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  1. #1

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    Default Where's the bass?

    Okay, so here is my problem. I swapped out my Onkyo AVR for a nicer Pioneer Elite AVR. I forget the exact model number of the Pioneer right now. Anyways, the bass from my subwoofer is just not producing nearly the same amount of bass that was being provided with the Onkyo. I am using a Sunfire True Subwoofer. When I go through the speaker level calibration, the subwoofer shakes the house, so its not that. Its just that when I am playing a game or movie, the bass is just much, much weaker than what I am used to.

    Things I have done to remedy this situation;

    Increased the LFE to +10 in both Free and THX modes.
    Set the subwoofer to PLUS in the settings (allows fronts to be set to large, but sub still gets front bass)
    Adjusted the crossover accordingly
    Moved the sub to its own 20 amp circuit (supposedly its a 2700W amp on the sub)
    Increased gain all the way.

    Anyways, the bass just isn't there anymore. Is this a problem with Pioneer Elites? Help, I miss my bass.

  2. #2

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    Oinkers rule!

  3. #3

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    Default

    Well, be that as it may, I still want my bass back. FWIW, the Pioneer is clearly better for the other 5 speakers. Even my wife could notice the difference immediately.

  4. #4
    Old Polk
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    Have you tried switching the front/mains to small?
    • Innersound Eros MK III hybrid ESL - Innersound Bass/Active Crossover amp - Sanders Sound ESL amp
    • SVS PB12-Ultra/2 sub
    • PS Audio GCP-200 preamp w/external PS
    • Bluenote Bellavista table w/Sig.5 arm and Dynavector 20-x - The Clamp - PS Audio GCPH
    • Wadia 301 CD transport - Schiit Gungnir DAC
    • MIT Shotgun S1 IC's and speaker cables
    • PS Audio P3 Power Plant
    • Panasonic 58" plasma - Denon 3805 - PS Audio GCA-250 - Revel Ultima Gems and LE1/Sub15

  5. #5

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    Yep.

  6. #6
    Old Polk
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    Calibration/setup is performed by the DVD player or the AVR?
    • Innersound Eros MK III hybrid ESL - Innersound Bass/Active Crossover amp - Sanders Sound ESL amp
    • SVS PB12-Ultra/2 sub
    • PS Audio GCP-200 preamp w/external PS
    • Bluenote Bellavista table w/Sig.5 arm and Dynavector 20-x - The Clamp - PS Audio GCPH
    • Wadia 301 CD transport - Schiit Gungnir DAC
    • MIT Shotgun S1 IC's and speaker cables
    • PS Audio P3 Power Plant
    • Panasonic 58" plasma - Denon 3805 - PS Audio GCA-250 - Revel Ultima Gems and LE1/Sub15

  7. #7

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    AVR with the mic.

  8. #8
    Old Polk
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    Are you using digital optical sound or analog pre-outs from the DVD player?

    Hmmm... you said games were also affected. I thought maybe there was a setup mismatch between the AVR and DVD player.

    If your DVD player has on-screen setup, I'd walk through that once and see if anything jumps up. The games issue clouds the water here.
    • Innersound Eros MK III hybrid ESL - Innersound Bass/Active Crossover amp - Sanders Sound ESL amp
    • SVS PB12-Ultra/2 sub
    • PS Audio GCP-200 preamp w/external PS
    • Bluenote Bellavista table w/Sig.5 arm and Dynavector 20-x - The Clamp - PS Audio GCPH
    • Wadia 301 CD transport - Schiit Gungnir DAC
    • MIT Shotgun S1 IC's and speaker cables
    • PS Audio P3 Power Plant
    • Panasonic 58" plasma - Denon 3805 - PS Audio GCA-250 - Revel Ultima Gems and LE1/Sub15

  9. #9

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    Digital optical only. I haven't changed anything on the DVD player anyways.

    I am officially puzzled on this one.

  10. #10
    Old Polk
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    Sounds like an input issue in the AVR config. It uses it's own test frequencies from firmware in the unit for calibration--which works fine. Then, falls flat with external input.

    Good luck, Shelby. Let us know what you discover.
    • Innersound Eros MK III hybrid ESL - Innersound Bass/Active Crossover amp - Sanders Sound ESL amp
    • SVS PB12-Ultra/2 sub
    • PS Audio GCP-200 preamp w/external PS
    • Bluenote Bellavista table w/Sig.5 arm and Dynavector 20-x - The Clamp - PS Audio GCPH
    • Wadia 301 CD transport - Schiit Gungnir DAC
    • MIT Shotgun S1 IC's and speaker cables
    • PS Audio P3 Power Plant
    • Panasonic 58" plasma - Denon 3805 - PS Audio GCA-250 - Revel Ultima Gems and LE1/Sub15

  11. #11

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    Does the AVR have input level adjustment?
    I smell ass, burning ass, glowing cherry red spanked ass.

    RT1

  12. #12

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    Quote Originally Posted by amulford
    Does the AVR have input level adjustment?
    I'm not sure, but I don't think so.

  13. #13

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    Midnight mode off? :)

  14. #14

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    Quote Originally Posted by MikeC78
    Midnight mode off? :)
    Shoot, I hadn't even thought of that. Now I can't wait to get home and try.

  15. #15

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    Quote Originally Posted by Shizelbs
    Shoot, I hadn't even thought of that. Now I can't wait to get home and try.

    ROFLMAO!!!:D :D Are you serious!??!?!?! :D :p

    **** man, I was only kidding.... I figured you did that already!!;)

    Mike

  16. #16

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    Since you got a new AVR, I'm sure you'll be recalibrating everything. Here's the common errors to go by...

    In The AVR or Pre/Pro:

    1.) All speakers set to small.

    2.) Crossover set to 80 Hz.

    3.) Subwoofer set to on/yes.

    4.) "LFE + Mains" or any other channel remix options set to off/no.

    5.) Dolby Dynamic Range Compression (DRC) aka Midnight Mode circuit set to off/no.

    6.) LFE Channel (the ".1" in 5.1) is enabled (Pioneer MCACC). This is not the subwoofer channel.

    7.) LFE channel level is set to maximum (i.e., unattenuated) value.

    8.) THX (or any other) bass limiter circuit set to off/no.

    9.) Subwoofer pre-out level to -5 (on a scale of -10 to +10).

    10.) THX Ultra 2 Boundary Gain Compensation is set to off/no.

    11.) Standing Wave (Pioneer Advanced MCACC) feature is set to off/no.

    In The DVD Player:

    1.) Output set to bitstream (digital output via the digital coax or toslink) and PCM is not enabled. The AVR should be seeing a full DD/DTS signal.

    2.) Dolby DRC (aka Midnight Mode) circuit set to off/no.

    At The Subwoofer:

    1.) All ports open (if sub is variable tune) — you can retune lower later-on if needed.

    2.) Match tune switch to port configuration (if sub is variable tune).

    3.) Set low pass filter switch to "disable".

    4.) Set the phase control to 0 degrees


    Mike

  17. #17

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    Shizelbs,

    I'm very anxious to hear if you got your sub back??:) Please let us know the outcome.

    BTW, what model elite do you have? I have last years model VSX-74TXVi, and simply love it.:)

    Mike
    Last edited by MikeC78; 11-10-2006 at 07:13 PM.

  18. #18

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    Default

    i lost a lot of bass too when i changed to a denon avr and used the subout rather than wiring my speakers via the outputs on the sub. i have to turn it up like twice as much now to get the same bass but its too much hassle to fix for my needs. try not using the sub out?

  19. #19

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    Quote Originally Posted by MikeC78
    Shizelbs,

    I'm very anxious to hear if you got your sub back??:) Please let us know the outcome.

    BTW, what model elite do you have? I have last years model VSX-74TXVi, and simply love it.:)

    Mike
    Still at work. Its the VSX-45TX.

  20. #20

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    Okay, so I ran the Darla scene from Finding Nemo and it appears the bass is back. Here is what I did;

    Midnight mode was already off. (Didn't even know about that until today anyways)
    Turned the Bass Peak to off
    Changed the crossover to 100hz (just in case)
    Turned off the dynamic range.

    So, yeah, it pays to read the manual. Thanks for the help.

  21. #21

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    :) Shizelbs,

    Glad to hear you got the bass going again. Enjoy your new receiver!

    I remember when I first connected mine, I had bass issues also. There are so many features on the Elites I was overwelmed until I studied the manual for hours! Seems like the Elites come preset from the factory with bass management crap turned on for some reason?

    Mike

  22. #22

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    Thats exactly it. The Onkyo was very simple, plug and play. So long as you had everything connected properly, it would work. This Elite has sooo many options for tweaking. I mean, its cool, I like it, but I thought this bass management was a bit much. I guess I'm old school; if I want more or less bass, I'll adjust the gain myself. Problem solved, you know. Fortunatly for Pioneer, it all sounds wonderful and I can't really get mad at them.

    Thanks again!

  23. #23

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    WTG! keep the bass pumping!!! :)

  24. #24

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    ..And there was much rejoicing!:p
    Sharp Elite 70
    Anthem D2V 3D
    Parasound 5250
    Parasound HCA 1000 A
    Parasound HCA 1000
    Oppo BDP 95
    Von Schweikert VR4 Jr R/L Fronts
    Von Schweikert LCR 4 Center
    Totem Mask Surrounds X4
    Hsu ULS-15 Quad Drive Subwoofers
    Sony PS3
    Squeezebox Touch

    Polk Atrium 7s on the patio just to keep my foot in the door.

  25. #25
    Old Polk
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shizelbs
    Okay, so I ran the Darla scene from Finding Nemo and it appears the bass is back.
    Hehe, that's a great bass test--I love it. My youngest kids are still at the stage of tapping on the glass of the aquarium when I take them to the library on Saturdays. Last Saturday, I asked them if they remembered what it sounded and felt like when we watched Nemo and they both took a couple of steps back. :D

    Glad you're back in business.
    • Innersound Eros MK III hybrid ESL - Innersound Bass/Active Crossover amp - Sanders Sound ESL amp
    • SVS PB12-Ultra/2 sub
    • PS Audio GCP-200 preamp w/external PS
    • Bluenote Bellavista table w/Sig.5 arm and Dynavector 20-x - The Clamp - PS Audio GCPH
    • Wadia 301 CD transport - Schiit Gungnir DAC
    • MIT Shotgun S1 IC's and speaker cables
    • PS Audio P3 Power Plant
    • Panasonic 58" plasma - Denon 3805 - PS Audio GCA-250 - Revel Ultima Gems and LE1/Sub15

  26. #26

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    Back in business, and business is good.

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