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  1. #1

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    Default New guy with RTi12's on the way!

    Hey guys, great forum you have here. Here's a breif history of my audio habit. Always loved music and because I dont play any instruments I fell in love with good stereo equipment. My systems grew in complexity and power over the years. In the early 90's I bought an Adcom system. It was the best stuff the local stereo shop sold. Along with some Paradigm towers this system served me well. Marriage, family, and a strong powerboating habit stalled the audio habit right there.

    When I built a new house I had to give up the Paradigm towers so I did the HT thing. I prewired for ceiling speakers and installed Sonance D series for the front and rear and bought the Adcom GSP 560 to make my 2 channel system into pro logic. Even with a Paradigm center and sub this really didnt do it for me. I still longed for my old 2 channel sound. Recently I bought a Yamaha 5790 to handle the HT duties so my Adcom stuff has been idle.

    Ive decided to resurect my 2 channel system with a pair of Polk Rti12's. I know there are better speakers but this is what I wanted to try. I was impressed by some older Polk towers years ago and I wanted some large speakers that can be driven loud.

    My Adcom Componets are as follows:
    ACE 515 AC Enhancer
    GTP-450 Preamp/Tuner
    GCD-600 CD Player
    GFA-545II Amp 100 wpc
    GFA-1A Amp 200wpc

    Now Im sure the RTi12's can be pushed by either of these amps but my question is should I bi-amp them with what I have now?

    Im looking at buying another GFA-1A also so I guess it would be better to bi-amp with identical amps.

    Also whats the general consensous on passive bi-amping around here?

    If I wanted to go the active route can anyone guide me in bypassing the speakers crossover and which active crossover to get?

    Its been a while.... This is great!

    Ron

  2. #2
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    Welcome to Club Polk.

    If you're into 2ch. music, I would much rather have the LSI15's. Basically the same price, much better for music- and both the rti and lsi will require separate amplification, so you're not really saving any money by going the rti12 route.

    As far as bi-amping, I would much rather have two 545II's than two GF1's.
    Get another 545II.

  3. #3

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    I bi-amp our RTi12's with two channels of an Adcom 5503 (200 wpc) to powers the low end and an Adcom 5400 (125 wpc) to power the upper end...

    This kind of current will most definitely drive the 12's...but for two channel listening,Andrew is right,the LSi's were made for music.

    To me,the upper end of our 12's seem "thin" and on the bright side,I know this could be from the amps. and other gear that I'm using. I have also powered the 12's with a Parasound HCA 1500 and a Rotel RCD 1072 as the source,and still came away with a "dry and thin" sound.

    I use our 12's solely for Home Theater mains.

  4. #4

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    So you guys are saying that the LSi's with a single 8" woofer will out perform the Rti12's with 3 7" woofers? What about all the hype about the three 7" inchers having as much surface area as a 12" but with less mass to improve speed? Looking at the mid driver tweeter array they look the same. The main reason I didnt want the LSi15 was the arrangement of the woofer on the side. Ive had speakers like this before and have been dissapointed. I know that low frequencys are non directional but I have always enjoyed the effect of having all the sound coming from one plane. I just angle the speakers towards my listening area.

    So I guess you guys are just passive bi-amping. That is removing the metal strips on the speaker terminals and running two amps full range into the speakers crossovers. Anyone running an active crossover?

    aaharvel: Why would you rather have the 545II over the GFA-1A?

    Ron

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by rjcardinal
    So you guys are saying that the LSi's with a single 8" woofer will out perform the Rti12's with 3 7" woofers? What about all the hype about the three 7" inchers having as much surface area as a 12" but with less mass to improve speed? Looking at the mid driver tweeter array they look the same. The main reason I didnt want the LSi15 was the arrangement of the woofer on the side. Ive had speakers like this before and have been dissapointed. I know that low frequencys are non directional but I have always enjoyed the effect of having all the sound coming from one plane. I just angle the speakers towards my listening area.

    aaharvel: Why would you rather have the 545II over the GFA-1A?

    Ron
    the lsi15 and rti12 are completely different animals in terms of quality of drivers, the quality of the tweeter, and the musical re-production they both offer to the listener, especially if both are powered by separates. LSi build quality is better- The RTI line is more for home-theater, the LSI for music. The LSi is much more mellow sounding, the RTi has brighter sound. 3 7" drivers or not, I'd still take the 8" woofer in the LSi, particularly if it's powered sufficiently by your setup.

    I've heard the GFA1 and did not like it. That's just me. Way too foward, bright, etc. Put that with an rti12 and unless you like bright sound then imo you're not going to be happy- especially for 2ch. music.
    I would rather have the bi-polar 545II for the simple reason that it's tonal characteristics are a bit more like the newer, MOSFET Adcoms, which is laidback and warmer sounding.

    If you've already bought the 12's, congratulations they're nice speakers. Just make sure you're careful with what amp you mate them with.
    Last edited by aaharvel; 02-26-2006 at 02:01 PM.

  6. #6

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    [QUOTE=rjcardinal]So you guys are saying that the LSi's with a single 8" woofer will out perform the Rti12's with 3 7" woofers? What about all the hype about the three 7" inchers having as much surface area as a 12" but with less mass to improve speed? Looking at the mid driver tweeter array they look the same. The main reason I didnt want the LSi15 was the arrangement of the woofer on the side. Ive had speakers like this before and have been dissapointed. I know that low frequencys are non directional but I have always enjoyed the effect of having all the sound coming from one plane. I just angle the speakers towards my listening area.

    I guess it depends on what kinds of music you enjoy...If you listen to bass overloaded tracks,and don't care what the vocals and instruments sound like,then I'd say the 12's have enough low end for anyones taste.

    But,to my ears anyway,the tweeters are too bright and the mid-woofers are just too thin for good music listening...I would imagine if the 12's were powered by an amp. that is a little "warmer" than the Adcom,you would have better results.

    RTi Series=Reference Theater

  7. #7

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    I think you would like the LSi15 better for 2channel listening.. they are very good even compared to the RTi12. I wouldnt trade the tweeter on the LSi15 for the three 7" woofers on the RTi12.

    Ultimately, it's up to you.... but I would suggest that you try to listen to the LSi15 before making your final decision. If you still like the RTi12 sound, then by all means, get it.

    Joey
    Joey's College Gear:
    Current Gear:
    SB3 -> PS Audio DAC III -> Cary Audio SLP-98Phono Tube PreAmp w/ Sylvania NOS 6sn7 tubes -> Plinius SA102 Class A amp -> Martin Logan SUMMIT/Strata Mini -> :D
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    Martin Logan Vantage (4.75/5)-ML Mosaic (4.25/5)-Onix Ref1 (3.7/5)-Sonus Faber Concerto (3.5/5)-SF Concertino (3/5)-Axiom M22ti (2.75/5)-Polk LSi9 (3.75/5)-LSi7 (3.25/5)-HK AVR330-Rotel RC1070/RB1070/RB1090-SVS 25-31PC+ sub
    RUSH Med School 2008!!:D

  8. #8

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    Quote Originally Posted by Joey_V
    I think you would like the LSi15 better for 2channel listening.. they are very good even compared to the RTi12. I wouldnt trade the tweeter on the LSi15 for the three 7" woofers on the RTi12.

    Ultimately, it's up to you.... but I would suggest that you try to listen to the LSi15 before making your final decision. If you still like the RTi12 sound, then by all means, get it.

    Joey
    I don't think the LSI 15 has FAR better than RTi 12...Its maybe a bit more balanced and clear, but for the price you paid, IMHO is best budget the RTi.

    (also, looks FAR better than LSI)

  9. #9

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    Quote Originally Posted by *Seby*-Polk-
    I don't think the LSI 15 has FAR better than RTi 12...Its maybe a bit more balanced and clear, but for the price you paid, IMHO is best budget the RTi.

    (also, looks FAR better than LSI)
    The only thing, Seby, is that the RTi are too bright to my ears... but they're solid speakers, too. The LSi are just better overall IMO.
    Joey's College Gear:
    Current Gear:
    SB3 -> PS Audio DAC III -> Cary Audio SLP-98Phono Tube PreAmp w/ Sylvania NOS 6sn7 tubes -> Plinius SA102 Class A amp -> Martin Logan SUMMIT/Strata Mini -> :D
    Old Gear:
    Martin Logan Vantage (4.75/5)-ML Mosaic (4.25/5)-Onix Ref1 (3.7/5)-Sonus Faber Concerto (3.5/5)-SF Concertino (3/5)-Axiom M22ti (2.75/5)-Polk LSi9 (3.75/5)-LSi7 (3.25/5)-HK AVR330-Rotel RC1070/RB1070/RB1090-SVS 25-31PC+ sub
    RUSH Med School 2008!!:D

  10. #10
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    The RTi12's are a bit "bottom heavy" to my ears. Could be why Mike thinks, "...the mid-woofers are just too thin."

    As for the tweeters, yup, the RTi's are brighter, but I like bright. LSi's are so laid back, they make my ears yawn...

    rjcardinal,
    Welcome to the Club...

    If you're set on RTi's for budget or other reasons, give the 10's a good listen. Far more well behaved bass vs. the 12's. And, if you add a nice sub for HT, you're not likely to miss the few Hz of bottom end they give up.
    More later,
    Tour...
    Vox Copuli
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    Rebuilding Maggie 2-ch & Amazing 2-ch... Building 2-ch "wall"... Figuring out the HT

  11. #11

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    I like the bright sound. Is true that the RTi's have a brighter sound than Monitors or LSi's...maybe this is the reason i bought a Yamaha receiver and in the future, upgrade my Monitors to RTi's....

  12. #12

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    rjcardinal,please don't take my comments wrong...I don't dislike the sound of the RTi12's...I would'nt own a pair if I did.

    But,I just thought your initial question was concerning there sound with Adcom gear driving them...Tour is right about the 12's being a little Bass heavy,if you can find the "right" set-up to drive them,I think you will be very happy with the results:D

  13. #13

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    Thanks for the comments guys. If you couldnt tell by the title of my thread I had already bought the RTi12's before I found this forum and posted. The hi-fi stores around here are few and far between but I visited them all and auditioned speakers. Of course none of these places sold Polk. I listened to B&W, Paradigm, Klipch, and even a pair of $15K KEF's. The B&W's and KEF's were outstanding but out of my price range for the size speaker I wanted. I already have a pair of Paradigms that sound very good and balanced like you describe the LS series. This hobby for me is about experimentation and this time I was looking for a speaker with more of a presence that can be driven louder and could handle more amplification than the Paradigms. If I have to deal with some brightness so be it. Some of the most fun I had was with the Adcom GFA-1 and a pair of ragged out Klispch LaScalas that came out of a college bar. Talk about sharp or "bright" as you say now. I have always been drawn to Polk. Also I have always wanted a pair of speakers with several drivers. Just something I wanted to try. Circuit City is the only Polk dealer around here and their selection was miserable. Only one pair of the smaller monitor series. So I did my researsh online and came up with the RTi12's over the LSi's because I dont like the subwoofer on the side.

    Anyway the Polk's arrived yesterday. I am running them with just the GFA-1 now. They sound great. They are a little bright but as I moved around the room they sounded more balanced. So Im sure a little work on placement will help. Also I am not quite the purist as some of you and Im not afraid to adjust the tone controls on the preamp. At lower levels the loudness contour button works wonders.

    So now on to the experimentation. I will be trying passive bi-amping, verticle and horizontal with a pair of GFA-1's and the 545II. Yes I bought another GFA-1 so dont try to talk me out of it. Maybe the 545II for the high end and one GFA-1 for the low. I dont know what I will like but part of the fun is trying.

    Ron

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    Good choise Cardinal. You'll won't be dissapointed

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    rjcardinal,the 12's have very good imaging,work with placement and toe in and you will easily find the "sweet spot"

    I think the "thin" sound I'm getting from the upper end of mine might very well be the amps. I'd like to pick up some power one day that really has a set of balls...

    The 12's LOVE and crave a lot a power:D Have fun with your new rig.

  16. #16

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    don't let anyone knock the rti12s. i have a pair and am currently passive biamping with 4 channels off of my outlaw 7700. that is 400w and it really makes them come alive.

    now as for the problem with the highs and the rti12s... i believe it comes from incorrect crossover frequencies in the passive components if you will notice they are 120HZ and 1.8kHz respectively. i am currently doing research on actively biamping.

    my plans are to add an electronic crossover between the preamp and amps. at that point i am going to remove the first passive crossover (behind the 4 way binding posts). then i am looking into replacing the mid/hi passive crossover with one that has a higher crossover frequence (somewhere around 2.4-2.8kHz). I believe this will correct the problem of the tweeters being too bright.

    next comes many new problems. finding the correct amps to mate with woofers and high/mids. i must be very careful to identify what changes removing the first crossover and replacing the second will have on the speakers. things such as (but in no way limited to) phase responce, resistance, speaker sensitivity, intermodulation distortion have changed. it is important to account for every change that has taken place so that i properly mate the amps with the drivers. if i do this incorrectly i will most likely do much more harm than good.

    like i said i am currently doing the research for this transition. if you should decide to take on this difficult, but surmountable task. i would very much like to compare notes. to anyone else that has succeeded in doing something to which i have described i would also like to confer.

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    Ron...the RTi12s are great sounding speakers. IMO, they do better than LSi series in certain genre of music such as hard rock...enjoy them! You can tone the energy to the tweeters down a bit by playing with your equipment and cables....
    System 1: Onix Rockets 750 Sig. Ed., Rotel RC 1070, Rotel RB 1080, Music Hall MMF CD25 w/627opamps

    System 2: LSi15, Marantz SR8400, Rotel 1080, RM6800 (C&S), Yamaha: 2300 Univ. DVD, CDC-625RS.

    System 3: LSi7, Yamaha SW215, HK 230, Elite DV-45A; Sony C445.

    System 4: RTi100, Onkyo TXSV717Pro, Monarchy/Sonic Impact Hybrid, Yamaha CD.

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    I have owned the RTi12's, then traded up to the LSi15's. The 12's are good, but the 15's are far and away better speakers. If you listen to any music at all through this rig you will adore the 15's. They will also do a magnificent job on ht. As far as bi amping is concerned, being that it was you original question, I would recommend balanced amps. 2 545's should do well with the 12's, and it is a quality amplifier for the money. You will love your 12's.
    If you can catch it, I can cook it.

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