Do inefficient speakers sound good...

[OrangeToupee]

... in two-channel music-only environments?

I get so much varying opinion on topics like this, and I know that articles like this are designed, in part, as sales tools, but there could be something there as well. Do I get the LSi15's, or some horn monster to get that *live* concert feel? No more home theater crap, I want to "feel" some music ... you know?

[mantis]

Its a matter of opnion,
most higher end speaker are 4 ohms and in the 80's db.They just need more powerfull amps to make them sing.efficiency isn't or has anything to do with sound quality.

[OrangeToupee]

Mantis, did you read that link I provided in my post? If so, what do you think of it's message? The link is underlined, perhaps I didn't make it obvious enough. Here it is again ... Efficiency?

I found it interesting.

[mantis]

I glanced at it but I will go read it..hold on

[mantis]

I'm not sure how to take that article other then the manufactor justifing there product.
I have been around just about every speaker made.I can see where they are comming from.The easier the speaker has to work, the better off it is.This isn't always true in all speakers.Alot of speakers play there best at louder volumes.Being driven hard makes them open up and sing.
Still I can't answer your question ,As cut and dry.
I feel as long as you mate the correct amps your gonna hear them the best they can be.
For instince, the Wilson Watt Puppies sound dry and flat with any receiver that has been hooked up to them,As even mid line seperates have a hard time getting them to go.They demand a ton of clean and dynamic power with alot of reserve.Now enter into Krell mono blocks say the 300's,now the speaker comes to life with force and grace in the same sentence.Mated with Krell the speaker can now show off what It can do.They are a 4 ohm load speaker with low 80'sdb,I don't remember off hand exactly what they are rated,but i remember they are low.
Speakers with high db like 89,90,95 regin don't need as much power to get them to sing, but they still look for a sonic signature that they perform there best.To much power and the power is wasted, under power and distortion happens trying to get them to sing.
I have a balance theory and this is one part of it.
I don't know if I answered your question or went off in my own little world.
Post back if anything I posted made any sense.

[OrangeToupee]

Yes, your post did make sense; specifically, sonic signature and mating a speaker with the appropriate amp.

Off of the top of your head, would an LSi15 stand a good chance of performing well with one of Jolida's integrated hybrid (tube/solid-state) amps? Perhaps even their straight on tube amps? Tubes or hybrids are the direction I am heading, for sure, so I'm trying to find a matching speaker. Thanks.

[mantis]

Sorry,
I never had the pleasure of demoing there stuff.I heard of them and saw them somewhere but I can't recall.
The LSI's are going to need more power then the rt line no douts there.
I assume you are really digging there stuff.What brand speaker did you demo them on??how did they sound??
I wish there was a way to bring all the brands together in one big super audio store so you could test/demo something like that.There is many speakers I would like to hear cwith better then where they are amps.
I personally like the Vienna Accoustics line,I would love to hear them mated with a Rotel.Or even a Audio Research tube amp.Won't happen unless I just buy the speakers and take them around with me demoing them on everything I like.
This is what dreams are made of(for sick people like me)

[madmax]

The Jolida 302 works GREAT with the polk 1.2's if that helps any.
madmax

[gidrah]

The top 3 best sounding systems I've heard were high efficiency. Edgarhorns, Magnetar's B-glows, and John Wolff's classic repro's all on 5-15 watt tubes. They were all freaking huge, but the sense of realism and depth was amazing.

#4 would probably be when I heard some real nice M.L.s with a Krell amp. This system sounded beautiful. Different but nice. I was like wow that's great, but the H.E. stuff gave me goose bumps and made me giggle.

Check out http://www.classicaudiorepro.com/
They're in Brighton. I haven't been there, but I heard them in Lima.

[OrangeToupee]

Nice post and link, Gidrah. The next time I'm in Brighton, I'll have to stop in and have a look around.

[TroyD]

I just read the original article that Orange posted and I've got some issues with it.....

Basically, IMO, it's pure marketing propoganda but that's my take.

Efficiency, IMO, has absolutely no correlation with sound quality. More clean power is ALWAYS a good thing. What is better than 150wpc of good clean power? 300wpc, that's what.

Flat response is a GOOD thing, that should be the goal of the speaker. (Unless you are Dr. Bose)

I also don't quite buy the whole crossover argument either......a 2-way design is a 2-way design (or 3 or whatever). Compare apples to apples not apples to oranges, ie: a 2 way horn design to a 5 way design (ala DQ-10)....I mean, I get the more crossover points the less efficient a speaker can be BUT I've seen some horn speakers (Sansui's) that had some pretty intricate crossover schemes..

The whole voice coil thing applies to ANY speaker, and I think more so to an efficient speaker as they are more prone to being over driven.

Anyway, that's my take on it. They are just trying to sell some horns.

BDT

[mantis]

Amen.

[matthew_2]

It does not matter how flat your speakers are as much as you think. A speaker could be very linear from 20Hz-20KHZ, but the room would change all that. No-one has a perfect room. If you ask me the numbers can all go to hell! It's what ends up in my ear that matters the most.

[TroyD]

Matthew, you are right BUT that same argument is what Bose uses to defend thier speakers.....

Flat response is a very good starting point for a speaker.

BDT

[mantis]

I also agree,
the speaker needs to perform well,even in a so called perfect room, if the speaker isn't up to par,thats the end of that.

Matthew_2,
I can see your point,
the room has a great deal on how your speakers are going to sound.Many people skip this step I guess for lack of understanding.Roon acoustic's are so important to achiving the level of sound capable of a given system.Harmony between the system and room,from amp to speaker,from wire to componets,and speakers,everything matters.
This thinking is where I came up with my matching theory.I have found that it's a system,needing all to work to gether.

[mantis]

Another point I just thought of,
Bose.....I don't personally care for them,they are overpriced in my opnion,and they don't sound that good.
But Bose does alot of things right and has earned the respect of almost everyhousehold.
If you ask the average guy not really into home stereo but loves music and movies, he will tell you Bose is a good speaker company.People know there name.
All the Bose bashing that goes on and Including myself I feel needs to be tamed down abit.I think we can all learn something from there company.They even have there own stores,theres 2 of them around my way and people are always in there buying there stuff.
Like I said, they are not for me,But I'm learning a whole new way to approach this opnionated hobbie of ours.

[TroyD]

nope

Bose is all about marketing on false premises. I refuse to give any credit to a company that is fundamentally dishonest.

Troy