Denon 3806

[thomask]

I've read a lot that there is trouble with the Denon and HDMI switching??? (new to HT so forgive me if terms aren't correct). I'm leaning toward this receiver, but I read a lot of reviews that are not favorable. Many are though. Is this a receiver for me if I'm new to HT?? Would anyone recommend something else in the 7-800 dollar range that might be comparable? I'd appreciate any help here. I'm looking to use a new receiver with (I think) 2 RTi8's, 1 CSi5, 2 RTi6's, 2 FXi5's and a 10 or 12" sub. I'm real shaky on whether to invest in this or not because of the video problems. I'm not so worried about the audio as I know it's good. Anyone have insight or suggestions?

[TN_Polk_Lover]

Hi, and welcome to Club Polk.

I have a Denon 3806 that I bought right before Thanksgiving as a Christmas gift for myself <grin>. I didn't actually start playing around with it until after Christmas. So far I like it and have not had any problems with it.

However, I do not have anything right now that uses HDMI. There is a very, very long thread in the avs forum about the Denon 3806. The HDMI switching problems are not really the fault of the receiver. HDMI has a copy protection scheme built into it and each device does a "handshake" with each device that it is connected to. Denon correctly implemented the HDMI standard. However, many cable and satelite boxes did not follow the standard exactly and would not "handshake" with the Denon receiver. My understanding is that all of the other receivers such as Yamaha behaved the same way.

The problem is that people bought the 3806, connected their cable boxes to it with HDMI and connected the 3806 to their TV with an HDMI cable and the picture would not appear on the TV, although the cable box connected directly to the TV would work OK. This was all due to the software in the cable box not being designed to work with an "intermediary" or "switch" in between. It all had to do with the security "handshake" not occuring.

When this problem first became known, of course, if you call your cable company, they are clueless and blame it on the receiver. However, Motorola and the other box makers finally admitted there was a problem and most of them have now released firmware updates to fix the problem. Once again, getting your cable company to upgrade your box, or swap out your box with one that has the upgrade is like pulling teeth.

The other big issue with the 3806 is this: It does not do any video scaling. Only the Denon 4000 series and 5000 series receivers do scaling. In other words, if you connect a source such as a VCR that outputs a "standard" signal (480 lines of horizontal resolution, interlaced, aka 480i) the 3806 will pass that signal as is. So the VCR can come in through a regular "yellow" composite video cable and can go out through the HDMI cable to your TV, but it will remain 480i.

Along those same lines, the 3806 On Screen Display (OSD) is 480i. Some people bought it and bought a new High Definition TV that couldn't even do 480i (maybe only 480p = progressive) and the OSD would not show up on their TV.

In my case, my DVR is connected and outputs 480i. My DVD player is connected using the Component out at 480p. Then, my Denon 3806 is connected to my TV via Component Out. If I am watching something off of the DVR, and I adjust the volume or bring up the setup or parameter menu on my 3806, it will "overlay" the volume display or the menu display on top of the picture, but you can still see the picture. That is because the OSD is 480i and what I'm watching is 480i.

However, if I'm watching a DVD and I adjust the volume, I do not get any display on the screen at all. If I bring up the setup menu or the parameter menu, the picture I'm watching goes away, replaced by a solid gray background with the menu in white characters.

To me, this is not a big deal. However, on the AVS forum, there were people who were extremely unhappy with their 3806 after they realized this. They assumed that the menus and volume indication would always be overlayed on the picture they were watching.

I hope this helps a little. I'm happy with mine. I got it on sale from Tweeter (online) for $899. But I understand Best Buy actually had them on clearance as low as 500 to 600 dollars right before Christmas. I think that the new model will be the 3807 or the 3808 and the good sales were to clear out the stock of the 3806.

[thomask]

Wow, super explanation, thanks!!! I guess the question now is, what receiver is comparable to the Denon that would drive my speakers as posted in original post. I'm not ready to run a separate amp yet as budget won't allow it, so I want a good receiver to run those 8's and center channel. I don't want to really hassle with the 3806 now. I REALLY need help here. I'm willing to spend 8-900 dollars on a receiver, or if anyone has any ideas for a decent cheap receiver and separate amp running 7 channels then I'm all ears. Thanks for your help!

[cstpeter]

Thomask, I had the 3806 (as noted in the other post) but didn't do any HDMI switching. I have heard of the problems, though.

Check out this Harman/Kardon 645. It might also mate very well with the RTi series because it'll tame some of the brightness. Don't be concerned about the 75 wpc rating--Harman/Kardon has very honest specs:

http://www.vanns.com/shop/servlet/it...v_c=GoogleBase

If you do a search on this forum I think you'll find many happy owners of this unit. I owned the entry-level Harman/Kardon (the AVR 130) and was happy with it.

[m00npie]

Tricky thing about this hobby, it’s sometimes hard to find exactly what you need within your budget and timeframe of needing it. Are you willing to go the used route and spend just a little bit more? :D

http://cls.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/cls....ult&1177702866

You may be able to negotiate this to within 300.00 of your budget and the 4306 is a solid receiver. I have had mine for about 6 months now and love it. In fact, I’m looking to pick another one up for a family member but I will wait about 3 more months for the price drop.

Denon, and I’m sure other manufactures, will be delivering their new HDMI 1.3 receivers in late spring early summer. You’ll then see the 4306 come within your budget but timeliness will likely be an issue.

[thomask]

Well, I haven't started finishing the basement yet, that starts in early April, so I'm going to be busy thru the summer on it.

Question on the 4306.......are there the same HDMI issues on this model as the 3806?

Another question......if I bought a cheap receiver that does, say, 100wpc (I think the 2807 does this, or an Onkyo) and I run a separate amp from the preamp output, will the amp run the receivers watts per channel PLUS the amps watts per channel??? Or does the amp override the receiver? Can someone explain this? Yes, I'm new to home theater, but this receiver business has got me in a bind!!

Thanks for your help!!

[izafar]

An external Amp doesn't add on to receiver's output, but you can use it generate the similar effect, i-e you can get a good 2 channel external amp to drive your front speakers and then drive rest of the 5 with your AVR. This way your AVR will have to work less to satisfy the load of those 5 speakers. This approach will allow you to add other external amps to rest of the speakers later on. My suggestion would be to get an AVR with decent processing functions, i-e Video switching and up conversion and pair it with at least a good 2 channel amp and then add more amps later on.

[thomask]

Ok, that makes good sense!

1. What brands of 2ch amps should I look for?

2. Is using the 7ch's on the AVR to amp 5 speakers be what I'm seeing called "bi-amping"?

3. Will adding on amps later change any of the wiring schemes inside the wall? Or is it only affected in my enclosed closet?

I hope these questions make sense! Let me know if you don't know what I'm asking--NEW HERE :)

[izafar]

1. There are plenty of brands to look for, and you can get deals on used market. Look for Rotel, Adcom, Nad, parasound or carver amps.

2. Bi-Amp is using a separate amp to power the high level and level inputs on a speaker. There are some 7.1 capable AVRs that allow you to run your main speakers in Bi-amp configuration when you are using the AVR in 5.1 configuration. This wouldn't apply to your case as you will be running your main speakers via the external amp.

3. Adding additional amps wouldn't change the wiring scheme, but you are ever going to bi-amp or bi-wire your main speakers then you need to wire with a double run of wires.

hope this answers your questions

[m00npie]

Question on the 4306.......are there the same HDMI issues on this model as the 3806?

I have 4 devices (1 Component, 3 HDMI) plugged into the 4306 and 1 HDMI out to my Sammy and I have no issues. That doesn't mean there are not issues, but I have not experienced any.