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  1. #1

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    Default Car Audio Swap-out - Basic Questions.

    This is my first real trip into the world of car audio.

    I have a 2006 dodge charger with the upgraded 6 speaker (boston Acoustics) sound system and 300 watt amp. (no idea how real that 300 watts is)

    The car head unit is a 6 disk changer, Sattelight radio and navigation system. (head unit (made by alpine) stays)

    I have 2 6x9 speakers in the rear deck (with an 8" subwoofer)
    6x9 speakers in the front doors (although the covers look round ?)
    3.5" speakers in the dash.

    Right now the sound is pretty good, but I know it could be alot better. What are my options if I wanted to purchase polk speakers but run off the factory head unit and amplifier?

    Do my options change at all to add a different amplifer to the mix? (replacing the factory amp (if that is even possible))

    I have LSi speakers at home that I really like. That is the "sound" I would like to try and recreate in the car.

    Thanks everyone - just trying to narrow down my choices.

    Michael

    Edit - forgot to mention I am interested in sound quality - not spl. If I can hit 105db (or so) peaks, that will be more than loud enough.
    Last edited by McLoki; 06-11-2006 at 02:41 PM.
    Mains.............Polk LSi15 (Cherry)
    Center............Polk LSiC (Crossover upgraded)
    Surrounds.......Polk LSi7 (Gloss Black - wood sides removed and crossovers upgraded)
    Subwoofers.....SVS 25-31 CS+ and PC+ (both 20hz tune)
    Pre\Pro...........NAD T163 (Modded with LM4562 opamps)
    Amplifier.........Cinepro 3k6 (6-channel, 500wpc@4ohms)

  2. #2

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    If the ohm rating with the new speakers is the same as with the OEM speakers, you should not run into any issues adding some aftermarket speakers. Recreating the sound that is in your home system may be a little difficult. OEM car systems are getting alot better than in the past, but are still a little ways away from the mid-fi to high-fi car audio gear. It would be helpfu to have a budget for your system, that way we can point you in a better direction. Having said that, I would start off by recommending a nice set of components up front. Running these speakers as your only front stage dirvers should really make a nice improvement in sound. The SR6500's are very nice set of speakers, there are also others. I myself am running Rainbow's which I am very happy with. A different sub, would probably help out filling out the low end a little better than the OEM sub. Doing these couple of changes might give you sound that you are content with, at least for a while :) (keep all the other drivers OEM). Adding more power to these upgraded drivers might be the next step.
    Alpine: CDA-7949
    Alpine: PXA-H600
    Alpine: CHA-S624, KCA-420i, KCA-410C
    Rainbow: CS 265 Profi Phase Plug / SL 165
    ARC Audio: 4150-XXK / 1500v1-XXK
    JL Audio: 10W6v2 (x2)
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  3. #3

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    overall I would like to stay under $1,000 but I would rather do the upgrade in stages. (sub + set of speakers + another set of speakers + amp).....

    With the front speakers (being 3.5") what would you replace them with? (tweeters from a component speaker system, 3.5" full range, etc)

    Is the polk/momo line of speakers that much better than the DB series? (the DB series seems to be more efficient - would it work better with my stock head unit and amp?)

    The only 8" sub is the polk / momo sub - I assume this would be a decent upgrade. Would you agree?

    Thanks for your help,

    Michael
    Mains.............Polk LSi15 (Cherry)
    Center............Polk LSiC (Crossover upgraded)
    Surrounds.......Polk LSi7 (Gloss Black - wood sides removed and crossovers upgraded)
    Subwoofers.....SVS 25-31 CS+ and PC+ (both 20hz tune)
    Pre\Pro...........NAD T163 (Modded with LM4562 opamps)
    Amplifier.........Cinepro 3k6 (6-channel, 500wpc@4ohms)

  4. #4

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    Yes the Momo line is a lot better than the DB's.

    The Momos are comparable to the RTi series with a similar sound. The DB's are more akin to the Monitors.

    As for options, stock sucks so I recommend ditching the dash speakers going with MM650's in the front doors (the MM690's would be better but I bet they wouldnt fit. You can either buy a 6x9 adapter for the 6.5's for like $20 or make your own out of plywood for $5) MM690's for the rear deck and the MM2084 for the sub.

    As for an amp, I recommend getting an aftermarket job and your choice will depend on how much work you want to do. The easiest would be to get a 4 channel and run all 4 speakers off the front channels and the sub off the rear channels bridged but then youd lose the ability to independantly tune between the front and rear. Another option would be a 5 channel amp which would take up less space, be cheaper than 2 amps, be easier to install and work just as well.
    polkaudio sound quality competitor since 2005
    MECA SQ Rookie of the Year 06 ~ MECA State Champ 06,07,08,11 ~ MECA World Finals 2nd place 06,07,08,09
    08 Car Audio Nationals 1st ~ 07 N Georgia Nationals 1st ~ 06 Carl Casper Nationals 1st ~ USACi 05 Southeast AutumnFest 1st

    polkaudio SR6500 --- polkaudio MM1040 x2 -- Pioneer P99 -- Rockford Fosgate P1000X5D

  5. #5

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    Stupid question, but do they make an LSi equivelant for the car? (and if they do, is it anywhere near my price range)

    From what I understand, you can fit a 10" sub with a small amount of fabrication work into the 8" sub location. Is there that much difference in your opinion between the 8" and 10" Polk/Momo sub? (worth the effort of modifing the opening to make it fit) Just as an FYI the car is very bass heavy now. (with mids and highs kind of muddled) - current settings are bass flat, mids +1, Treble +3)

    If I put the 6.5" speakers in the door and disconnect the speakers in the front dash, will the sound stage still be in front of me? Would I be better off putting tweeters from a component set in the front (or getting a component set for the front and put the bass driver in the current speaker position and mount the tweeters for them higher on the door or in the dash)

    Amp will be the last thing I purchase, but I will most likey purchase a multi-channel amp for all speakers so I only have to figure out where to mount one of them.....

    Thanks again,

    Michael
    Mains.............Polk LSi15 (Cherry)
    Center............Polk LSiC (Crossover upgraded)
    Surrounds.......Polk LSi7 (Gloss Black - wood sides removed and crossovers upgraded)
    Subwoofers.....SVS 25-31 CS+ and PC+ (both 20hz tune)
    Pre\Pro...........NAD T163 (Modded with LM4562 opamps)
    Amplifier.........Cinepro 3k6 (6-channel, 500wpc@4ohms)

  6. #6

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    No porblem, I am glad I can be of some assistance :).

    Quote Originally Posted by McLoki
    overall I would like to stay under $1,000 but I would rather do the upgrade in stages. (sub + set of speakers + another set of speakers + amp).....
    That's a good budget to start with. I think most of us have done our car audio in stages as well.

    With the front speakers (being 3.5") what would you replace them with? (tweeters from a component speaker system, 3.5" full range, etc)
    I would just run the components in the front and only that. I would just leave the 3.5" divers alone. Unless you want to mount the tweeters there, the usual place are higher up on the door or near the A-pillar/window sail area. Experimenting with tweeter placement is a good thing. Have a friend, or some tape handy as you listen to different possible mounting locations.

    Is the polk/momo line of speakers that much better than the DB series? (the DB series seems to be more efficient - would it work better with my stock head unit and amp?)
    The Momo line is that much better than the DB. The amount of effecienty you "give up", I believe will be compensated by better overall sound. These divers I will probably not offer sound close to what you have at home. A car is a difficult environment to deal when it comes to audio, but having the SR6500's in would help :). There are other component set available that offer better performance than the Momo's, but also cost less than the SR's.

    The only 8" sub is the polk / momo sub - I assume this would be a decent upgrade. Would you agree?-
    Yes, but only if the sub can be used in an infinnite baffle application, or you can make some sort of enclosure under the deck for it. I would contact Polk to see if it would be acceptable to use this sub for that application. Maybe someone else here can chime in for this part. I will look around to see if other subs fit the bill.

  7. #7

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    Guess I took a little while with my post :)......


    I would start witht the front stage though, and spend as much as could/felt comfortable with there. Better to get what you want the fist time around. You can then work from there.


    The soundstage will still be in front of you, as long as you fade most of the sound toward the front, and you put the tweeters higher up on the doors or window sails.

  8. #8

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    here is some info that I found out about the speakers/amp in my charger:

    I ran an RTA on the system and this is what I came up with for factory crossover points
    Dash speakers 400 HZ high pass
    door speakers 180 hz low pass
    rear speakers 90 hz high pass
    sub 70 hz low pass
    Supposedly for replacement speakers the amp expects to see a 2 ohm load and doesn't work as well with other ohm ratings.

    1) I put my sub in the factory location, which would not be boxed, sealed or ported. I did use dynamat. This arrangement unquestionably could be improved with an enclosure, if you are willing to forfeit the space. Be aware, the stock Boston sub has an "ear" mounting design, so aftermarket subs will require mounting modification.

    2 & 3) The car comes with 6X9's in the doors. They are on a 0-400hz low pass and thus are being used as bass for the front half of the cabin (the only place as drivers we care about ). I had seen on the LX forums that space was an issue (2-3/4" clearance), and went with 6.5 inch (2-3/8") and an adapter plate, no crossover. I did a quick measurement during my install, and I think a 3" top mount will work, regardless of configuration. Furthermore, there is plenty of room to move towards the door panel with spacers if needed, but keep in mind that the stock H/U is sending 0-400hz, so any 2 or three way speaker is moot.

    Hope this helps.
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Ok guys, this is to remedy the many questions regarding installing an aftermarket amplifier and subs into your Charger.

    First, a couple notes for those that have not already read previously posted information.


    1) The radios in our cars are made by Boston Accoustics.
    2) The radio and amp are CANbus.
    3) There is NO way to get a Line signal from our stock head units. (This includes tapping into the leads to the stock amp.) Our entire car runs on a digital network called "CANbus". Your radio communicates with the stock amplifier by means of the CANbus, meaning there is a digital audio signal being passed to the amp, NOT analog.

    This leaves us with three options. 1) Remove the stock head unit, and replace it, ditching the stock amp as a new head unit can't talk on the CANbus network, this will require more than one amp now.; 2) Buy the only adapter on the market that works as an In-Line device between the stock radio and amp, and provides a Line-Level output directly from the head unit. (Cost: $150); 3) Install a Line-Output Converter on one of the leads to one of our speakers. I say *one* of our speakers because you only need a mono channel going to a sub amp.

    4) There are active crossovers integrated into our stock amplifier.

    5) The larger the amp used, the larger the guage of wire needed to power such an amp. This being said, if you previously used 2 guage wire on your current amp for an install into a different vehicle, you are safe dropping down in size to 4 guage. The reason the larger 2 guage wire would be used normally is because of the distance the power has to travel. DC current requires a very large conductor to travel seemingly short distances. However, with our battery being in the trunk already, you can safely downsize your power and ground wires. (I used 100% 4 guage wire for this install, powering a 2000 watt amp.)
    Does this change any recommendations?

    BTW - the 8" woofer is in the rear deck (next to the passenger side speaker) and uses the trunk as the box for the back wave.

    Michael
    Mains.............Polk LSi15 (Cherry)
    Center............Polk LSiC (Crossover upgraded)
    Surrounds.......Polk LSi7 (Gloss Black - wood sides removed and crossovers upgraded)
    Subwoofers.....SVS 25-31 CS+ and PC+ (both 20hz tune)
    Pre\Pro...........NAD T163 (Modded with LM4562 opamps)
    Amplifier.........Cinepro 3k6 (6-channel, 500wpc@4ohms)

  9. #9

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    Infinite baffle is the same thing as using the trunk as the enclosure.

    Those crossover points seem to leave a good amount of gaps in the sound. The only think I can think of is that they are compensating for peaks in the frequency response within the vehicle.

    It seems as if you will need to do a little more than just a simple swap out of speakers.

    I would recommend fo the time being a HU, front speakers, sub, and a four channel amp. Later you could get rear speakers if you want and run them off the back channels from the 4ch. amp. The sub you could get another amp for when you get the rear speakers. You could also just get a 5ch amp with an integrated sub channel. I would take some time to think about what I want, the maximum budget I wanted to spend (as the amount of gear needed just changed), and how I want to go about doing it (what things to get first).

  10. #10

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    More reading. If I stay with the head unit. (it is really integrated into the car and I hate to replace all the stuff in it. (sattelight, NAV, 6 disk changer, MP3 decoding, Bluetooth phone, etc.) This is what the power and crossover distribution looks like.
    HTML Code:
    Location Watts   Frequency      Speaker
    Dash       24        100-16k      3.5
    Doors      60        <120         6x9
    Deck       60        100-18k      6x9
    Sub        46        <50           8
    Will the Polk/Momo speakers run ok with that power range?

    Michael
    Last edited by McLoki; 06-11-2006 at 08:30 PM.
    Mains.............Polk LSi15 (Cherry)
    Center............Polk LSiC (Crossover upgraded)
    Surrounds.......Polk LSi7 (Gloss Black - wood sides removed and crossovers upgraded)
    Subwoofers.....SVS 25-31 CS+ and PC+ (both 20hz tune)
    Pre\Pro...........NAD T163 (Modded with LM4562 opamps)
    Amplifier.........Cinepro 3k6 (6-channel, 500wpc@4ohms)

  11. #11

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    Quote Originally Posted by McLoki
    Stupid question, but do they make an LSi equivelant for the car? (and if they do, is it anywhere near my price range)
    The new Signature Reference line is along the lines of the LSi's. The SR6500's go for around $750 retail and are worth every penny!
    polkaudio sound quality competitor since 2005
    MECA SQ Rookie of the Year 06 ~ MECA State Champ 06,07,08,11 ~ MECA World Finals 2nd place 06,07,08,09
    08 Car Audio Nationals 1st ~ 07 N Georgia Nationals 1st ~ 06 Carl Casper Nationals 1st ~ USACi 05 Southeast AutumnFest 1st

    polkaudio SR6500 --- polkaudio MM1040 x2 -- Pioneer P99 -- Rockford Fosgate P1000X5D

  12. #12

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    You could give them a shot, but you would have to go with the channels that are 24 watts since those are the ones that will give you the widest frequency response. The only thing is that if the amp is desinged to run at two ohms, you will be giving those drivers even less power since they are 4ohms at the crossover. It looks like your stuck unless you get the $150 dollar aftermarket adapter. At this point that option seems like a good one. That will allow you to use the HU with external amplifiers.


    My next car I am going to make sure that I can add an afermarket setup.

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