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  1. #1

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    Default Amp selection to power LSI system

    I've been searching and researching my upcoming HT/2 channel setup on this forum as well as others for quite a while now and finally have a question (the first of many I am sure). A little background...I currently have the TV (Sony 60" LCD), upconverting DVD player via HDMI, and 6412 DVR from comcast(also hdmi to the TV), and plan on purchasing pretty much everything else audio related in the next couple of weeks. My needs are approx 50% HT/ 50% music. I've pretty much decided on the LSI15s, LSIC, and either LSIFX or LSI7s for surrounds. I've heard the LSIs compared to several other speakers locally, and fell in love :). I am leaning towards an HK AVR 635 or 645 as a pre-pro with an external amp (not 100% on the receiver yet, although the fiance likes the HK look so it is an easy sale). I had my eye on an Outlaw 7500 (300x5 into 4ohm) which I feel would do the LSIs justice. Now I am still new as far as this stuff is concerned, and don't mind spending a bit more if the benefits far outweigh the costs, but value for dollar is also important. Since I am new to the various brands, does anyone have any suggestions as far as 5 channel amps are concerned? I'd like something in the 300x5 into 4ohm range or higher, at a decent price. Black or silver in color prefered. I've looked into Rotel 1095, some various Adcoms and of course the Outlaw. For the price Outlaw seems very nice, but I am sure there are many other brands I don't even know about which would fit the bill pretty well.

    Thanks in advance. I am open to any and all suggestions.
    Brien

  2. #2

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    just a quick suggestion... maybe you should ditch the HK idea since you won't be using its amp section anyway....

    Consider going with a dedicated preamp
    I never had it like this where I grew up. But I send my kids here because the fact is you go to one of the best schools in the country: Rushmore. Now, for some of you it doesn't matter. You were born rich and you're going to stay rich. But here's my advice to the rest of you: Take dead aim on the rich boys. Get them in the crosshairs and take them down. Just remember, they can buy anything but they can't buy backbone. Don't let them forget it. Thank you.Herman Blume - Rushmore

  3. #3

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    Other than the preamp suggestion(which I would look at the matching Outlaw 990 as a possible choice), I think you are on the right track.

    From previous recommendations, you might try going with the 7's for the rear if you are giong to be listening to any multichannel music throughout the system.

    Also, are you going to be adding a dedicated subwoofer into the mix?
    Tschüss
    Zach

  4. #4

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    Thanks for all suggestions. I have also considered the 990 preamp but was drawn to the HK for the price (635 are going for pretty reasonable now that the 645 is out) as well as the look. My line of thinking was to pick up something like an HK 635 now for a good price, then later upgrade to a dedicated preamp when HDMI switching/conversion/1.3 has been released and perfected. If a dedicated preamp will provide me with the best sound I will definitely consider going that route though and that opens the door to quite a few other brands/choices :).

    I am definitely going to be running a sub. SVS or Velodyne most likely. So many decisions lol.

    Thanks for the suggestion on the 7s vs FXs for multichannel music. I can see listening to multichannel music in the future so I will research 7s vs FXs.

  5. #5

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    If you (and your fiance) are in love with the HK look... and it is nice... maybe you might consider a HK240 or 235. Should save you even more money.

    The wattage specs between the models would be a non-issue, since it would only be used as a pre/pro.
    That being said... keeping leaning toward the dedicated pre/pro.

  6. #6

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    Yeh......zombie is right on the money. Lower model HK is OK as long as it has preouts for external amp/amps.

    Put your money towards a good amp and get the dedicated pre you want later. Also, look at Parasound and B&K amps. IMO they sound sweet with LSi15's.

    Cheers

    Gator:) :)
    Theatre System 5.1
    Sumsung HP-S5053 plasma
    Receiver Denon AVR 3806 Pre/Pro
    Parasound HCA 1500A amp (front L/R)
    Parasound HCA 1000A amp (centre)
    B & K AV5000 amp (bi-amp + surround)
    Dynaco ST70 tube amp (Herbie HAL-O9)
    polkaudio Lsi15 (Cherry) 2-channel
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  7. #7

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    Good call thnx. I'll compare specs/features/prices of some dedicated pre/pro with the various HKs.

    Any other suggestions or things to look for as far as separate amps are concerned?

    Thanks again for everyones help.

  8. #8

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    Gator you must have posted while I was replying :). I'll def look into those amps as choices to power my system.

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    Welcome Radoboy!

    Wow it's so nice to have someone come on to the club getting LSI's and KNOWS that they need separate amplification!

    Get your HK & and the Outlaw 7500 & enjoy!!!! But if you want to go all out the first time around, then get the matching Prepro from Outlaw as well.

    Other amps to look at are Parasound, Rotel, Sunfire, Cinemnova....the list is endless!
    Sunfire TGP III PrePro, Sunfire Cinema Grand Signature 405wpc 5 ch. Amp, Rotel RCD-1072 CDP, Onkyo TA2600 Tape Deck, Pioneer Elite 47-A DVD, Sony 32" XBR TV, Polk RTA-8T Main Speakers, Boston VR-920 Center Channel, Boston PV-600 Subwoofer, Polk DSW 400 Subwoofer, Polk FXi-3 Surround Speakers

  10. #10

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    Quote Originally Posted by radoboy
    Gator you must have posted while I was replying :). I'll def look into those amps as choices to power my system.
    Hey no problem. You will learn a lot on this forum and spend a lots of dineros too.............hehehehe

    BTW.......Welcome to CP!!

    Gator:D

  11. #11

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    Thanks for the warm welcome everyone...as well as the helpful suggestions. I believe in doing things right the first time, but am trying to stay within a set budget....which seems to be expanding the more I hang out on this forum :). I'll definitely keep everyone posted.

  12. #12

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    one of us....
    one of us....
    one of us....

  13. #13

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    Quote Originally Posted by radoboy
    stay within a set budget....which seems to be expanding the more I hang out on this forum
    Yeh.............no kidding. I started with $300.00 HT in box and now I'm in a few $1000. Right now I'm looking into dedicated 2 channel tube rig.............and ........and...........Oh boy..........but it's worth every penny.

    You will enjoy it! Very nice hobby and rewarding too.

    Gator:) :)

  14. #14

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    If you need help staying on budget, I have a set of LSi7's looking for a good home... :)

    The amp choices you have already listed are solid but I think Outlaw is about your best bang for the buck if purchasing new. If you are willing to purchase used - the list is endless (and there are great deals to be had).

    Sounds like you are building a heck of a system. Good job researching before purchasing. Many (including at times myself) could learn a thing or two from your example.....

    Michael
    Mains.............Polk LSi15 (Cherry)
    Center............Polk LSiC (Crossover upgraded)
    Surrounds.......Polk LSi7 (Gloss Black - wood sides removed and crossovers upgraded)
    Subwoofers.....SVS 25-31 CS+ and PC+ (both 20hz tune)
    Pre\Pro...........NAD T163 (Modded with LM4562 opamps)
    Amplifier.........Cinepro 3k6 (6-channel, 500wpc@4ohms)

  15. #15

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    Thanks I will definitely let you know about the 7s. I am currently researching the LSIFX vs LSI7 for my application/intended use. I am not against purchasing a used amp as it seems that will open the doors up to many other options. The Outlaw new does seem like a very good value though.

    So many decisions but no real rush here (although I am shooting for having most of the equipment here so I can install it by the end of the month). I have too many hobbys so I like to research everything and come up with a plan of attack...impulse buys come over me from time to time though :).

    Thanks once again for the help/comments. I am sure the neighbors will love me this time next month...but if they get a look at the setup I am sure they will understand :).

    Brien
    Last edited by radoboy; 10-04-2006 at 02:16 PM.

  16. #16

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    radoboy...I suggest doing a different brand of receiver/preamp than the HK if you are going to mate it to the LSi15. HK preamp sections are pretty laid back and sound great with conventional or bright speakers. I personally don't think it is a good match for LSi15s though....too much.... go for some thing less laid back if you must do a receiver....
    System 1: Onix Rockets 750 Sig. Ed., Rotel RC 1070, Rotel RB 1080, Music Hall MMF CD25 w/627opamps

    System 2: LSi15, Marantz SR8400, Rotel 1080, RM6800 (C&S), Yamaha: 2300 Univ. DVD, CDC-625RS.

    System 3: LSi7, Yamaha SW215, HK 230, Elite DV-45A; Sony C445.

    System 4: RTi100, Onkyo TXSV717Pro, Monarchy/Sonic Impact Hybrid, Yamaha CD.

  17. #17

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    Sounds good 2 + 2. Do you have any suggestions on feature packed receivers that are a better match to the LSi15s? I believe I have sourced my LSi setup and should be ordering here in the next week. I am now looking for decent deals on 300+ x5 into 4ohm amps as well as various receivers/preamps. I may just suck it up and go with a decent preamp from the get go (outlaw 990 looks nice) but am open to suggestions/other brands to look into. I am not looking to spend a whole lot on the receiver or preamp at this point due to wanting something in future which better supports HDMI conversion/switching/ver 1.3. Thanks.

  18. #18

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    If you insist on using a receiver then B&K, Bryston, NAD, Rotel, Anthem and Parasound to name a few have given more than a passing thought to an audio signal. Most folks fine them appealing to the eye as well. Your predicament is the 50%/50% split between HT and music. In general receivers compromise the audio signal. They tend do well with HT but are not optimized with music in mind.

    You might consider a fine 2-channel amp to power your fronts then add a five channel down the road if 7.1 is a possibility.

    RT1
    REEL TIME THEATRE
    Onkyo-TX-NR5007
    B&K 7270 amplifier
    Polk SWA-500 Subwoofer amplifier
    OppO BDP-83
    Pioneer Elite 50"
    Polk LCi-RTS-105;LCi-RTS-C;LCi-RTSFx;LCi80Fx
    Subs-Twin Polk CSW200
    HTS5000


    RABBIT HOLE RIG
    BAT VK-31SE
    VTL MB-450 Signature monoblock
    Wolcott Presence monoblock
    Musical Fidelity kW SACD
    Rega P25/RB600/Clearaudio Aurum Beta
    Acoustech Phono-Pre
    Sound Lab Millenium ELS
    BillyBags Rack
    MIT S1/3 cables
    Shunyata/PS Audio/Virtual Dynamics Power Cords


    Everthing Matters...Tubes Rule...and It's Over until it's Not Over

  19. #19

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    Very good point as I hadn't thought of that before. I have heard people mention that a preamp is the way to go over a recevier as a pre. Now that you explain receivers may compromise audio quality when used for music duties I understand why. Lots of decisions to make, research to do, features to compare...thanks again for everyones help.

  20. #20

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    oH yes, and welcome to CP, we are practically neighbors. If you get up this way let me know and we can do a demo.

    RT1
    REEL TIME THEATRE
    Onkyo-TX-NR5007
    B&K 7270 amplifier
    Polk SWA-500 Subwoofer amplifier
    OppO BDP-83
    Pioneer Elite 50"
    Polk LCi-RTS-105;LCi-RTS-C;LCi-RTSFx;LCi80Fx
    Subs-Twin Polk CSW200
    HTS5000


    RABBIT HOLE RIG
    BAT VK-31SE
    VTL MB-450 Signature monoblock
    Wolcott Presence monoblock
    Musical Fidelity kW SACD
    Rega P25/RB600/Clearaudio Aurum Beta
    Acoustech Phono-Pre
    Sound Lab Millenium ELS
    BillyBags Rack
    MIT S1/3 cables
    Shunyata/PS Audio/Virtual Dynamics Power Cords


    Everthing Matters...Tubes Rule...and It's Over until it's Not Over

  21. #21

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    Radoboy welcome to the club man! Everybody here is pretty much family anyways so IMO (not always everybody else's) there are no stupid questions. If I was you I'd get the FX for the surrounds and place them on the side walls. For listening to music 2-channel is so much better IMHO. And the 15's are MORE than enough to qualify as great sounding fronts. But if I was you and I may not be you LOL But I'm just saying this is the way I'm gonna do mine when funds support me.

    Right now I have Monitor 40 fronts, CS1 center, and Paradigm Cinema ADP surrounds w/a Velodyne VRP-1200 sub, all powered by an Onkyo 503. It's all BS HT in the minds of audiophile's but it dont sound TOO bad. What I'm gonna do is get an Outlaw Audio 990 prepro and 7700 7-channel amp. I'm doing 15 fronts, LSiC center, FX side surrounds and 9's for rear surrounds. Now the key thing to remember about doing surrounds is they go up about 6 feet on the wall and sides (bipoles) are directly across from your listening area and rears are directly behind your listening spot with your spot in between them. Put your spot right about middle of the room so you can be in the null area. As far as subwoofer goes dont get velodyne unless you feel like spending $1,500+ to get one of their better high end subs. I spent like $350 on my Velodyne and while it does alright I wish I would have waited and bought the SVS PB10-NSD. Velodyne DOES make a bad ass sub but they're not all that great until you reach like $2,000. Dont be like me and get suckered into that deal. SVS makes a great sub regardless if it's their PB10-NSD at $430 or their PB12-Ultra/2 at $2,300.

    Well I hope all this babbling and rambling on helps you out a little bit. It sounds like you got your mind set to go out and purchase a great sounding HT/2-channel system. Dont forget when you get all this to lay down some acoustic panelling and get real good thick speaker wire good interconnects. A lot of people will argue with me but I like Monster Cable all the way around.

    Take care and hope to hear how it sounds!
    Don't forget to look at My Home Theater :D

    Receiver - Onkyo TX-SR503
    Fronts - Polk Audio Monitor 40
    Center - Polk Audio CS1
    Surrounds - Paradigm Cinema ADP
    Subwoofer - Velodyne VRP-1200

  22. #22

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    rt1: Thanks for the offer. Where are you located btw? I'm up in GA from time to time so I may take you up on that. I'm hoping to get my setup in place for the FL/GA game :).

    josh(and all): Very good info and thnx to everyone for the warm welcome. Right now my living room/theater room is approx 17.5x17.5 or so with vaulted ceilings, a set of french doors on each side of the fireplace on the right side of the room, a solid wall which opens to the foyer/entrance around where the TV is on the left side of the room, and the couch (pretty large L sectional) is against the back wall/left side wall. So far from ideal conditions, but I'll make due with some bad ass equipment for now, and still have it if we decide to build another house (in that case it WILL have a dedicated theater room). I have pretty much decided to go with the FX. I am sure if I decide later to get into multichannel music these will suffice, and I can always test something else out if these don't fit the bill.

    I appreciate all of the tips/suggestions. I've had my eye on an SVS sub and will probably check them out and decide. I'm sticking with a 5.1 setup for now due to the seating position we have in this room. For speaker connections I will definitely go with something high quality good thickness. Also are balanced connections worth the expense over unbalanced?

    Thanks to everyone for the warm welcome and prompt/educated replies in here. I can see myself hanging out at CP for quite some time...which is a bad thing in a good way :).

  23. #23

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    Quote Originally Posted by radoboy
    Sounds good 2 + 2. Do you have any suggestions on feature packed receivers that are a better match to the LSi15s?
    I know that people here seem to like Denons for preamp duty. Another forum seem to favor Yamahas. I used to have a Rotel 1068. I only noticed a small difference when I went to Marantz SR8400 for preamp, center and surrounds. Marantz is definately less feature packed than the Rotel was...but didnt matter to me that much..but my use is 90% music and 10% HT....

    BTW, my HK 230 goes very well with my LSi7s....but I think 7s sound different (more conventional) than the 15s.....good luck and welcome..
    System 1: Onix Rockets 750 Sig. Ed., Rotel RC 1070, Rotel RB 1080, Music Hall MMF CD25 w/627opamps

    System 2: LSi15, Marantz SR8400, Rotel 1080, RM6800 (C&S), Yamaha: 2300 Univ. DVD, CDC-625RS.

    System 3: LSi7, Yamaha SW215, HK 230, Elite DV-45A; Sony C445.

    System 4: RTi100, Onkyo TXSV717Pro, Monarchy/Sonic Impact Hybrid, Yamaha CD.

  24. #24

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    Sure thing. Brunswick.

    RT1
    REEL TIME THEATRE
    Onkyo-TX-NR5007
    B&K 7270 amplifier
    Polk SWA-500 Subwoofer amplifier
    OppO BDP-83
    Pioneer Elite 50"
    Polk LCi-RTS-105;LCi-RTS-C;LCi-RTSFx;LCi80Fx
    Subs-Twin Polk CSW200
    HTS5000


    RABBIT HOLE RIG
    BAT VK-31SE
    VTL MB-450 Signature monoblock
    Wolcott Presence monoblock
    Musical Fidelity kW SACD
    Rega P25/RB600/Clearaudio Aurum Beta
    Acoustech Phono-Pre
    Sound Lab Millenium ELS
    BillyBags Rack
    MIT S1/3 cables
    Shunyata/PS Audio/Virtual Dynamics Power Cords


    Everthing Matters...Tubes Rule...and It's Over until it's Not Over

  25. #25

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    Quote Originally Posted by radoboy
    Also are balanced connections worth the expense over unbalanced?
    I think they do. Think of it like this way:

    Balanced to unbalanced as fiber optic is to coaxial. You see the difference? That's the way I feel about it.
    Don't forget to look at My Home Theater :D

    Receiver - Onkyo TX-SR503
    Fronts - Polk Audio Monitor 40
    Center - Polk Audio CS1
    Surrounds - Paradigm Cinema ADP
    Subwoofer - Velodyne VRP-1200

  26. #26

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    Just an update for everyone who has helped me out.

    I placed an order for LSi15s, LSiC, and LSiFX this am. After talking to you guys and doing some thinking, I decided to just go with the Outlaw 990 and Outlaw 7500 so I ordered them as well. I can't wait to get my new toys. I'm seriously considering an SVS PB12 Plus/2 sub in cherry, but I am already over my self imposed budget. My fiance says just go ahead and get it but damn that thing is huge. So some more research/decision time.

    Now I am looking into speaker wire, connectors, balanced connectors from the pre to amp etc. I know there are separate forums for those things, but if anyone has recommendations on where to buy, what to use etc I am open to them. I was thinking of purchasing some bulk speaker wire (heavy gauge, higher quality) and running with locking bananas or spades. For the balanced connectors I will need to see where I am going to fit the 990/7500 so I can determine length needed. Probably too deep for my TV stand so they may be in a dedicated rack/stand.

    Thanks again...I know what I will be doing with my free time for the next few weeks.

  27. #27

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    WOW! WTG Rado! You are going to have a slamming system!

    As far as wire goes, I like the options, price & quality of Blue Jeans Cable. www.bluejeanscable.com.

    Others here recommend the more expensive but homemade as well Signal Cable. www.signalcable.com. If you mention you are a club Polk member he gives you a small discount.

    This is as deep as I will ever go into the wire recommendations/debate!
    Sunfire TGP III PrePro, Sunfire Cinema Grand Signature 405wpc 5 ch. Amp, Rotel RCD-1072 CDP, Onkyo TA2600 Tape Deck, Pioneer Elite 47-A DVD, Sony 32" XBR TV, Polk RTA-8T Main Speakers, Boston VR-920 Center Channel, Boston PV-600 Subwoofer, Polk DSW 400 Subwoofer, Polk FXi-3 Surround Speakers

  28. #28

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    Very cool thanks. I've checked out blue jeans but not signal. I'll check them out and keep searching. I can tell there are lots of mixed reviews/opinions on this already :).

    Thnx

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    cable seems to almost be a personal choice based on components, room and listener requirements. What is perfect in one system may not be the best choice for another.

    To start with I would get good quality but not super expensive cable and upgrade as you see fit to tweek the sound more to your liking. For that purpose - I also recommend blue jeans cable. While not the be all end all in cable, it is an excellent starting point that doesn't cost an arm and a leg.

    Michael
    Mains.............Polk LSi15 (Cherry)
    Center............Polk LSiC (Crossover upgraded)
    Surrounds.......Polk LSi7 (Gloss Black - wood sides removed and crossovers upgraded)
    Subwoofers.....SVS 25-31 CS+ and PC+ (both 20hz tune)
    Pre\Pro...........NAD T163 (Modded with LM4562 opamps)
    Amplifier.........Cinepro 3k6 (6-channel, 500wpc@4ohms)

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