RTi12 "review"

[bob1029]

I finally got it all hooked up and have had some time to mess around with a few configurations. My current setup is as follows:

Fxi5, CSi5, RTi12 (top) powered by onkyo 901
RTi12 (bottom) powered by behringer ep2500

I have the reciever taking the signal via 6 analog rca inputs from a b-enspirer sound card in my computer. The reason behind this is the spdif interfaces on the onkyo only support 96/24, while the sound card is capable of outputting 192/24 down the analog (I realize there are few sources that are encoded at such a rate, but I like big numbers). I tried it both ways and the analog sounds better than the digital. Also my reciever has an odd ticking-static-beep noise when it is decoding a dts/dd signal.

After a few "crank it up real loud" sessions, I finally settled in on a decent movie... War of the Worlds. Morgan Freeman's intro dialog was RAZOR sharp. I was almost certain he was hiding under my table. Once he started talking I stopped tweaking the volume and just sat there. It was set at ~-4dB on my reciever. The volume level seemed to be normal, even at such a high setting. After about 12 minutes into the movie I rediscovered the concept of dynamic range. The RTi12s created an extremely visceral and amazingly accurate representation of the lightning. The growth of power between the first and last lightning bolt was astonishing. It was almost as if my house was being assaulted by the storm.

So at this point I was thinking "wow that was totally worth the investment." I didnt realize there was more to be had... The scene where they get in the van and start driving off came up and completely demolished my highest expectations. When the tripod started to blow away the bridge, my brain was saying "please turn it down", but I just couldnt move. For the next minute I couldnt move. I just looked around wondering if I had heard everything correctly. I played it again to make sure, and there it was, exactly as I thought I heard it.

I fear im probably going to start rambling incoherently, so I will stop here. Needless to say, if you can afford these speakers, a decent amp, and enjoy movies, there is NO excuse for not buying them. Also to anyone who says they arent "good for music", please tell me what kind of music you are listening to, because the Eagles HFO Dts was amazing. :D

BTW, I plan on constructing a sonotube-based subwoofer in the near future to round out the experience. Anyone who has any thoughts about these projects, please feel free to contact me with suggestions.

[dane_peterson]

Well articulated review. I look forward to the day I can crank my system to that level without pissing off either the wife or my neighbors. ;)

[Midnite Mick]

I would love to hear the RTi 12's in a home theatre experience.

My 2 channel is really coming around but I can't say I am all that crazy about the home theatre aspect of what I have.

Thanks,
Mike

[Holydoc]

I finally got it all hooked up and have had some time to mess around with a few configurations. My current setup is as follows:

Fxi5, CSi5, RTi12 (top) powered by onkyo 901
RTi12 (bottom) powered by behringer ep2500

Dang Bob. If you have a 50" Panasonic TV too, I am going to check my spare bedrooms to see if you are claiming my system for yours. :D

Glad you are enjoying it. This combination of speakers definitely makes a rocking HT experience. Now get yourself a big sub.

[bob1029]

Dang Bob. If you have a 50" Panasonic TV too, I am going to check my spare bedrooms to see if you are claiming my system for yours. :D

Glad you are enjoying it. This combination of speakers definitely makes a rocking HT experience. Now get yourself a big sub.

lol... Its always a good sign when someone else has the same audio setup you do. ;)

Im seriously considering putting a tc1000 15" subwoofer in a 24" 400L sonotube enclosure and tuning it to 10hz

[Ron Temple]

Watching WOTW w/o sub 20hz capability isn't doing it justice. Try it again at -4 with a sub that can get down there, then write a review. Congrats on the 12s. I'm sure powered by the Behringer they do pretty well to around 30hz (not a knock), just that WOTW has a ton of content from 10hz up.

[bob1029]

Watching WOTW w/o sub 20hz capability isn't doing it justice. Try it again at -4 with a sub that can get down there, then write a review. Congrats on the 12s. I'm sure powered by the Behringer they do pretty well to around 30hz (not a knock), just that WOTW has a ton of content from 10hz up.

Yeah I agree... thats why im planning on a 400 liter subwoofer :)

[Sherardp]

-4db, my ears wont take it, the loudest I watch wotw was around -16 from reference and my framed posters were falling off the wall in my office two rooms over from my system. Hey bob, nice review on the 12s, Im enjoying mine also. Have fun with that massive sub youre planning.

[cfrizz]

Great review! Congrats & enjoy your system.

[Mike Reeter]

Very good write-up...we have had the RTi12's in our HT rig for about 3 years.

I am still impressed with their performance every time I fire em up.

[liordra]

... it will get better, the speakers are not broken in yet..

nice review.

[bob1029]

... it will get better, the speakers are not broken in yet..

nice review.

they need to break-in? how long does this take...

[ohskigod]

depends on usage, its hard to say. dont lose sleep or think about it too much, if the sound improves, then enjoy it :D

the "break in" part is just the drivers loosening up a bit, thus they will open up a skosh, its not earth shattering, but over time, you might notice it.

[VXR8]

they need to break-in? how long does this take...

Hi Bob,

Congrats on the system! As for "break in", I understand it to be about 20 hours of music, not HT. When I got my RTi10s and the SurroundBAR (on different systems), I just played music through them for around this period. My 10s impress me, so the 12s must be awesome .

I'm going to give my 10s a treat and give them more power via a Rotel RMB1095 multi channel amp at 200 watts @ 8 ohms - then I can break them in again :D

Cheers.

[C J T]

Hi Bob

I have the Behringer Ep2500 and the RTI12's as well. I would like to know why it is better you biamped them instead of running the RTI12's at full power, straps on?

Can anybody else answer this? The Behringer has tons of power and I don't understand this biamping as the internal crossover of the speaker defeats the advantage. Am I wrong?

Thanks!

[bob1029]

Hi Bob

I have the Behringer Ep2500 and the RTI12's as well. I would like to know why it is better you biamped them instead of running the RTI12's at full power, straps on?

Can anybody else answer this? The Behringer has tons of power and I don't understand this biamping as the internal crossover of the speaker defeats the advantage. Am I wrong?

Thanks!

The reason being is that the ep2500 (as far as i know) is designed to put out alot of raw power for low end sound performance. The nr901 being a class A/B reciever has much better transient response in the upper kilohert ranges. Also, I find that when the bass hits hard, and only one amp is being used in full range mode, the upper registers tend to suffer distortion and clipping depending on how the system is equalized and driven. With one amp driving the top independent of the bottom, I can get crystal clear highs along with the powerful bass. The internal crossover only works on the "upper" section of the speaker afaik. That is why there are gold plates connecting the two sets of posts. Hook the reciever up to the top section, ep2500 to the bottom.

[C J T]

Thanks BOb

I have the Denon 3805 AVR. Is it better to run the RTI 12's top end on that? I still don't understand the crossover, and running them at "small" and the benefits of just powering the woofers with the Behringer. If the speakers are set to small, how does this benefit my set up? but maybe you can explain a little more for me. And wouldn't leaving the power of the Denon to the centre and rears be better than adding the RTI12's into the mix? Thanks!! .

Do you notice a little slight hum or buzz in the RTI 12's with the Behringer. I do..from about 2-3 feet away.

[frodaddy]

... The scene where they get in the van and start driving off came up and completely demolished my highest expectations. When the tripod started to blow away the bridge, my brain was saying "please turn it down", but I just couldnt move. For the next minute I couldnt move. I just looked around wondering if I had heard everything correctly. I played it again to make sure, and there it was, exactly as I thought I heard it....

This is my favorite demo scene hands down. Another one of my favorite scenes to demo imaging and surround sound is later in the movie with the jet flyover. It's the scene when the family is approaching the hillside battle between the military and the tripods.

Congrats on your purchase

[C J T]

Can somebody please answer my question???

Bi amp the Behringer EP2500 with a Denn 3805 AVR and RTI 12's?

I tried it. Seems the Behringer is not even on and wasting energy and money and taking energy from the Denon.

Please experts here? Not just BOb? Biamp or not???

[cfrizz]

CJT, most people around here consider biamping a waste of time, & your own ears just confirmed it. So just do a staight amp of the 12's & enjoy.

[reeltrouble1]

I have had some enjoyable bi-amp experiences in the past. try it out.

please note they were bi-amp experiences you dirty birds.

CJT honestly, rather than give you theory, if want to try it just do and give it your evaluation with your ears.

Dont go spending a bunch on wire, you can get four conductor wire for little dough.

RT1

[surfntomm]

if you are biamping and you say that your behringer is on it is either,

a) not plugged into the preouts of your receiver
b) im assuming the jumpers are off the speaker binding posts because you would be posting a lot more if they werent seeking help
c) the levels of the denon's amp and the behringer are not matched so the denon is much louder thant he behringer with your setup, you should be able to easily fix the levels to get sounding nice.
d) although they say biamping is not great, that is because those people can probably afford a monstrous power amp of good quality. im sure it will sound fine if you already have the behringer.

if you want to be done with it just get yourself an adcom gfa 555 or something of the sort....cheapest way to respectable 200 w/ch of true power.

i upgraded from pro amplifier to a rotel rb-980bx and at first i thought there was no difference, but after like 5 minutes of listening to my lsi 7's i was all smiles. im removing the psw650 out of my rig because the new amp has so much more lower end definition its amazing. a lot more synergy between the right and left, i guess that would be called imaging. either way if you are not too happy, for not much you can be done with it if you just get an older quality power amp to run the entire speaker and leave bi amping behind.

[C J T]

Thanks guys for the responses.

The Behringer is on. I just don't understand why i should not run the speakers full range, jumpers on, as apposed to jumpers off, Behringer on the lows. i see so many different opinions. I think there may be a little more bass in 2 channel stereo, but with movies, the front towers seem quieter. The soundstage may be better with biamp as the centre is matched to the fronts. Does that make sense? I may go back tomorrow to full range and see if I can tell a difference.

Would this theory be correct: Powering the tweeters and mids from the Denon 3805 takes away power from the centre and rears? And powering the fronts with the Behringer gives more power to those? Or does the mid and tweets not take much power?

[reeltrouble1]

Your bass drivers take the most power, the tweeters the least, with the mid's well, in between the two. It just takes alot of power to make that big ole long wave, push the driver, stop it, reverse. whew, sounds exhausting. Your transient sounds, sudden bass hits, quick tremelo's, also take power.

You are on the right track, you cannot hear theory, specs, or virtual words, just do it and see what you think. If you just want someone to tell you what to do, you will be missing the fun of the path or the journey as we like to say. Now if you need technical advice in how to wire and so on, somebody here knows, place is a wealth of information.

You are right about all the opinions, but there is more than one way to do things in audio.

RT1

[C J T]

Well guys...I tried it both ways.

Biamping the RTI12's with the Behringer EP2500 produced almost twice the bass. Not kidding. Tried it both ways, back and forth a few times. I have the Denon 3805 on the top end of the towers and the soundstage is far better combined with my Polk CSi5. The rears don't seem as loud, had to turn them up a little.

Thanks to everyone for the posts.

I did however have one little "incident". Stupid by me. I was tightening up my bananas, unplugged one and did not turn off my power. One of the bananas touched the other and I saw a little spark and a loud pop through my system. The volume was not too loud but it did make a pop. Everything seems fine. I hope.

[astrobruce]

I am going to try biamping my brand new RTi12s (can't believe I actually bought these monsters!!!) in order to get more power to them at a lower cost (as someone said earlier). I'll let you know how it goes. But I do have a question about crossovers when biamping these speakers:

Is a crossover needed?

It doesn't seem like Bob used one in his set-up (did you Bob?). I will be taking off the jumpers from the speaker's binding posts, connecting my Harman Kardon AVR 520 (5 X 75W) to the top and adding a yet-to-be-acquired two-channel amp to the bottom (probably something like 2 X 200W). Do I need a crossover in between there somewhere or is there still something in the speakers to handle this? (I am aware that built-in crossover for the mid/tweeters will still be in-line and that the crossover between the bass and the mid/tweeters will be disconnected after removing the jumpers.)

I don't want to replace my AVR 520 due to budget concerns since that would cost about $1500 or more whereas a 2-channel amp could be less than $500 (e.g. Behringer 1500, used GFA 555, etc)

TIA,

--Bruce

[Sherardp]

the crossover is built into the speaker brother. I have mine biamped just like youre planning, Sony 7100es on the top and Outlaw monoblock(200x1) on the bottom of each front Rti12. Good luck and enjoy.

[MADGSF]

IMO I would recommend an amp like this http://cls.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/cls....ran&1184962735 and forget about bi-amping.

There are many threads on bi-amping if you search but to answer your question. To have true bi-amping you will need an external crossover. However that B&K will be great for your RTi-12s.

[C J T]

You can get a Behringer EP2500 for less than that. The best deal in hi-fi. Check it out.

[Willow]

Bahh I couldn't be bothered to biamp my speakers. I just run my 200wpc monos straight.