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  1. #1

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    Default organ & others - Placement Help!

    Ok, so now I have my speakers on the wall where I want them, and so I can play with them a little bit. I need some help with placement issues, such as how far from the back wall, side wall, each other, me, etc.

    For an idea of how my system's set up now, you can look at my thread in the club house. There are some pics in the first post.

    My speakers are about 80" apart right now, 10" from the back wall, and my listening spot is currently about 9' away, though that's much more flexible than is my speaker placement.

    So, at any rate, I guess I just need some general guidance for speaker placement. I don't have a whole lot of room to play with, but I wanna get it as close to right as I can. As you can tell in the pics there's a chest of drawers beside one speaker and a bookcase by the other, so I know it can't be ideal. I just want it 'decent'.

    I have yet to experience soundstaging and imaging, but I would love to do so, especially in my own room with my own rig!
    Quote Originally Posted by George Grand View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Jstas View Post
    Simple question. If you had a cool million bucks, what would you do with it?
    Wonder WTF happened to the rest of my money.
    My Saga
    Equipment Pictures

    [2CH]
    Rotel RCD-02
    Yamaha KX-W900U
    Sony ST-S500ES
    Denon DP-7F
    Parasound P/HP-850
    Parasound HCA-1000A
    Klipsch RF-35


    [In Storage]
    Yamaha CDR-HD1300
    ASL Wave 20 monoblocks
    Pro-Ject Phono Box MKII


    [Car System]
    Pioneer Premier DEH-P860MP
    Memphis 16-MCA3004
    Boston Acoustic RC520

  2. #2

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    AB, it sounds like you have them pretty well set up. You want you listening position to be the same distance from you as the distance between each speaker. In other words, form an isosceles triangle, you and each speaker are the same distance apart. Distance from the wall can vary depending on the bass response. Sometimes if the speaker is too close to the wall it will sound "boomy" or too much bass. Too far away from the wall and you lose the bass. Play the distance from the wall by ear.
    Carl

  3. #3

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    The only way you're gonna know is by experimenting with placement and toe-in. Often, a few inches can make a big difference. Listen to the same song (one you're very familiar with) as you make placement changes, then let your ears decide what sounds best.
    HT/2-channel Rig: Sony 50 LCD TV; Toshiba HD-A2 DVD player; Emotiva LMC-1 pre/pro; Rogue Audio M-120 monoblocks (modded); Placette RVC; Emotiva LPA-1 amp; Bada HD-22 tube CDP (modded); VMPS Tower II SE (fronts); DIY Clearwave Dynamic 4CC (center); Wharfedale Opus Tri-Surrounds (rear); and VMPS 215 sub

    "God grooves with tubes."

  4. #4

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    How small an area are we talking about for the 'sweet spot'? I mean, when I moved my desk chair back to the listening spot, I lowered it as low as it would go so I'd be closer to ear-level with the tweeters. Then I slumped in my chair to get closer. I suppose the sweet spot isn't actually that small. :D
    Quote Originally Posted by George Grand View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Jstas View Post
    Simple question. If you had a cool million bucks, what would you do with it?
    Wonder WTF happened to the rest of my money.
    My Saga
    Equipment Pictures

    [2CH]
    Rotel RCD-02
    Yamaha KX-W900U
    Sony ST-S500ES
    Denon DP-7F
    Parasound P/HP-850
    Parasound HCA-1000A
    Klipsch RF-35


    [In Storage]
    Yamaha CDR-HD1300
    ASL Wave 20 monoblocks
    Pro-Ject Phono Box MKII


    [Car System]
    Pioneer Premier DEH-P860MP
    Memphis 16-MCA3004
    Boston Acoustic RC520

  5. #5

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    Quote Originally Posted by audiobliss
    How small an area are we talking about for the 'sweet spot'?
    Depends on the speaker and associated gear.
    HT/2-channel Rig: Sony 50 LCD TV; Toshiba HD-A2 DVD player; Emotiva LMC-1 pre/pro; Rogue Audio M-120 monoblocks (modded); Placette RVC; Emotiva LPA-1 amp; Bada HD-22 tube CDP (modded); VMPS Tower II SE (fronts); DIY Clearwave Dynamic 4CC (center); Wharfedale Opus Tri-Surrounds (rear); and VMPS 215 sub

    "God grooves with tubes."

  6. #6

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    Bliss,
    Just took a look at your rig (also replied there).
    You've gotten great advice so far about placement and toe-in. I also do it by ear with pieces of music I'm very farmiliar with. The equilateral triangle set up suggested Shwarcw is the first big step. Do whatever you have to to make sure it's perfect. Use measuring tapes, strings, anything you may need. I noticed that being just a few inches short or too much on one side can really mess up your center image.

    One thing I know for sure about our speakers is to get them away from the front wall. Try to get them as far away as possible. Those rear firing ports are huge compared to what you find on other speakers. Even the review of the RF-3 on tnt audio suggested this. Mine are almost 3ft away. Depth of the soundstage should increase as you move them away from the front wall.

    Next up is the grilles. I remember telling you to keep them on. Well, I've played with placement even more since then and I've finally found the right spot. My first set up had the speakers closer to the listening area and having the grilles on sounded better. Well, since I moved them back, they sound better with them off. Try to live with them on and off for a few days each time and find out which one gives you more transparency.

    Like you, I also sit against the back wall. Try to find a thick blanket and hang it on the wall. Made quite a difference in my set up, especially with imaging and high frequencies.

    When it comes to toe-in, you really have to experiment. Too much and you get a very strong center image and depth but less width. It will sound like every performer in the soundstage are crammed together. Not enough toe in usually results in un-focused images with no depth and a weak center image. Concentrate on vocals and snare drums for the center image.

    Actually, the sweet spot for our speakers is pretty small compared to Polks because of the horn tweets on Klipsch. The high frequency energy are more directional as a result of using horns. So getting the speakers to dissappear is more challenging than conventional designs.

    That's all I can think of for now. If I find out I missed anything, I'll add it later.

    To those unfarmiliar with our speakers, here's a pic of the large port. That's why they sound much better being away from the front wall...
    Attached Images  
    CD Player: Original CD-A8T
    Pre: Antique Sound Lab Passive T1-X DT
    Amp: NAD C270
    Speakers: B&W DM6
    "I would rather have a cup of tone than an ocean of power" **Dr. Harvey Rosenberg**

  7. #7

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    I don't know why for sure, but any speaker I've had (sans Bose 901) always seems to sound best with about a 1/2" of toe-in; nothing more, nothing less.

    Source: Squeezebox Touch/CIA Power Supply
    DAC: Benchmark DAC/PRE
    Linestage: Placette RVC Passive
    Power Amp: Parasound HCA-1500A
    Speakers: Harbeth Compact 7ES-3 Monitor
    Subwoofer: SVS PB12-NSD

  8. #8

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    Thanks for the tips, organ. I'll set them up in an equilateral triangle arrangement and go from there. Seeing as how attaching a blanket to the wall is out, maybe I'll move my listening position in from the back wall a bit. I think I'll start listening to Darlin' Corey on my Big Mon CD religiously so I can get familiar with my system and then start tweaking things. After I get placement nailed down (if...), then I'll get into some tube rolling!

    steveinaz - Thanks. I'll start with 1/2" of toe in and go from there.
    Quote Originally Posted by George Grand View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Jstas View Post
    Simple question. If you had a cool million bucks, what would you do with it?
    Wonder WTF happened to the rest of my money.
    My Saga
    Equipment Pictures

    [2CH]
    Rotel RCD-02
    Yamaha KX-W900U
    Sony ST-S500ES
    Denon DP-7F
    Parasound P/HP-850
    Parasound HCA-1000A
    Klipsch RF-35


    [In Storage]
    Yamaha CDR-HD1300
    ASL Wave 20 monoblocks
    Pro-Ject Phono Box MKII


    [Car System]
    Pioneer Premier DEH-P860MP
    Memphis 16-MCA3004
    Boston Acoustic RC520

  9. #9
    Stronzo
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    Maurice gettin' kinky with his Klipsch..

  10. #10

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    Bliss,
    Keep us posted with your results after some experimenting.

    Sean,
    Oh yeah, they love getting my fist up their ports while sucking on tube juice;).
    CD Player: Original CD-A8T
    Pre: Antique Sound Lab Passive T1-X DT
    Amp: NAD C270
    Speakers: B&W DM6
    "I would rather have a cup of tone than an ocean of power" **Dr. Harvey Rosenberg**

  11. #11
    Stronzo
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    omg thats so h4wt. T0t3mz letz sex!

  12. #12

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    And here I thought that you might have actually contributed something to my thread...
    Quote Originally Posted by George Grand View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Jstas View Post
    Simple question. If you had a cool million bucks, what would you do with it?
    Wonder WTF happened to the rest of my money.
    My Saga
    Equipment Pictures

    [2CH]
    Rotel RCD-02
    Yamaha KX-W900U
    Sony ST-S500ES
    Denon DP-7F
    Parasound P/HP-850
    Parasound HCA-1000A
    Klipsch RF-35


    [In Storage]
    Yamaha CDR-HD1300
    ASL Wave 20 monoblocks
    Pro-Ject Phono Box MKII


    [Car System]
    Pioneer Premier DEH-P860MP
    Memphis 16-MCA3004
    Boston Acoustic RC520

  13. #13
    Stronzo
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    Hell no. This questions easy.. now get off your rear..

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