Xbox 360 v2

[Shizelbs]

Highlights of the article:

HDMI outputing 1080p
120gb harddrive
New and improved processor

http://www.engadget.com/2007/01/05/t...dename-zephyr/

Ever wonder why Microsoft hasn't released an HDMI cable for the Xbox 360, or whether the AV port was really capable of digital out? Well, here's your answer: we landed pictures of what appears to be the second Xbox 360 -- the Xbox 360 v2, if you will -- codenamed Zephyr. (The original Xbox 360, if you recall, was codenamed Xenon.) The long rumored about and awaited update to the console won't just feature a new, cooler 65nm processor, it's also finally added an HDMI port for full digital 1080p pleasure, as well as a 120GB drive, just what the doctor ordered. The 120GB drive may or may not come bundled with the kit, we don't yet know, just as we also don't yet know how much a Zephyr 360 is going to run (we imagine it'll go for the same price as currently so they can keep up a little on their expanding margin). But our very kind Xbox insider seemed happy to let us know we'd be able to get them "soon."

[jdhdiggs]

Nice zing at the sony fanboys by microsoft.

"Yeah, well Xbox only has a puny 20 GB HD and doesn't have HDMI..."

If they price it a hundred or two below the PS3, they should win this round (especially if the drive becomes HD-DVD compatable) of the console wars.

[Gaara]

I've been waiting for the 65nm processor, the other stuff is a added bonus. If they price it higher though my wait might be for naught, as I don't need a larger Harddrive, and don't see a benefit if HDMI with my XBR960. If it is the same price I will be impressed.

Jared

[Lsi9]

whats the upgrade regarding the new processor? better framerate?

[BIZILL]

dunno, but supposedly runs cooler.

been reading up on this. seems consumers initially are split 75/25%. the 75% of posters posting are bitching and complaining about being early adopters and being left out to dry for the early investment. especially folks such as myself who just bought mine a little over a month ago. had it been known, then i would have waited for this one. but now that i have mine, i can't go on without it. i am not angry, as i don't have hdmi anything. not tv, nor receiver. but many do. but it's sort of like when the ds was 'upgraded' to the ds lite. the industry keeps upgrading. it's just the nature of the beast.

[cheddar]

Way to confuse the console market. Don't see any advantage whatsoever to introducing different capabilities into a console unless they are 100% backwards compatible with the previous version. And if they are 100% compatible, then what's the advantage to the framerate or processor power as you can't push the envelope without making all owners of the old version pi$$ed off.

Out two years and microsoft has to release a 'service pack' update to make up for all the omissions in the earlier console? I just bought my 360 and they're telling me it's already obsolete?

Lol - typical M$ screwing around making all the current owners pony up more dough just so they can stay current.

[BIZILL]

appeasing the hdmi market. needed, but i can't say if this would be considered too early, or too late.

[tommyboy]

This isn't the first time this has happened. Sony has done it with modifications with the ps1/ps2. Nintendo came out with the gba sp and Ds lite (and lets not forget the n64 expansion pack). But this is by far the biggest "upgrade" for a system. I guess microsoft is really taking nintendo and sony as a big threat.

[cheddar]

Evidently the hdmi problem is a basic problem with the hardware in the 6 million or so consoles already out there or the millions more that they hope to sell before v2 comes out.

Otherwise it seems more prudent to just sell an outboard box with a high quality hd-dvd player built in. That could at least keep the installed base happy.

I can see it now, millions of microsoft fanboys stewing in being short changed for buying the console within two years of launch.

PS3's wait to include everything in the first package seems more clever all the time. Stupid M$.

[scottvamp]

XBox fans have to by another new and improved unit in a year of release, and the PS3 is just too expensive. When from the get go the Blu-Ray justified the unit alone. But that is a different story now that Blu-Ray isn't a failure. aka beta max, oh wait that was just three months ago.......

[cheddar]

Lol, yeah, M$ hasn't figured out that hardware shortcomings can't be fixed with a new monthly security update...

...they should at least offer upgraded hard drives and anything else the dino 360 can still use at a loss for all previous 360 owners. Otherwise there's a lot of goodwill out there that's about to disappear...

Well, now that I'm locked in with my dino 360, it's a no brainer which console I'm building my multimedia hub around. Can't wait to score a ps3 at retail...:D.

[scottvamp]

I might pick up a unit this weekend. I have money and its burning!!!:D

[Demiurge]

XBox fans have to by another new and improved unit in a year of release, and the PS3 is just too expensive. When from the get go the Blu-Ray justified the unit alone. But that is a different story now that Blu-Ray isn't a failure. aka beta max, oh wait that was just three months ago.......

You're claiming the success of a DVD format after a few months? Interesting.

BTW -- I don't own the HD-DVD player for the XBox 360 because there is no damn point to invest money in either format of DVDs right now since one will fail over time in the mass market. That is of course unless you just want to burn the money on a possible dead format because it's no big deal to your wallet.

I bought the XBox 360 to play games -- not to watch movies.

Isn't it always amazing how much you bash the XBox 360 and we hardly see anyone going out of their way to bash the PS3? The only quip I have ever had with Sony is their price point from a purely business and marketing standpoint (personal opinion). Somehow every little thing you think you can throw at Microsoft is somehow justified. It's just annoying. It just proves what a fan boy you are, and it comes off no differently than the 10 year olds writing negative reviews at amazon.com.

[scottvamp]

Quiet the opposite, i claimed Blu-Ray a successful format from the get go.
Me and Cheddar defending the PS3 and whatnot, is nothing compared to the ongoing PS3 and Blu-Ray bashing months ago, that i constantly pointed out.
I have nothing against Microsoft or anyother game system. I know i hurts when people or wrong, just take it like a man.

[AsSiMiLaTeD]

Some people are funny.

Microsoft releases the 360. It's cool, people buy it, all is well.

Microsoft then releases a newer version V2 of the 360, and now everyone's pissed and think they're getting ripped off. I just don't get it.

Do you get pissed off when you buy the latest and greatest CPU, and then something comes out a week later that's faster and costs the same price?

How about when you buy a DVD player and then the newer model is released two months later with more features but costs the same price?

What about cars? I paid 35k for my 4Runner in 2004, now I can get a 2007 that has upgrades over my 2004 even though it's the same trim.

This stuff happens all the time, with virtually every product that's out there. If you're going to be an early adopter of a product, then you go into that decision with the knowledge that part of the price you'll pay for having the newest stuff is that it may either have problems or something that's better will come out for less money a year or two down the road.

How do you think all those people that paid $999 for a BluRay player are going to feel a year or two from now when they're readily available for $200 - and they're probably be better quality because they'll have all the kinks worked out.

That's just part of the game. Either accept it, or live with buying stuff that's a few years old and already proven. Go grab yourself and original XBOX...

[Shizelbs]

Right on Polkmaniac.

I mean really, should Microsoft not release an improved version just to satisfy some people's principles?

[scottvamp]

Works for me, i been holding out. But 120g that i will only need for a memory card seems huge. I really think that a few people that purchased the unit recently would be at least little ticked. Should come with the HD DVD though.... Not sure an automoble and expensive game system is really the same level. I think many new model cars are not much improved, sometimes worse off.....

[BIZILL]

i'm personally not 'ticked'. a bit disappointed (big difference). with cars it's a given and common knowledge that next year's version will be different and upgraded/better. i suppose any item that wishes to sell for profit must be re-invented to keep consumer demand in regard. if this as of now 'rumor' plays true, then good for m$ for listening to the consumer. i just hope they remember the previous purchases and purchasers and offer up some sort of added dongle for hdmi. that will appease early adopters.

as far as a 120gb hard drive, that would be nice to have available as well, for both current and future units. i have only downloaded a few items on LIVE, but if the high def content becomes better suited to my tastes, i.e. movies, then 20gigs will fill up too fast. even 120 may be too little for some. we'll have to wait and see...

i DO have the hd dvd add-on. but i'm having lip synch issues with it and it is probably going back to circuit city tomorrow. m$ knows about the issue, but they have yet to announce a fix. same with the 'undynamic' sound that passes through via toslink. i feel they will rectify the situation there, but just in case it's half-assed, i'm gonna wait and see before i re-purchase it. if they don't fix it, then i may buy the toshiba or wait a bit longer for a dual format hd dvd and blu-ray player. CES starts monday, yes? i think many answers will come for many enthusiasts. i will have a better foundation with which to base my decisions upon then.

[Demiurge]

Quiet the opposite, i claimed Blu-Ray a successful format from the get go.
Me and Cheddar defending the PS3 and whatnot, is nothing compared to the ongoing PS3 and Blu-Ray bashing months ago, that i constantly pointed out.
I have nothing against Microsoft or anyother game system. I know i hurts when people or wrong, just take it like a man.

What are you talking about? I'm being serious here. What have I been wrong about? There's a whole forum worth of posts I have made here that you can go ahead and quote from if you'd like.

[PolkWannabie]

I know i hurts when people or wrong, just take it like a man.

... LOL ...

[scottvamp]

Demiurge, its all good my man. I wasn't referring directly to ya.
Left hand..................................a hug
Right hand.................................a blue chill pill
Play some XBox, have a drink, watch Art Mann presents in DiscoveryHD like i just did.
PS3 is not the antichrist, thats for Cradle of Filth to figure out.:D ;)

[Refefer]

Let's clarify some things: Microsoft will NOT allow the making of games that are incompatible with Version 1 of the system. Everyone knows how bad of a move that would be, considering how Sony and N64's attempts of it ended fairly poorly.

Two, the processor will in all likelihood not run faster in games... with the exception of 1080p. It's gonna need all the juice it can get for that, and it would be dumb not to. The advantage of the smaller cpu is quite simple: Cooling... and that makes microsoft happy since they won't need to spend cash on better, more durable cooling systems, making the entire package cheaper.

If the cpu is to be utilized with in games, the only place I see it being implemented is in the use of backend: get the voice communication sounding a little better, run as a server a bit more efficiently, etc.

As for the hard drive, I doubt they will make or lose money by it's addition. No one on this planet make 20 gb hds anymore, there's no point. The cost of upgrading to 120 gb hd is probably negligible compared to the cost of producing smaller hard drives.

Hell, my flash drive is nearly that big.

[Shizelbs]

All great points by Refefer

[Lsi9]

well bottomline is my 360 works fine and is fun to play it has 20gb but then again I don't need more, should I need more then I am playing way too much and better off selling it. HDMI is nice but the PQ won't really be better, My tv upconverts 1080i to 1080p and does not accept a 1080p input so the 1080p upgrade regarding the processor is useless. The HD-DVD capability would be a nice novelty but then again I 'd rather have a stand alone universal player without having to turn my xbox on everytime I want to watch a movie.

[cheddar]

Yep, I think that is the bottom line. The only clear reason to get a 360 is as a gaming machine. I was happy with that decision. But it still stings that I thought I'd bought the best that M$ had to offer a month ago and would have waited if I'd known. You expect a console that costs $400 to last at least 3 years or so before they start messing with it. And it didn't last even one before they did a major redesign (although not yet ready for release). That's why I think there's some goodwill that's going to be lost.

Including 1080p via hdmi only muddies the water for those scratching their heads wondering if they should wait for v2. That means lost sales in the short term if this information ever gets a wide audience. And there will be confusion as people wonder what the real difference is. All at a time when ps3 sales production will be gearing up and availability finally meeting demand. Not good timing to say the least.

Although Refefer's explanation is good, few joe gamers are going to pick apart the details. They'll just know there's a new 360 and a dino 360. And many of those stuck with the dino 360 will wonder if they got screwed buying in the first year.

So yeah, it's a good gaming machine. But this just isn't the decision you expect them to make within a year of launch unless their research shows that there are a lot of people out there that want 1080p via hdmi and probably hd-dvd as well. And their hacked together hd-dvd add-on just wasn't filling the void well enough on its own (regardless of forum reports of good PQ).

So I completely agree with everyone that the dino 360 is still a great gaming machine. But you have to admit that it throws a big wrinkle into how the dino 360 stacked up against the ps3 even internally at M$ and how confident that they were that the dino 360 could compete well against the ps3.

I don't say this just to bash M$. I actually find this stuff really interesting. How companies are rewriting the console landscape as they try and compete on far more than just the gaming level.

[Lsi9]

if the new 360 was more expensive would that make you feel better about your recent purchase of the "dino" 360?

If it is the same price then I agree with you I would be pissed if I just purchased it.

[cheddar]

Well, the article hinted that it would be the same price. Sure, the more expensive the new version is, the less I would be pissed. But why would they just play into sony's hands? You can already just drop in a generic 2.5" laptop drive into a ps3. So you can have a 200GB drive in the ps3 if you want to when they're released. But because of the proprietary drive in the 360, you're stuck paying whatever M$ wants you to fork over if they upgrade again. What's the point of all this incremental keeping up with sony if you can't at least win on price?

Like I said, it just muddies the reason to get a 360 and risks making the faithful think twice before investing in a first release from M$ again.

[krabby5]

I don't get it...Was Microsoft supposed to tell everyone that a newer version was coming out in a few months?

Guess how many 360's would have been sold in that time...10?

It's business...look at Apple and the Ipod...You might have bought a 60gb model and a week later you could have gotten an 80gb for the same price...they have like 8 generations of upgrades..

This kind of stuff happens ALL the time with electronics and computers..

This is the main reason why I don't buy videogame consoles right away

[goingganzo]

i just hope they have a hmdi plug in for the back soon for the v1

[jdhdiggs]

i just hope they have a hmdi plug in for the back soon for the v1

From my understanding, that is impossible with the way the signal paths for audio and video are seup up in Rev 1.

I do think that Consoles are going to start doing more and more of these incremental upgrades and eventually evolve into cheap gaming computers.

I mean, anyone expecting a system to stack up with one released a year later is on some really good drugs. M$ needed to do something to hit the PS3. They could really do well also adding the wireless and HD-DVD into the V2. Otherwise, they'd be wise to take the Wii direction and go cheap.

For all those who asked:

Smaller critical dimensions on processors allow for more chips per wafer, more chips in the sweet spot, higher yield including gross defects all allowing the chips to be mad much cheaper. The voltage needed on the chip is less, so the chip itself consumes less power. HOWEVER, the power density tends to go up which can cause other cooling issues, but the overall heat is less. So basically, the smaller chips reduce price, increase supply, and changes cooling requirements. Unless they change some other things on the boards controlling the chips, they shouldn't run any faster although that is a possibility.