070/RB1070/RB1090-SVS 25-31PC+ sub
    RUSH Med School 2008!!:D

  2. #2
    Stronzo
    Member Sales Rating: (7)

    Join Date
    Apr 2002
    Location
    Over Yonder
    Posts
    7,883

    Default

    Ditch the Rotel pre and go with something worthwhile... The 1090 is the only amp Rotel has out worth taking a look at.

    Having done an A/B comparison... sound quality wise, I thought the Krell walked all over the 1072/1092 combo.

    edit: Now that I think about it - no brainer. Krell, all day. You will save money, get better sound, you should have enough power.... and you can put that saved money towards one of the most important parts of the system; your source.
    Last edited by Zero; 02-06-2006 at 04:02 PM.

  3. #3

    Member Sales Rating: (1)

    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Posts
    441

    Default

    A friend of mine just bought the Krell Integrated 400xi and he was debating over Rotel seperates as well. Just based on what he said - there was no comparision - Krell won hands down. He is using them to drive his B&W 800's.

  4. #4

    Member Sales Rating: (2)

    Join Date
    Jan 2002
    Location
    Northborough, MA
    Posts
    306

    Default

    wow, that is a pretty impressive engineering feat if the krell does sound better than the rotel. dont think even one of those transformers would fit into the krell box there.

  5. #5

    Member Sales Rating: (6)

    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Location
    NC/AR
    Posts
    11,295

    Default

    ^^ Exactly what I was thinking. Very surprising to me that the Krell does a better job than the Rotel combination. Perhaps if you put them on some really demanding speakers so the Krell would run out of steam first...then maybe the Rotel would be better. How do they compare current wise?
    Quote Originally Posted by George Grand View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Jstas View Post
    Simple question. If you had a cool million bucks, what would you do with it?
    Wonder WTF happened to the rest of my money.
    My Saga
    Equipment Pictures

    [2CH]
    Rotel RCD-02
    Yamaha KX-W900U
    Sony ST-S500ES
    Denon DP-7F
    Parasound P/HP-850
    Parasound HCA-1000A
    Klipsch RF-35


    [In Storage]
    Yamaha CDR-HD1300
    ASL Wave 20 monoblocks
    Pro-Ject Phono Box MKII


    [Car System]
    Pioneer Premier DEH-P860MP
    Memphis 16-MCA3004
    Boston Acoustic RC520

  6. #6

    Member Sales Rating: (1)

    Join Date
    Jun 2004
    Location
    Chitown, IL
    Posts
    2,005

    Default

    I really have a hard time believing that the Krell entry level bests the ultimate Rotel. The capacitors on the Rotel are massive and the dual mono design is superb. The Rotel has been highly reviewed, too.

    Let me correct myself, I have heard the 1090 on one occassion - powering some 802N - however, I wasnt very sold on them since they were powering BW-N which I dont really like and the guy put on mp3s.

    Anyway, the Krell seems to me like I would be paying alot for the name itself... rather than the parts inside.

    Not to discount those who think the Krell sounds better.
    Joey's College Gear:
    Current Gear:
    SB3 -> PS Audio DAC III -> Cary Audio SLP-98Phono Tube PreAmp w/ Sylvania NOS 6sn7 tubes -> Plinius SA102 Class A amp -> Martin Logan SUMMIT/Strata Mini -> :D
    Old Gear:
    Martin Logan Vantage (4.75/5)-ML Mosaic (4.25/5)-Onix Ref1 (3.7/5)-Sonus Faber Concerto (3.5/5)-SF Concertino (3/5)-Axiom M22ti (2.75/5)-Polk LSi9 (3.75/5)-LSi7 (3.25/5)-HK AVR330-Rotel RC1070/RB1070/RB1090-SVS 25-31PC+ sub
    RUSH Med School 2008!!:D

  7. #7

    Member Sales Rating: (1)

    Join Date
    Aug 2004
    Location
    N. VA.
    Posts
    540

    Default

    Joey, I think the weakness of your Rotel combo is probably the preamp side. 1090 amp is the best Rotel has and has been received very well...RC1070 has been more mixed. If you can up the pre-amp to say...RC1090, then you probably have a great combo... Also, keep in mind the future if you ever consider upgrading to really hard speakers to drive, the Krell may not be enough (never heard it tho so take it for what it's worth).....
    System 1: Onix Rockets 750 Sig. Ed., Rotel RC 1070, Rotel RB 1080, Music Hall MMF CD25 w/627opamps

    System 2: LSi15, Marantz SR8400, Rotel 1080, RM6800 (C&S), Yamaha: 2300 Univ. DVD, CDC-625RS.

    System 3: LSi7, Yamaha SW215, HK 230, Elite DV-45A; Sony C445.

    System 4: RTi100, Onkyo TXSV717Pro, Monarchy/Sonic Impact Hybrid, Yamaha CD.

  8. #8
    Stronzo
    Member Sales Rating: (7)

    Join Date
    Apr 2002
    Location
    Over Yonder
    Posts
    7,883

    Default

    Joey

    If it is one thing I have walked away with in this hobby, it is in learning that there are no absolutes. A lot of my experience slaps the face of “bigger equals better” theory.

    I find your response pretty interesting. A lot of our buying decisions are placebo. Looking at your response, it seems as if you have already made up your mind about where the two pieces stand and what you prefer – which has me wondering why you started the thread in the first place if that is the case?

    Sure, I too would love to own a big beast of an amp that requires a separate stand, that looks cool and has all the big stuff that I’ve been taught makes a piece, a good piece. There is a degree of comfort in that, not to mention that this design has been the flag-ship of the Rotel amp line for nearly a decade.

    However, it is not always about the size and the parts. Its all about the circuit and how everything around that circuit is implemented. If you judge products according to their size, looks, and name, well – you are missing out on a lot of great equipment. Of course, this is a tough sell to anyone who has not yet been “schooled”.

    Either way, whether you end up with the big Rotel, a little Krell (whose sound is far from entry level), or any other piece on those levels.. I am sure it will make you very happy. We all have our tastes, wants, and criteria.

    I have come to appreciate that until you get into the mega-buck range, integrated amps are really the way to go. That’s my preference. I’d rather pay for a high quality integrated than purchase lesser separate components.

    Good luck.
    Last edited by Zero; 02-06-2006 at 06:03 PM.

  9. #9

    Member Sales Rating: (0)

    Join Date
    Jun 2003
    Posts
    887

    Default

    I can't compare Krell's intergrated vs separates but I can say this. After 3months of research and knowing that Krell took alot of heat for the Krell 500i intergrated (over $4000) I know the 400xi was a lost leader from them. I'm quite happy with mine. I decided long ago I didn't want to deal with additional interconnects and power cords. I'm considering an Elrod or Purist, if I had to deal with a pre/amp that is easily another grand gone in additional wires etc...perhaps I'm crazy in assuming a number like that for mere interconnects and PC's but that's an entirely new discussion that has been beaten to death.

  10. #10

    Member Sales Rating: (1)

    Join Date
    Jun 2004
    Location
    Chitown, IL
    Posts
    2,005

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by LuSh
    I can't compare Krell's intergrated vs separates but I can say this. After 3months of research and knowing that Krell took alot of heat for the Krell 500i intergrated (over $4000) I know the 400xi was a lost leader from them.
    Lush,

    What do you mean Lost Leader?

    Zero (Shawn.... er, Sean... hehehe),

    I'm gonna call you tomorrow night.... past 9p cuz that's when I get free minutes. Looking forward catching up with you and your ideas about this amp subject.
    Joey's College Gear:
    Current Gear:
    SB3 -> PS Audio DAC III -> Cary Audio SLP-98Phono Tube PreAmp w/ Sylvania NOS 6sn7 tubes -> Plinius SA102 Class A amp -> Martin Logan SUMMIT/Strata Mini -> :D
    Old Gear:
    Martin Logan Vantage (4.75/5)-ML Mosaic (4.25/5)-Onix Ref1 (3.7/5)-Sonus Faber Concerto (3.5/5)-SF Concertino (3/5)-Axiom M22ti (2.75/5)-Polk LSi9 (3.75/5)-LSi7 (3.25/5)-HK AVR330-Rotel RC1070/RB1070/RB1090-SVS 25-31PC+ sub
    RUSH Med School 2008!!:D

  11. #11
    Stronzo
    Member Sales Rating: (7)

    Join Date
    Apr 2002
    Location
    Over Yonder
    Posts
    7,883

    Default

    Joey,

    Looking forward to it. Not to speak for Lush - but what he just made a simple typing error. He meant to say loss-leader.

    A loss-leader product is one a company puts out that yeilds very little profit, at least in respect to their standard bottom line.

  12. #12

    Member Sales Rating: (1)

    Join Date
    Jun 2004
    Location
    Chitown, IL
    Posts
    2,005

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Zero
    Joey,

    Looking forward to it. Not to speak for Lush - but what he just made a simple typing error. He meant to say loss-leader.

    A loss-leader product is one a company puts out that yeilds very little profit, at least in respect to their standard bottom line.
    Ah... lost leader and loss leader are two very different things.... cool cool.
    Joey's College Gear:
    Current Gear:
    SB3 -> PS Audio DAC III -> Cary Audio SLP-98Phono Tube PreAmp w/ Sylvania NOS 6sn7 tubes -> Plinius SA102 Class A amp -> Martin Logan SUMMIT/Strata Mini -> :D
    Old Gear:
    Martin Logan Vantage (4.75/5)-ML Mosaic (4.25/5)-Onix Ref1 (3.7/5)-Sonus Faber Concerto (3.5/5)-SF Concertino (3/5)-Axiom M22ti (2.75/5)-Polk LSi9 (3.75/5)-LSi7 (3.25/5)-HK AVR330-Rotel RC1070/RB1070/RB1090-SVS 25-31PC+ sub
    RUSH Med School 2008!!:D

  13. #13

    Member Sales Rating: (13)

    Join Date
    Mar 2002
    Location
    The Mars Hotel
    Posts
    30,418

    Default

    Wasn't the the infamous Krell integrated the KAV 300i?

    I agree with Sean, you can't judge the sound by the size, specs or look of the pieces. I can also say from personal experience that there are high end integrated amps that can perform at and far above separates in the same price range and then some.

    As always, it would be best if you could demo both set ups that you are considering before choosing.
    'Political Correctness'.........defined

    "A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end."

  14. #14

    Member Sales Rating: (4)

    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Posts
    3,539

    Default

    Just to throw in my two cents, having heard a rotel combo (1090 and don't know which pre-), the krell 400xi and the Musical Fidelity A5, the rotel finished dead last in my mind. My preference was the A5, then the 400xi, and I didn't like the 1090 combo at all. This was on Wilson Watt/puppies and B&W 802's.
    Gallo Ref 3.1 : Bryston 4b SST : Musical fidelity CD Pre : VPI HW-19
    Gallo Ref AV, Frankengallo Ref 3, LC60i : Bryston 9b SST : Meridian 565
    Jordan JX92s : MF X-T100 : Xray v8
    Backburner:Krell KAV-300i

  15. #15

    Member Sales Rating: (0)

    Join Date
    Jun 2003
    Posts
    887

    Default

    Yes it was a typing error. Loss-leader.

    F1nut: Both the 300i and 500i (rare and expensive) were both huge flops for Krell. Having said that some say the 500i was one of the most overlooked amps during its run.

  16. #16

    Member Sales Rating: (1)

    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    Seattle
    Posts
    400

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Zero

    I have come to appreciate that until you get into the mega-buck range, integrated amps are really the way to go. That’s my preference. I’d rather pay for a high quality integrated than purchase lesser separate components.

    Not to hijack the thread, but Zero, why do you think that? This is a line of thought that I hadn't come across yet and I am intrigued. I don't have a lot of experience in the higher end, and this may influence the way I was thinking of going.

    Thanks in advance for any insight.
    There are two ways to argue with women. Both of them are wrong.

  17. #17
    Stronzo
    Member Sales Rating: (7)

    Join Date
    Apr 2002
    Location
    Over Yonder
    Posts
    7,883

    Default

    Kingtip,

    To keep this thread preserved, lets take this to E-mail. Send me your addy in a PM and we can talk.

  18. #18

    Member Sales Rating: (13)

    Join Date
    Mar 2002
    Location
    The Mars Hotel
    Posts
    30,418

    Default

    Lush, got it and thanks.
    'Political Correctness'.........defined

    "A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end."

  19. #19

    Member Sales Rating: (14)

    Join Date
    Jul 2001
    Location
    Pa
    Posts
    13,434

    Default

    Go listen and bring home the one that sounds better. Forget about cap size, forget about how cool it looks. it matter what speakers your driving it with and how they pair up.
    Krell and Rotel are not in the same class. But that doesn't mean You have to like one or the other due to any reasons except sound quality and the ability to drive your speakers.

    Get off the forum and go listen

    Dan
    Dan
    My personal quest is to save to world of bad audio, one thread at a time.

  20. #20

    Member Sales Rating: (3)

    Join Date
    Apr 2004
    Location
    Santa Rosa, CA
    Posts
    870

    Default

    Well, just to throw in one more zinger, I know that Gayle Saunders, owner of Martin Logan, uses Krell to power his E Statement 2 system in Kansas. If Krell is the choice of the makers of Martin Logan, I'm sure you'll be happy with the results on your own set of ML's. I'd go with with the Krell any day. It's really a steal in terms of price vs. performance.
    Current System:

    Mitsubishi 30" LCD LT-3020 (for sale**)
    Vienna Acoustics Beethoven Concert Grand (Rosewood)-Mains (with Audioquest Mont Blanc cables)
    CSi5-Center (for sale**)
    FXi3-surrounds (for sale**)
    Martin Logan Depth-Sub
    B&K AVR 507
    Pimare CD21-CD Player
    Denon 1815-DVD Player
    Panamax M5500-EX-Line Conditioner

  21. #21

    Member Sales Rating: (1)

    Join Date
    Jan 2003
    Location
    Louisiana
    Posts
    1,898

    Default

    I think F1 and Mantis nailed it; you got to go demo both and in your own home if you can swing it on your speakers / room.

    Start saving for that Wadia cd player too.. Sweeeeet.

  22. #22

    Member Sales Rating: (1)

    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Posts
    441

    Default

    A slightly off-topic question, but why are these soooo expensive??? They cannot be better than the Krell, can they?

    http://www.crutchfield.com/S-QoPhbDP...20&I=580TXNR1K

    http://www.crutchfield.com/S-QoPhbDP...0&I=033AV5805B

  23. #23

    Member Sales Rating: (4)

    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Posts
    3,539

    Default

    'cause people look at the back panel and say, "HOLY ****!"

    Still you'd be better off with $2k pre like anthem or b&k plus a $2k 7 channel amp, plus a couple Adcoms for the multiroom functions. That's just too much crap in one box for my taste.
    Gallo Ref 3.1 : Bryston 4b SST : Musical fidelity CD Pre : VPI HW-19
    Gallo Ref AV, Frankengallo Ref 3, LC60i : Bryston 9b SST : Meridian 565
    Jordan JX92s : MF X-T100 : Xray v8
    Backburner:Krell KAV-300i

  24. #24

    Member Sales Rating: (0)

    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Posts
    310

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by crazy
    A slightly off-topic question, but why are these soooo expensive??? They cannot be better than the Krell, can they?

    http://www.crutchfield.com/S-QoPhbDP...20&I=580TXNR1K

    http://www.crutchfield.com/S-QoPhbDP...0&I=033AV5805B

    It's really for people who want to try the high-end but are put off by the extra work in setting up separates. :p

  25. #25

    Member Sales Rating: (13)

    Join Date
    Mar 2002
    Location
    The Mars Hotel
    Posts
    30,418

    Default

    Crazy, that's very off topic. 2 channel and HT are very different animals.
    'Political Correctness'.........defined

    "A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end."

  26. #26

    Member Sales Rating: (3)

    Join Date
    May 2004
    Location
    Texas
    Posts
    717

    Default

    The Rotel RC-1070 pre for $500 MSRP is hard to beat for the money. Sure, it may not be the best in class but I venture to say it is the best bang/$$ out there for a separate pre. The RC-1090 (now discontinued in US) is jsut a tad better sounding but more bells & whisltes. The RC-1070 is cleaner looking i my opinion. The RB-1090 has been touted as being the best sub-$2500 amp on the market. It all depends on your speaker choice. Best you can do is audition at your home if dealer will let you.

  27. #27

    Member Sales Rating: (1)

    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Posts
    441

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by F1nut
    Crazy, that's very off topic. 2 channel and HT are very different animals.
    ah! Didn't realize. I guess that explains - my friends does have a stereo setup. So I assume he would need a surround processor to go 5.1, right?

  28. #28

    Member Sales Rating: (6)

    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Location
    NC/AR
    Posts
    11,295

    Default

    Yup.
    Quote Originally Posted by George Grand View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Jstas View Post
    Simple question. If you had a cool million bucks, what would you do with it?
    Wonder WTF happened to the rest of my money.
    My Saga
    Equipment Pictures

    [2CH]
    Rotel RCD-02
    Yamaha KX-W900U
    Sony ST-S500ES
    Denon DP-7F
    Parasound P/HP-850
    Parasound HCA-1000A
    Klipsch RF-35


    [In Storage]
    Yamaha CDR-HD1300
    ASL Wave 20 monoblocks
    Pro-Ject Phono Box MKII


    [Car System]
    Pioneer Premier DEH-P860MP
    Memphis 16-MCA3004
    Boston Acoustic RC520

  29. #29

    Member Sales Rating: (0)

    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    Office
    Posts
    256

    Default

    If you you go to Stereophile archives they did a shoot out on 1090 and a Krell. Both had great reviews but the Rotel won in the end for a couple reasons in reviewers eyes. Price difference , Amazing sound stage and vocal clarity. The Krell is no slouch and it was a cat's whisker division decision.

  30. #30

    Member Sales Rating: (0)

    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Posts
    18

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Krazyz1 View Post
    If you you go to Stereophile archives they did a shoot out on 1090 and a Krell. Both had great reviews but the Rotel won in the end for a couple reasons in reviewers eyes. Price difference , Amazing sound stage and vocal clarity. The Krell is no slouch and it was a cat's whisker division decision.
    What preamp did they use with the Rotel? Sterophile is notorious for using an outrageous preamp with a fairly budget amp. The preamp makes a huge difference!

    I used my brothers Carver C1 preamp with a Carver TFM-75 with my Dynaudio Contour 1.3 SEs before I settled on the Krell 400xi. I am missing nothing and gained much!

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

     

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts