Graininess???

[hearingimpared]

When I played music with a female singer, and particularly a female singing in the upper registers, I could hear a "graininess" with the SL3000 that was not present with the RD0198.

Here again I read graininess to describe a high frequency perception. I am familiar with a lot of subjective descriptions of reproduced music's sounds. Musical, harshness, boomy, digital glass breaking, tight, focused, dry, silky, tubey, well defined imaging, wide/deep soundstage etc etc etc. I have been able to label and identify these various sounds with these various descriptions throughout my audiophile career.

I can't for the life of me figure out what "graininess" sounds like.

Can your folks weigh in with your descriptions of graininess please. I am very interested in hearing these.

I have heard many describe Adcom amps as "grainy." Since I own a pair but have never fired them up, I'm also interested to see if I hear this same phenomena of "graininess."

Thanks,
Joe

[Joey_V]

Grain for me has a "shouty feel" or an "added fuzz around the focused image"... hard to explain in words, but easy to show when you're right here with me listening to my system.

[PolkThug]

A moderate texturing of reproduced sound. The sonic equivalent of grain in a photograph. Coarser than dry* but finer than gritty**.

Appendix to the above:

*dry 1) Describing the texture of reproduced sound: very fine-grained, chalky. 2) Describing an acoustical space: deficient in reverberation or having a very short reverberation time. 3) Describing bass quality: lean, overdamped.

**gritty A harsh, coarse-grained texturing of reproduced sound. The continuum of energy seems to be composed of discrete, sharp-edged particles.

Get it?

[Joey_V]

Love it... PT got it.

[hearingimpared]

A moderate texturing of reproduced sound. The sonic equivalent of grain in a photograph. Coarser than dry* but finer than gritty**.

Appendix to the above:

*dry 1) Describing the texture of reproduced sound: very fine-grained, chalky. 2) Describing an acoustical space: deficient in reverberation or having a very short reverberation time. 3) Describing bass quality: lean, overdamped.

**gritty A harsh, coarse-grained texturing of reproduced sound. The continuum of energy seems to be composed of discrete, sharp-edged particles.

Get it?

The spoken word is awesome. . . great stuff you big Thug ya!

[steveinaz]

yes, artificial texturing, or the smearing of a high frequency sound. Cymbals have a bell-like sound; not splashy/fuzzy.

[hearingimpared]

yes, artificial texturing, or the smearing of a high frequency sound. Cymbals have a bell-like sound; not splashy/fuzzy.

Does graininess interfere with or stop the natural decay of let's say steel brushed cymbals? Or maybe tubular bells?

[hearingimpared]

Off topic but another couple of really great subjective descriptions of audio is:

"low noise floor" and "came out of a BLACK backround." I can tell you when those are happening but can't describe them clearly except by using "dead quiet."

[Midnite Mick]

I had a pioneer avr that I just could not stand because of the grainyness.

Mike

[hearingimpared]

I've been hoping that the Musical Concepts upgrades on the Adcom 565s will smooth out that graininess that people talk about when referring to the Adcoms. I have an old Hafler amp that sounded good but kind of dry that I bought the Musical Concepts upgrades for and those upgrades made it sound very sweet. I still have that amp.

[Libertyc]

grainyness = harsh

[hearingimpared]

grainyness = harsh

Are you sure Bill?, I've heard NAD amps matched with the DC Coupled portion of my Spectral preamp and I would describe it as harsh but I don't know based on the previous definitions if I would call it grainy.

[Libertyc]

No not sure but to me, grainy is the opposite of smooth.

[Early B.]

Grainy is when the top end sizzles. There's no definition in cymbals, horns, etc., so it sounds like someone is rubbing medium grit sandpaper on the backside of your blue jeans. Eventually, you feel the pain when the sandpaper goes against the grain of your ass. And that's where the term originated.

(Just thought I'd throw in a little audio trivia for y'all.)

[hearingimpared]

Ha Ha ha. . . that does make sense. Don't tube lovers feel that all solid state equip. has a grainy side?

[PolkThug]

Off topic but another couple of really great subjective descriptions of audio is:

"low noise floor" and "came out of a BLACK backround." I can tell you when those are happening but can't describe them clearly except by using "dead quiet."

Actually, "low noise floor" is the one you can actually measure. Did you know that before you even turn your gear on, your room already has a audible noise floor. And by audible, I mean that a microphone can pick it up (I know some people believe their ears can hear better than a mic, but if you come to my house I can show it).

[hearingimpared]

Actually, "low noise floor" is the one you can actually measure. Did you know that before you even turn your gear on, your room already has a audible noise floor. And by audible, I mean that a microphone can pick it up (I know some people believe their ears can hear better than a mic, but if you come to my house I can show it).

I did not know that the "low noise floor" can refer to room noise. I thought it had more to do with a couple of things; something like the low hum that a transformer can make or how quiet an amplifier can be due to ultra clean AC power.

I do know that room ambience is definetely pickedup better by a mic than our ears. I think this is mainly because we are accoustomed to hearing room ambience and pay no mind to it. But if you place a mic in the mix you are now focusing on what the mic is picking up and you tend to hear it more clearly. . . am I on the right track here???

Heck I think that there are electrical wires running through the wall that are antenas for AC noice and motor noise just from appliances around the house and would imagine that that in itself would be audible.

[PolkThug]

But if you place a mic in the mix you are now focusing on what the mic is picking up and you tend to hear it more clearly. . . am I on the right track here???

Mics can be great tools to work in conjuction with our ears. Sometimes it will just confirm what you already figured out, and other times it will help aid in subwoofer placement, setting crossover points, etc. Dr. Spec got me hooked on real time analysis and it was a fun ride.

[cambir]

dirty high frequency

[markmarc]

grainy= the sound when a station is tuned in just off its ideal position. You hear white noise. Cymbals, flutes lack purity and distinction.

[hearingimpared]

Mics can be great tools to work in conjuction with our ears. Sometimes it will just confirm what you already figured out, and other times it will help aid in subwoofer placement, setting crossover points, etc. Dr. Spec got me hooked on real time analysis and it was a fun ride.

Can you direct me to any websites that will educate me more on what you've written please?

[PolkThug]

Do some googling on "setting crossover point RTA" and the like. (I'm blocked from most audio related sites at work)

[mhardy6647]

Listen to a late-1970's Marantz or Technics receiver and you'll understand "grainy". Especially the latter.

:-)

[hearingimpared]

Listen to a late-1970's Marantz or Technics receiver and you'll understand "grainy". Especially the latter.

:-)

Sure can you get me one?

[mhardy6647]

Sure can you get me one?

I'd be happy to lend you a Technics SA-303 or an SA-500 if you're really interested! In fact, if you're REALLY interested, the SA-500 might be looking for a new home...

http://www.vintagetechnics.com/receivers/sa303.htm
http://www.vintagetechnics.com/receivers/sa500.htm

[hearingimpared]

I'd be happy to lend you a Technics SA-303 or an SA-500 if you're really interested! In fact, if you're REALLY interested, the SA-500 might be looking for a new home...

http://www.vintagetechnics.com/receivers/sa303.htm
http://www.vintagetechnics.com/receivers/sa500.htm

I was just kidding, however, I do love vintage gear even if it is "grainy.":D

[mhardy6647]

mee too... must by I own a few Marantzes and Technicses :-)