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  1. #1

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    Default Krell Integrated amp

    I have an opportunity to purchase a Krell KAV300iL (not the KAV300i) amp locally if I can get the price where I want it. I was looking to upgrade to seperates from my NAD 7600 integrated beast, but the Krell name grabbed my attention. I know the reviews are glowing and the Krell name is gold, I just was trying to get away from the integrated "stigma." Anyone have any first hand experience? I couldn't find a sold price for this one, so I'm not sure what a good second hand purchase price would be. He is asking $1600 or best offer. I definitely can't justify going out and buying Krell quality seperates at this point in time.


    Lastly, he has 3 Audio Refinement seperates for sale. Tuner, power, cd. I wasn't familiar with them previously, and I have read that this line is being discontinued. Other than ergonomic concerns, I have read great reviews. Any thoughts on any of these pieces is appreciated.

  2. #2

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    Hi univera,
    I never used that model but was considering the 300i a few years ago at $1000. I think that $1600 is too much for that amp. I have heard better reviews about the 400i. Look around, I got a great deal on my Krell seperates.
    Venom
    Let me tell you something about life, around every corner monsters await. I know, I am one.

    If I owned hell and this place, I would rent this place out and live in hell.

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  3. #3

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    It is $1600 or best offer. I wasn't really looking for something this minute, but I don't find these high end pieces for sale locally very often. I like the idea of buying the piece locally and it is a one owner with all the boxes, etc, but I wouldn't pay much extra to do so. A Krell upgrade of any kind would be an improvement over my very solid 80's NAD piece, so bumping to a pricier 400 model isn't necessarily my goal. As I mentioned, I wasn't hunting something this moment, but this came along. If I knew what a good price was, that would help. I do know the piece retailed for not quite double, but retail is just that-RETAIL. Who pays that?

  4. #4

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    $1600.00 is right in line with the Bluebook price for the KAV-300IL power amp, so you're good.

    Venon is talking about their integrated amps and is correct that the KAV-400xi is a better unit than the KAV-300i.

    What "stigma" are you talking about? All the high end companies make stellar integrated amps these days.
    'Political Correctness'.........defined

    "A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end."

  5. #5

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    Buy it.
    HT/2-channel Rig: Sony 50 LCD TV; Toshiba HD-A2 DVD player; Emotiva LMC-1 pre/pro; Rogue Audio M-120 monoblocks (modded); Placette RVC; Emotiva LPA-1 amp; Bada HD-22 tube CDP (modded); VMPS Tower II SE (fronts); DIY Clearwave Dynamic 4CC (center); Wharfedale Opus Tri-Surrounds (rear); and VMPS 215 sub

    "God grooves with tubes."

  6. #6

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    An extra $200 will get you a 400Xi in agon used market.

    There is no stigma with integrated that I am aware of. I have the 400, solid and clean integrated.
    I am sorry, I have no opinion on the matter. I am sure you do. So, don't mind me, I just want to talk audio and pie.

  7. #7

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    400Xi rocks! ... in black!!

    I got it for $1900 brand spanking new! Had a long chat with the Krell marketing VP and he invited me to visit the Krell factory, which is only 45 minutes from my place.
    Distant Dream - A New Beginning
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  8. #8
    Stronzo
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    $1600 is an average price. Nothing special. If you are considering Krell, I *strongly* recommend you listen to it first... on your own gear if possible.

  9. #9

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    I have Stigmata, well back in the day I thought I did, turns out it was more about a Greatful Dead thing, but thats another story.

    You should buy a MF integrated, a Tri-Vista class would be nice and you would be done for a very long time unless you sold it to me!!! OK I am kidding a bit, but really I would not shy away from a quality integrated and MF is Mighty Fine along with the others.

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    Everthing Matters...Tubes Rule...and It's Over until it's Not Over

  10. #10

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    My expereinces with Krell are not good - the KAV series. I found them to be harsh (maybe demo was not broken in). Plus, the background noise from my speakers when nothing was in the source player. I was very surprised by this. My Rotel setup is clinical quiet. I know people laugh at Rotel but it is very good value plus they mate well with my B&W speakers.
    Strictly 2 channel
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    Listening Room:
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    Zu power cables & XLRs

  11. #11

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    Quote Originally Posted by miner
    My expereinces with Krell are not good - the KAV series. I found them to be harsh (maybe demo was not broken in). Plus, the background noise from my speakers when nothing was in the source player. I was very surprised by this. My Rotel setup is clinical quiet. I know people laugh at Rotel but it is very good value plus they mate well with my B&W speakers.
    Hi Miner,
    That is interesting. Which KAV's did you try? Mine are dead silent in the background, eerily so.
    Rotel tends to have a warmer but less neutral sound than the Krell usually. Bass is also not as controlled. If the room is reflective, I can see where the Rotel may have an edge. Is the 1090 the 380 watter?
    I know people who now use the Rotel digital amps with the 804's and are happy. I think it is the 1077.
    Venom
    Let me tell you something about life, around every corner monsters await. I know, I am one.

    If I owned hell and this place, I would rent this place out and live in hell.

    Mains: Anthony Gallo Reference 3.1
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  12. #12

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    Angry

    Quote Originally Posted by venomclan
    Hi Miner,
    That is interesting. Which KAV's did you try? Mine are dead silent in the background, eerily so.
    Rotel tends to have a warmer but less neutral sound than the Krell usually. Bass is also not as controlled. If the room is reflective, I can see where the Rotel may have an edge. Is the 1090 the 380 watter?
    I know people who now use the Rotel digital amps with the 804's and are happy. I think it is the 1077.
    Venom
    The KAV-300xi (?) - not out very long
    The 1090 is my pre; my amp is the digital 1092 - 500w/ch. My room is very reflective with wood floors, no curtains and few rugs, 12' ceilings.
    Strictly 2 channel
    Rotel RC-1550 pre
    Rotel RB-1582 amp
    Catcables Kingcats ICs
    APC S-20 line conditioner
    B&W N804 mains
    B&W ASW800 sub
    Rotel RCC-1055 changer
    Denon DVD 1000

    Listening Room:
    McIntosh C2300 preamp
    McIntosh MC452 amp
    McIntosh MCD-500 SACD player
    AQ Colorado XLR ICs
    AQ Columbia ICs
    APC H-15 line conditioner
    Sonus faber Auditor M speakers w/stands
    REL B1 subwoofer
    Rega P9 w/Lyra Delos
    Pioneer RT-707 R2R
    Zu power cables & XLRs

  13. #13

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    Never heard of Krell making background noise - you better get your equipment checked Miner (no pun inteded :D)

    Many do find the Krell harsh, but that's because it is dead accurate and very revealing. It's not fogiving like some others are ... but if you like listening to music that's not colored, Krell's a great option.
    Distant Dream - A New Beginning
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    (Now also available on iTunes)

  14. #14

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    a couple of things to consider about the 300il.
    1) it runs hot
    2) the original speaker terminals can be stripped if you tighten too much.
    the last upgraded terminals will not accept all spades.
    3) it is sensitive to certain types of designed interconnects with which it will
    humm.

  15. #15

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    As far as "stigma", goes, I knew I would catch hell from someone. Everyone is always so hardcore on seperates, and I haven't kept up with gear until recently, so I didn't realize integrated pieces were up to snuff these days.

    As far as sound and integrated pieces go, I am telling you, my 80's Nad 7600 sounds super sweet on the SRS's. I doubt one can get any better sound and power in an integrated for $5-600 on the secondary market.

    The Krell would be pushing the SRS's. I love the NAD sound, but I figured the Krell had to be better sounding, but of course, my ear might not think so. I read about the speaker terminal issues.

    Also, in regards to people being down on Rotel, Rotel amps were my first. Still have them, but they have been in hibernation for years. I ran two monoblocks on a pair of classic Kef 104/2 speakers (awesome, legendary speakers.) The Rotels rocked.

    Would the consensus be that NAD "colors" music? Crappy disks sound like crap on the SRS's and Nad, so I am sure they will sound even more "honest" with Krell, but I don't bother with junk recordings anyhow.....

  16. #16

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    Quote Originally Posted by univera
    As far as sound and integrated pieces go, I am telling you, my 80's Nad 7600 sounds super sweet on the SRS's. I doubt one can get any better sound and power in an integrated for $5-600 on the secondary market.
    Oh, you'd be surprised.
    HT/2-channel Rig: Sony 50 LCD TV; Toshiba HD-A2 DVD player; Emotiva LMC-1 pre/pro; Rogue Audio M-120 monoblocks (modded); Placette RVC; Emotiva LPA-1 amp; Bada HD-22 tube CDP (modded); VMPS Tower II SE (fronts); DIY Clearwave Dynamic 4CC (center); Wharfedale Opus Tri-Surrounds (rear); and VMPS 215 sub

    "God grooves with tubes."

  17. #17

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    I might be, but have you heard this piece, with all things considered? The power reserves/headroom and clean output are alot of bang for the buck and it is an all in one stereo only unit. But, as I mentioned, I have been out of the game until the past several months. I am curious to know what is comparable.

  18. #18

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    F1, my understanding is that the 300il is an integrated piece. It is the update to the KAV300i. More power, faster, prettier.

  19. #19

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    Quote Originally Posted by miner
    The KAV-300xi (?) - not out very long
    The 1090 is my pre; my amp is the digital 1092 - 500w/ch. My room is very reflective with wood floors, no curtains and few rugs, 12' ceilings.
    The KAV-300xi, even though it is a Krell, was probably underpowering the 804's. I was thinking of the Rotel 1095 amp at 380 watts, sorry. The 1092 looks interesting. My local dealer wants $2500 for it and $1500 for the monoblock. The new Nuforce 9's are also supposed to be good digital amps. I bet in a carpeted room with 8' ceilings, you would prefer the Krell.
    Venom
    Let me tell you something about life, around every corner monsters await. I know, I am one.

    If I owned hell and this place, I would rent this place out and live in hell.

    Mains: Anthony Gallo Reference 3.1
    Preamp: Modwright SWL9.0SE
    Amps: Butler TBD2250, PS Audio Trio
    PrePro: Cary Cinema 6, Outlaw 990
    DAC: Benchmark DAC1
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  20. #20

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    Univera, from Krell's site.

    KAV-300iL - 200W/channel remote control integrated amplifier, dating from 2001 thru 2002. So, it would appear that the Bluebook has it listed incorrectly as an power amp.
    'Political Correctness'.........defined

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  21. #21

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    Default F1 mistake???????

    :) F1, I didn't think you made mistakes!:) :) :) :) :) :) :) You will blow my little mind for sure! I will be a newbie for many years!!!!!!!!!!!! Since you have listened to way more high end pieces than myself, do you personally feel the amp will be a good fit for the SRS's? I read a review that while praising the amp, found the amp a bit cold and super honest and suggested carefully matching it to the right speakers. Are the SRS's perhaps too honest for the amp? I have a small room front to back w/carpet and the ceiling is high. Currently no drapes. I also have an open side wall. The SDA's seem to fill the room fine. I don't know that reflections are an issue.
    Last edited by univera; 07-08-2006 at 12:06 AM.

  22. #22

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    I didn't make a mistake, the Bluebook did! :)

    I haven't heard the KAV-300iL. I have listened to the KAV-400xi with the Krell SACD, but not on SDA's. I would say from the description, "bit cold and super honest" that you'll want to have the new tweeters in your SRS's. What source will you be using?
    'Political Correctness'.........defined

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  23. #23

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    Go for the 400xi if need be... skip the 300il.
    Joey's College Gear:
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  24. #24

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    Yes, I believe it also described as "very detailed" as well. Source currently is a very nice sounding Toshiba DVD player, but I expect to upgrade. The same seller has Marantz SACD which I was pondering and an Audio Refinement cd. I wasn't really looking for a new piece this moment but this surfaced. That's why it isn't as simple as just bumping up to the 400xi. Maybe this isn't what I need. I can't say I know exactly what all those descriptions sound like since I am used to Rotel and Nad sound. I am assuming it means "not laid back." When I purchased Def Techs a few months ago, they definitely have a different sound that is not as laid back as the SDA's. More detailed, up front, maybe?

    In regards to the tweets upgrade, that is all in the works as well as new caps, resistors, etc. I just need to get to it. I definitely do not like a bright sound, so if that is what very detailed is referring to, that might not work.

    The easy thing, I know, is to listen to the amp. Unfortunately, the SDA's are down for the count as I blew that tweet protection part in one speaker. I requested one from Polk as you suggested, but I it is going to be done as part of my internal rebuild which is in a holding pattern. So at best, I could only get a 3/4 listen.

  25. #25

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    Quote Originally Posted by univera
    So at best, I could only get a 3/4 listen.
    That wont be much of a listen then. You might as well audition a different set of speakers with the amps (yours and the one you want to buy).
    Joey's College Gear:
    Current Gear:
    SB3 -> PS Audio DAC III -> Cary Audio SLP-98Phono Tube PreAmp w/ Sylvania NOS 6sn7 tubes -> Plinius SA102 Class A amp -> Martin Logan SUMMIT/Strata Mini -> :D
    Old Gear:
    Martin Logan Vantage (4.75/5)-ML Mosaic (4.25/5)-Onix Ref1 (3.7/5)-Sonus Faber Concerto (3.5/5)-SF Concertino (3/5)-Axiom M22ti (2.75/5)-Polk LSi9 (3.75/5)-LSi7 (3.25/5)-HK AVR330-Rotel RC1070/RB1070/RB1090-SVS 25-31PC+ sub
    RUSH Med School 2008!!:D

  26. #26

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    Agreed. I can audition the BP 2000's or my Kefs. But, it won't really give me the feel for how they will sound with the SDA's.

  27. #27

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    The Krell really isn't bright or warm, its neutral. If you use Carda's or Harmonic Tech cables throughout you can actually make the 400xi sound rather warm. The 300il is almost identical to the 400xi. Having said that I'm glad I do have a 400xi if only for the better binding posts. The unit does run incredibly hot, much hotter then my SimAudio integrated I use to own, but it also outperformed my SimAudio by quite a wide margin as well.

    Try using copper based cables throughout your system if you decide to go Krell. Because it is so neutral, you'll find adding a tube based CD player or analog sounding unit like the Benchmark or Museatex Bitstream will allow all recordings to become much more listenable. The NAD stuff is great for the money, they offer lifelike dynamic's but lack of inner detail and build quality to be considered higher end hi-fi. There were some things I liked about a previously owned $500 NAD 320BEE intergrated over a $1800 SimAudio, both in the same system. Which is a feat in-itself.

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