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  1. #1

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    Default Audyssey MultEq and SDA's?

    Just wondering with "Audyssey MultEq Auto-Setup/Room Eq" and similiar products getting more prolific, has anyone tried it with a pair of SDA's? What has happened?
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  2. #2

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    Hi,

    I thought I'd bump this old posting about using Audyssey MultEQ room correction with SDAs.

    I know that some folks think its a bad idea to use equalization in general with SDAs. Can you share any details on why you think this is a bad idea.


    I've been reading up on the Audyssey MultEQ room correction software. For some speakers when measurements are taken off-axis overly-bright "corrections" can result. This is due to the high frequency roll-off from being off-axis. The software in attempting to restore a flat frequency response may make the speaker response too hot at higher frequencies. To overcome this problem the Audyssey folks recommend toeing in the speakers and not taking measurement too far off axis.

    I know that it is recommended that SDAs not be toed so as not to compromise the imaging. Anyone have an opinion on how sensitive the SDAs would be to a small amount of toeing-in?

    Thanks.

    Larry

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    The soundstage collapses; eventually dramatically. Many of the things the SDA's are known for go away when toed in.

    What particular problem are you having with your SDA's? I assume you are having some issues or you wouldn't be considering an EQ. I know you use your SDA's in a nice looking HT, which is not how the typical SDA user has them set-up. Most owners use them in a 2 channel system. Perhaps the SDA properties aren't the most important part of why you use them so maybe they can stand some tweaking without crucially effecting your system.

    H9
    "Appreciation of audio is a completely subjective human experience. Measurements can provide a measure of insight, but are no substitute for human judgment. Why are we looking to reduce a subjective experience to objective criteria anyway? The subtleties of music and audio reproduction are for those who appreciate it. Differentiation by numbers is for those who do not".--Nelson Pass

    Pass Aleph 30; Eastern Electric Mini Max; Adcom GDA600; MIT S3/Z Pc; SDA 1C; Squeezebox; Tubes add soul!

  4. #4

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    I have them as the mains in my 7.1 HT. I would say that the SDA advantages are not only diminised by the EQ but also by the 6 other speakers around the room. I also think the audio setup is too bright after EQ'ing but I don't have evidence to point to why.

    When I listen to 2-ch audio I just put the A/V receiver in "Direct" mode and everything is back to SDA heaven. The again, with non-SDA speakers you could just use your receivers DD PLX II or 7-ch Stereo modes and get a pretty decent soundstage.

    If I was buying new speakers again for mixed HT and 2-ch use I wouldn't get the SDA's. But, since I've had them for 20+ years and they are spectacular performers (SDA or not), I'm more than happy to use them.

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    Quote Originally Posted by heiney9 View Post
    The soundstage collapses; eventually dramatically. Many of the things the SDA's are known for go away when toed in.

    What particular problem are you having with your SDA's? I assume you are having some issues or you wouldn't be considering an EQ. I know you use your SDA's in a nice looking HT, which is not how the typical SDA user has them set-up. Most owners use them in a 2 channel system. Perhaps the SDA properties aren't the most important part of why you use them so maybe they can stand some tweaking without crucially effecting your system.

    H9
    Hi,

    Thanks very much for the response.

    I am not having any "particular problems" as you frame the question, but I am of the opinion that all speakers, when placed in a room, even a treated room, encounter some room-based colorations due to reflections off of the room boundaries which might be improved with room correction.

    Today, the complex and and high resolution equalization performed in sophisticated room correction software is much advanced over earlier methods that used to seriously compromise the sound. Modern receivers and pre/pro can now analyze the room response and apply thousand of precise adjustments all in the digital domain without impacting the sound by digital to analogy conversions. This is not to say that all rooms, and all owners, will be satisfied with the results, but after experimentation, there is always the option of trying manual adjustment, or simply turning it off.

    Agreed, I don't use my SDAs as many owners use them, but I'm sure you'll agree that an accurate speaker with good imaging can be of benefit in a home theater and that these useful characteristic are not strictly confined to two-channel audio. Apparently Matt Polk didn't think the SDA technology should be confined to two-channel. He did design the Signature Reference Theater (SRT) System.

    Like most things in life, our hobby frequently deals in compromises. In this case toeing-in the SDA would probably sacrifice some imaging for a smoother room response.

    Thanks again for your insights and interest.

    Larry
    Last edited by Larry Chanin; 07-10-2008 at 04:10 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by gij801 View Post
    I have them as the mains in my 7.1 HT. I would say that the SDA advantages are not only diminised by the EQ but also by the 6 other speakers around the room. I also think the audio setup is too bright after EQ'ing but I don't have evidence to point to why.
    Hi,

    Thanks for your response.

    If you are using Audyssey the reason for the bright response may be due to what I described in my original posting.

    SDA speakers are designed not to be toed-in. Therefore, the off-axis response will experience a greater high frequency roll off than if they were toed-in. The Audyssey software attempts to correct for this roll-off and the results may be higher than you are used to, or it may simply over-correct. In addition, if the measurement microphone is placed too far off-axis the same overly bright "correction" may result.

    Larry

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    Quote Originally Posted by gij801 View Post
    I have them as the mains in my 7.1 HT. I would say that the SDA advantages are not only diminised by the EQ but also by the 6 other speakers around the room.
    I had a similar experience with SDA's. I found they didn't blend well with the other speakers in the room. It didn't sound right at all. This may have been due to timbre and phase differences though. Next time, I'll try reversing the phase on my rears to see if it helps at all.

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    I use MultiEq XT on my Onkyo with a pair of SDA1C in the front. I don't notice anything terrible happening. It still sounds better than it did with my RT800i in the front. Of course, when listening to music, I am always in Pure Direct, which disables Audyssey.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Face View Post
    I had a similar experience with SDA's. I found they didn't blend well with the other speakers in the room. It didn't sound right at all. This may have been due to timbre and phase differences though. Next time, I'll try reversing the phase on my rears to see if it helps at all.
    Hi,

    Just to clarify, are you using Audyssey MultEQ, or are you simply saying you face a timbre match problem with your other non-SDA speakers?

    Thanks.

    Larry

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    Quote Originally Posted by billbillw View Post
    I use MultiEq XT on my Onkyo with a pair of SDA1C in the front. I don't notice anything terrible happening. It still sounds better than it did with my RT800i in the front. Of course, when listening to music, I am always in Pure Direct, which disables Audyssey.
    Hi Bill,

    Thanks for the response.

    When you listen to music without Audyssey, is that two-channel music versus multi-channel music? Would you mind discussing why you prefer listening to music without Audyssey?

    Thanks.

    Larry

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    Quote Originally Posted by Larry Chanin View Post
    Hi,

    Just to clarify, are you using Audyssey MultEQ, or are you simply saying you face a timbre match problem with your other non-SDA speakers?

    Thanks.

    Larry
    I don't have Audyssey in this pre-pro, I had it in my last one and it seemed to make the sound dull.

    As for the SDA's, I believe it was more due to the SDA affect than the non matching timbres. I've tried other speakers and here and didn't have such problems.

  12. #12

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    Quote Originally Posted by Face View Post
    I had a similar experience with SDA's. I found they didn't blend well with the other speakers in the room. It didn't sound right at all. This may have been due to timbre and phase differences though. Next time, I'll try reversing the phase on my rears to see if it helps at all.
    Quote Originally Posted by Face
    As for the SDA's, I believe it was more due to the SDA affect than the non matching timbres. I've tried other speakers and here and didn't have such problems.
    Hi,

    Hopefully some of the SDA experts can chime in here, but the SDA effect just cancels Interaural Crosstalk and by doing so it improves imaging. The signature sound of each SDA model, like all conventional speakers, depends on its drivers. Differences in drivers between speakers accounts for differences in timbre.

    Audyssey claims to help match timbre between speakers via MultEQ.

    MultEQ makes each speaker's response closely match the desired target curve. As a result, each speaker is not only corrected but also matched to every other speaker in the system. This has a dramatic effect on improving the soundstage because matched frequency response is one of the cues that human hearing relies on for imaging. This is what reviewers mean when they say "The soundstage snaps into place."
    Larry

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