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  1. #1

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    Default Monitor 12's (One beer, harsh. Two beer, less harsh. Three beer, better!)

    Ok gents, Needs some help...
    First off, I know i need to get more juice pumped to these (but what i have for now will have to do 80wpc)
    But last night i was feeling like dumping these when i first sat down for a listen! The highs are WAY to bright and the lows seemed to have lost themselves! (first beer) Ok i had some Hendrix on (A merman i shall turn to be) And it wasn't cutting, So i work a little on placement with no help (put them back to were they were) Now my room is 16x16 Carpet covering a cement floor! All walls are concrete with studding and drywall except the wall behind the sytem (long story short, I converted my garage into my living room) So the wall behind the system is the wall where the door used to be! OK phew~! Now that, that's out! Like i was saying High are harsh! I am using a junk jvc CD player coupled to a Yamaha "natural sound" receiver, Plus i have a DBX synthesizer/crossover/bassboost coupled in there as well!
    (second beer)
    Still harsh, so am standing there looking at these beasts and not thinking good thoughts. I Put my hand over the Tweet and it calmed down the harshness, but way too much! So i think i need to baffle these a bit! So i reach down, Peel off my socks and hang one on each speaker right over the tweeter! WOW.... It clicked! Nice and smooth! no more harshness (little loss of some of the crispness, But MUCH better!
    (third beer)
    Now i have some Stone temple Pilots in (core) and it was still pleasing my ears, So i thought FINALLY i have found the ticket...
    (fourth beer)
    Sound is starting to loose it's edge (highs not good enough)
    (fifth beer)
    Socks come off!

    Ok, now that i have bored you!
    Is there a way to "choke" these tweets a little without affecting anything?
    Maybe a "Cap"? Or rework the crossover? Or should i refine my Sock method? lol...

    "Why was it, back in the day. The music counted, Now it's the quality of the sound that counts"?

    Am i getting OLD... :)~
    Last edited by Mother Mooch; 01-05-2007 at 07:41 AM.

  2. #2

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    Go buy a 30 pack for the weekend.:D
    I like speakers that are bigger than a small refrigerator but smaller than a big refrigerator:D

  3. #3

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    more cheese or try dirty socks.

    Please post any nude pics of your speakers. It helps our rhythm.
    Life gets more interesting the more we play.

  4. #4

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    The tweeter in your M12's should be a black model sl2500. There is a newer tweeter available through Polk Audio. Mention that you are a Club Polk member when you call. Schematics are here http://www.polkaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?t=38755

    What's the distance between the rear of your M12's and the wall?

    Junk in = junk out
    Junk in the middle... why ?
    Life gets more interesting the more we play.

  5. #5

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    30 pack already bought... :)

    Socks were dirty (and probably had cheese all over them) lol...


    So polk makes a Tweet that is a little softer?

    My 12's are about 2 feet from the corner and 1 and half feet from the back wall!

    Junk in, Junk out, junk all around except the 12's lol... Money talks and Bs walks But Money is something i do not have.... (the old lady took all that) lol...

  6. #6

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    Can anybody tell me what this "RDE 090 POLYSWITCH" is for?

    And would it hurt too add another 12uf Cap in line?

  7. #7

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    Sorry to say it but junk equipment = harsh, junk results. The most likely problem is the JVC cdp, followed by the Yammy. I know it’s not what you want to hear (sorry for the pun ;) ) but getting a better source will improve the sound a great deal. Also get rid of the signal processor, YUCK. All it does is add more distortion and muck things up. Also I would never try to “patch” a problem by adding electrical components to an already well designed speaker system. Fix the problem at the source (so to speak).

    H9
    "Appreciation of audio is a completely subjective human experience. Measurements can provide a measure of insight, but are no substitute for human judgment. Why are we looking to reduce a subjective experience to objective criteria anyway? The subtleties of music and audio reproduction are for those who appreciate it. Differentiation by numbers is for those who do not".--Nelson Pass

    Pass Aleph 30; Eastern Electric Mini Max; Adcom GDA600; MIT S3/Z Pc; SDA 1C; Squeezebox; Tubes add soul!

  8. #8

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mother Mooch
    Can anybody tell me what this "RDE 090 POLYSWITCH" is for?

    And would it hurt too add another 12uf Cap in line?
    The polyswitch is to protect the tweeter's. It cuts the signal to them if distortion/clipping is present.

    I wouldn't mess with the x-over in the speaker, that's not the problem. It's a combo of source components and probably room acoustics and placement. Systems can be sooooo musch fun sometimes :D
    "Appreciation of audio is a completely subjective human experience. Measurements can provide a measure of insight, but are no substitute for human judgment. Why are we looking to reduce a subjective experience to objective criteria anyway? The subtleties of music and audio reproduction are for those who appreciate it. Differentiation by numbers is for those who do not".--Nelson Pass

    Pass Aleph 30; Eastern Electric Mini Max; Adcom GDA600; MIT S3/Z Pc; SDA 1C; Squeezebox; Tubes add soul!

  9. #9

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    I do agree on not messing with a quality product~!

    Getting rid of the Processor Will be number one!

    Should i EQ?

    I have found out in the last few weeks how much fun this hobby can be...

    So guess my cheapest option right now is "more beer" lol...

    Thanks Gents! :(

  10. #10

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    As usual, H9 is on the money. No to the EQ, get better gear when money permits.
    'Political Correctness'.........defined

    "A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end."

  11. #11

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    Start with a better amp and pre? Then work up to a better cd player?

    So pretty much, A CD player can still sound like **** even though it's digital?

    Boy do i have a lot to learn...

  12. #12

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    I'd start with better source, garbage in, garbage out. You can then work up from there.
    'Political Correctness'.........defined

    "A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end."

  13. #13

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mother Mooch
    So pretty much, A CD player can still sound like **** even though it's digital?
    A CD player can sound like sh$t BECAUSE it is digital and not analog.

    Don't know where you are located, but something like this would definitely be an improvement over your JVC:

    http://seattle.craigslist.org/sno/ele/257800416.html
    Last edited by seo; 01-05-2007 at 05:14 PM.
    Signature goes here

  14. #14
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    SL2500 tweeters just don't sound very good.
    Go buy the replacement silk tweeter from Polk for $48 to replace those OEM screeching-plastic-dome-demons-from-hell.

  15. #15

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    dude... I have been down this road before. This forum is like the Hotel California.

    Before you empty your wallet on a bunch of upgrades, know that you are going down a path of never ending improvements. I have speakers and gear up the wazoo in my basement and I'm still upgrading.

    If you have a limited budget - be pragmatic. Improvements are not proportional to how much you spend on them. Moreover, its an exponential curve. From where you are, you can make massive gains with modest money, but then after that your gains will become harder to come by.

    So enough with the philosphizing. Here is my suggestion:
    #1 - replace the source and amp. On the cheap, you can get a Toshiba 3950/60 ($40-50) and modify it ($40-60) (since you seem to be into mods). Just google around and you will find many sources for the svenson and vinnie mods. For the amp, people have reported excellent results with the Sonic Impact T-Amps ($35). Try em, its a really cheap experiment.
    #2 - do upgrade those tweeters. You have two routes. You can either get the new Polk replacements (best) ($100) or a more economical route would be to watch on fleabay for the Peerless tweeters used ( $50-60)in some old Polk's. The peerless might not be a drop in replacement, but I have done the mod successfully with excellent results on a Monitor 5.
    #3 - Cables do matter. Your interconnects and speaker cables can make a huge difference in the sound. Some of the premium cables from Monorpice for the interconnects, and their 12AWG speaker wire are good bets. ($30)

    With all of the above recommendations, you will get by in under $200. Or you can budget $500 and make some more significant (but not much better sounding) upgrades. Choices, choices.

  16. #16

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    #1 - replace the source and amp. On the cheap, you can get a Toshiba 3950/60 ($40-50) and modify it ($40-60) (since you seem to be into mods). Just google around and you will find many sources for the svenson and vinnie mods. For the amp, people have reported excellent results with the Sonic Impact T-Amps ($35). Try em, its a really cheap experiment.
    Both of those products are a total waste of money as too many folks have found out. You can't make a silk purse out of a sow's ear.
    'Political Correctness'.........defined

    "A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end."

  17. #17

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    from what I have read here and in other places.....I must agree with F1

    If your going to upgrade, do it one at a time, and get a quality unit to start with....don`t get something based on just price.....

    IMHO, of course

  18. #18

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    The Toshiba was a decent "budget" DVD player. NOTHING MORE. I bought one wanting to see the giant killer low dollar player that was getting all the hype. I ended up giving it to my parents. The only thing that I found to be true in all the hype I read was that it was cheap. Which it was.
    "Just because you’re offended doesn’t mean you’re right." - Ricky Gervais

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    "Consistency requires you to be as ignorant today as you were a year ago." - Bernard Berenson

  19. #19

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    Buy more beer!:D
    Carl

  20. #20

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    This guy is using socks and beer to get his upgrades on. I'm sure proposing multi hundred $ upgrades constitutes real pragmatic advice. Rock on!

    doro made a good point recently - anybody coming to this forum for advice basically gets the same bland answers.

    What we seem to be forgetting is that this is a journey and we must start somewhere. I started on Polks with R15's and a pioneer receiver, which I thought were fantastic at the time. I'm now on LSi9's, Rotel amplification, tube pre, Parasound DAC etc. My journey is not over, but I have enjoyed the affordable steps along the way, and the steps made me appreciate the subtle improvements.

  21. #21

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    and that`s what we have been suggesting

    and also suggesting to enjoy each step along the journey..

    may sound bland to you, but it`s still sound advise

  22. #22

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    My advice on the 3960 is based on actually owning this piece of equipment. Its just a couple notches below my Parasound DAC2000.

    Either your mods were not done right, or not done at all. In stock form, there is nothing special about the 3960, but a well modded unit is fantastic bang for the buck.

    But I suppose traditional logic of a $200+ source is safe. Bland but safe :)

  23. #23

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    Quote Originally Posted by anonymouse
    doro made a good point recently - anybody coming to this forum for advice basically gets the same bland answers.
    He asked the question and I gave him the best most practical advice I could give. I didn't say go out and spend $2000 on new equipment. Sometimes the truth hurts. I would start with trying to find a better source (used) you can get a lot bang for your buck. Tweets would be the next step. Just because we suggest it doesn't mean he (or she) has to follow the advice.

    I'm not going to "dumb" down my advice which is based on my own personal experience just because someon might not want to follow it. It is what it is........
    Last edited by heiney9; 01-07-2007 at 12:50 AM.
    "Appreciation of audio is a completely subjective human experience. Measurements can provide a measure of insight, but are no substitute for human judgment. Why are we looking to reduce a subjective experience to objective criteria anyway? The subtleties of music and audio reproduction are for those who appreciate it. Differentiation by numbers is for those who do not".--Nelson Pass

    Pass Aleph 30; Eastern Electric Mini Max; Adcom GDA600; MIT S3/Z Pc; SDA 1C; Squeezebox; Tubes add soul!

  24. #24

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    Quote Originally Posted by anonymouse
    I started on Polks with R15's and a pioneer receiver, which I thought were fantastic at the time.
    That's the difference you thought they sounded great, he doesn't think his system sounds so great. The speakers are not the problem. He's been presented with some good advice now it's up to him to decide how he want's to proceed.
    "Appreciation of audio is a completely subjective human experience. Measurements can provide a measure of insight, but are no substitute for human judgment. Why are we looking to reduce a subjective experience to objective criteria anyway? The subtleties of music and audio reproduction are for those who appreciate it. Differentiation by numbers is for those who do not".--Nelson Pass

    Pass Aleph 30; Eastern Electric Mini Max; Adcom GDA600; MIT S3/Z Pc; SDA 1C; Squeezebox; Tubes add soul!

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    No one is forgetting the journey, but taking a step sideways isn't helping anyone along the path to greater enjoyment of the music. Besides, no one told him to buy a $5K CDP, just suggested that he consider upgrading from his JVC. That is good, sound advice.

    Bland answers? Good point? You've got to be pretty lost if you believe either.

    Either your mods were not done right, or not done at all. In stock form, there is nothing special about the 3960, but a well modded unit is fantastic bang for the buck.
    I'll have to strongly disagree.

    But I suppose traditional logic of a $200+ source is safe. Bland but safe
    What traditional logic? The only person here popping numbers is you. The rest of us are making suggestions without dollar figures attached. However, since you brought it up, there is a good reason why better gear costs more and there's nothing bland about it.
    'Political Correctness'.........defined

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  26. #26

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    Well F1, you have a reputation for being opinionated. I like that. I'm opinionated too. So you believe what you want to believe, and I'll believe the truth :)

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    Quote Originally Posted by anonymouse
    Well F1, you have a reputation for being opinionated. I like that. I'm opinionated too. So you believe what you want to believe, and I'll believe the truth :)
    So you admit your opininated yet your opinion is somehow truth and the rest of our's isn't? Interesting
    "Appreciation of audio is a completely subjective human experience. Measurements can provide a measure of insight, but are no substitute for human judgment. Why are we looking to reduce a subjective experience to objective criteria anyway? The subtleties of music and audio reproduction are for those who appreciate it. Differentiation by numbers is for those who do not".--Nelson Pass

    Pass Aleph 30; Eastern Electric Mini Max; Adcom GDA600; MIT S3/Z Pc; SDA 1C; Squeezebox; Tubes add soul!

  28. #28

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    You can't handle the truth!!! :)



    Forgot to add a smiley...
    Last edited by F1nut; 01-07-2007 at 01:04 AM.
    'Political Correctness'.........defined

    "A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end."

  29. #29

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    Jeez guys...lighten up. You take me far too seriously. Frankly, if he (or you) does not care for my opinion, thats fine. Perhaps the smiley above was lost on both of you?

  30. #30

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    Quote Originally Posted by anonymouse
    Jeez guys...lighten up. You take me far too seriously. Frankly, if he (or you) does not care for my opinion, thats fine. Perhaps the smiley above was lost on both of you?
    Yeah it did and, I wasn't trying to be so heavy handed, just in discussion mode and, I didn't add a smiley when perhaps I should have. :)
    "Appreciation of audio is a completely subjective human experience. Measurements can provide a measure of insight, but are no substitute for human judgment. Why are we looking to reduce a subjective experience to objective criteria anyway? The subtleties of music and audio reproduction are for those who appreciate it. Differentiation by numbers is for those who do not".--Nelson Pass

    Pass Aleph 30; Eastern Electric Mini Max; Adcom GDA600; MIT S3/Z Pc; SDA 1C; Squeezebox; Tubes add soul!

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