Phono Stage

[jm1]

I had considered resurrecting a TT in the two channel system since the beginning of the year. I have always looked at TTs whenever I visit audio establishments. Until the beginning of the year, this has always been more of a curiosity as I was not planning on unpacking all the LPs of yesterday and once again participate in the analog rituals.

I had thought of just buying a phono stage for an existing Technics DD table I have, but decided against this course of action. Several years ago, I tried the Technics table with an Audio Technica AT-122LP cartridge when I had a Rotel preamp (built in phono stage) in the main system. I was not overly impressed with the results and decided at the time to repackage everything.

Fast forward to present. I have completed many changes to the system since the previous TT trial. The system is at a level where it will be left unchanged until required. I am extremely happy with the digital sources, but have been curious about all the comments regarding analog sources. I had played several cassettes I recorded last century using dbx type II NR on a three head player. I was quite impressed with the results; holding this thought, I might unpack the player, dbx NR unit and the 600-700 90 minute Maxell cassettes I have for use in the main system. Maybe one day when the kids are older I can move all the HT stuff to another room and have the audio room dedicated to two channel music…

I had been looking at Project tables lately and was specifically interested in the Xperience table. I am in no hurry for any purchases as I will need additional equipment (phono stage, additional ICs and a table for the TT) to properly locate the table in the audio room. I had to go to a local establishment last week to purchase 8 footers for my Simaudio components. They had a VPI HRX table ready to be packaged for delivery to a customer. All I can say is that this is one fine example of a component. I started looking online and noticed several VPI TTs within budget and started inquiries.

One establishment had a used Scout for sale. For $150 more, I could get a new one and get a deal on a cartridge if purchased at the same time. I decided to go with the new Scout and a Dynavector 10x5 cartridge. The cartridge will be installed this weekend and with delivery next week.


Now that I have the TT and cartridge, I was wondering what phono stages you have used and would recommend for use and which were disappointing. The budget is about $500. I have looked at several locally these past few weeks. There is a Project Phono Box SE that looks interesting. I have also thought about the new PS Audio phono stage unit using their Gain Cell technology (used purchase).

The phono stage will be many feet away from the two channel preamp due to room placement restrictions and might require a 6 foot or longer IC. I plan on having the TT and phono stage on a solid oak ‘telephone’ table which will be leveled with spikes on a concrete floor. The oak table also has a shelf that will allow for some convenient record storage as well as provide mass loading.

The phono stage purchase will be deferred to a future date (one or more months) as I have exceeded an audio purchase budget (not mine) during these past 18 months. The two channel configuration can be found in this thread.

Thanks for taking the time to read this post.

[madmax]

For around 300-400 I had a lot of fun with the Jolida JD9. Just saw one on agon going for $300. It's got a lot of flash, balls and sparkle. Not the last word on neutrality or low noise but you won't find that under a grand anyway. Or, if you do it will have some other big flaw. The JD9 is nice because it has a massive range of output options which would allow you to make a good connection without taking a chance of living with too low or high of an output.

[cmy330go]

Not long ago I was able to hear that turntable and cartridge at Music Direct in Chicago. I myself was shopping for phono pre-amps and had my eye on the $1000 Monolithic. However, while talking to a gentleman there (think his name was Tony) he directed me to the Dynavector P75. I was able to listen to it for a while with the setup you just bought. I can't really go into detail since it has been a while since I have heard it, but I remember liking it enough that I'm still planning on getting one for myself. If you're interested in trying it, you might give Music Direct a call and ask if they have had any returned. Usually the will give a pretty good discount for these units and of course you still get full warranty.

Enjoy your new rig!!!!

[jm1]

The TT (dealer mounted the cartridge) with a dust cover are waiting at home for me! I have borrowed a Project Tube Box SE (I will be purchasing a different phono stage in two weeks time) and will be having a listen to this combination. I managed to retrieve some records from storage so I have some media to playback for the next while. Now I need to find an accessable location for the remainder of the LPs.

Thanks for the phono stage suggestions.

JM

[mhardy6647]

If you can live with an MM cartridge, very tought to beat the Bottlehead Seduction:
http://www.bottlehead.com/et/adobesp.../seduction.htm

[cmy330go]

Has anyone here had one of these, or at least had some significant time with it? I eventually need to get a phono stage for the TT on my HT system, and I thought this might be a good option. However I'm very curious of the price/performance ratio. I'd hate to spend time and money on a kit, especially if I can get the same performance from a similarly priced unit off the shelf.

[hearingimpared]

First of all you absolutely, positively can't go wrong with VPI. . .I heard this little guy and it was quite the performer: and very inexpensive - $250

MUSIC HALL BELLARI VP129 TUBE PHONO STAGE W/HEADPHONE OUTPUT

http://www.elusivedisc.com/prodinfo.asp?number=MHVP129

I'm still living in the stone age with my VPI TT but it is still quite the performer!!!

[cmy330go]

First of all you absolutely, positively can't go wrong with VPI. . .I heard this little guy and it was quite the performer: and very inexpensive - $250

MUSIC HALL BELLARI VP129 TUBE PHONO STAGE W/HEADPHONE OUTPUT

http://www.elusivedisc.com/prodinfo.asp?number=MHVP129

I'm still living in the stone age with my VPI TT but it is still quite the performer!!!

That is actually the phono stage I had in mind as a comparison to the kit. In fact my father has that preamp with a Music Hall MMF-5. When he got it I was able to spend a couple weeks with it in my system and was very impressed with it.

I'm just curious if the Bottlehead would be better, and if so, how much.

BTW If you are going with a moving coil cartridge these may not be the best choices. Neither of them have much gain. The Bellari was great on my MMF-2.1 but was not quite enough for the MC on my MMF-7. Just FYI.

[jm1]

Thanks for the suggestions. At this time, I have a high output MC cartridge so a phono stage with low gain would be fine. Next year, I might try a low output MC cartridge so I would need the extra gain.

I will be purchasing DarqueKnight's PSA GCPH. Maybe next year when the funds recover, I will send this in for the mods offered at Underwood HiFi.

The VPI is a great table. I am really impressed with the build quality. It is going to take time getting used to the unipivot tonearm.

I do have one question; the table and motor are separate units. How much tension should I place on the belt? I have moved the motor unit over so the belt is fairly taunt, but do not want to place any undue stress on it. It appears to run fine without any slipping. What is recommended as I have always had DD TTs in the past.

[madmax]

My gorbe motor is a factory set distance away from the table and they have it set up to where you just start stretching the belt maybe two inches away the motor pully. Not very tight.

[mhardy6647]

Has anyone here had one of these, or at least had some significant time with it? I eventually need to get a phono stage for the TT on my HT system, and I thought this might be a good option. However I'm very curious of the price/performance ratio. I'd hate to spend time and money on a kit, especially if I can get the same performance from a similarly priced unit off the shelf.

If you are asking about the Seduction... I'd say it's impossible to beat for the $ (providing you don't mind -- or even enjoy -- slinging your own solder). I've been using one since they first became available.

[jm1]

I finally received the PSA GCPH phono stage in the mail. I will make a mental note to myself not to have items shipped during the days leading into the holiday season. Thanks, DarqueKnight, for all your assistance.

Last night after watching a holiday concert on PBS and completing some domestic chores, I setup all the analog components and leveled the TT. When everything was connected and powered on, there was an annoying hum. I tried grounding the table to the phono stage and did not experience any relief. As it was late at night, I retired for the evening.

When I woke in the morning, I realized my entire system uses balanced power. I had plugged the TT/GCPH into the same outlet the balanced power unit uses. I thought this would negate any ground loop problems associated with the TT. I removed a non essential component (RPTV) and plugged in the TT/GCPH components into the balanced power unit. This solved the hummmmm problem.


I then played several songs from some albums. I noticed that the soundstage appeared to be shifted to the right. In the distant past, I had a conventional TT with a “J” shaped arm. The anti-skating adjustment corresponded to the tracking force and all I needed to do was set the numbers to be the same. I then moved onto a liner tracking table and had that for many years. There were even fewer setup items on this table.

The new table had the cartridge mounted and the tracking force set. I realize I will need to get a tracking force gauge, but this can wait until a later date. The VPI Scout uses the cartridge leads as an anti-skating adjustment. I believe there is also a mechanical version available for the arm. I untwisted the leads one turn to adjust the anti-skate force. I listened once again to the songs and the soundstage was centered.

It has been a long time since I have used a pivot tonearm. Was I correct in adjusting the anti-skating to correct the location of the soundstage? If not, what should I have done? I do not want to place any unnecessary wear and tear on the cartridge or LPs.


Overall, I am impressed with the sonic characteristics of the analog source. I have only just begun to setup these components and look forward to further experimentation. My goal is to meet (or exceed) the output characteristics of the digital source (Museatex DAC).

JM

[jm1]

Just talked to one of my coworkers; his father-in-law is an avid music lover and collector. Apparently he has multiple copies of just about any type of music; some unopened. He also makes regular rounds around town or any other location he happens to be at to search for used material. In all, he says there are about 150,000 recordings (100,000 CDs) in the collection. He also sells (ebay) from his collection !!!!!

He is going to talk to him so hopefully I can visit and expand my collection. Even if the numbers are exaggerated, this should be interesting.