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Thread: New here

  1. #1

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    Default New here

    My story:

    I'm in the process of remodeling my house. It's a long story, but my wife wanted a new bathroom and that forced me to get an entertainment center (sucks, right?). The wife then threatens to buy new furniture for the house and I negotiate a quid-pro-quo deal: if she gets her furniture, I get to upgrade the surround sound system. So hear we are.

    I got my first HT setup in 2002 with a Mitsubishi WD-73733 (boy was I sad when that died last year) and a yamaha HT-in-a-box.

    In 2006, I needed HDMI switching so got a Sony STR-DG810 and a set of Polk RM10s

    When we moved into this house in 2010, I just used the tiny Sony speakers the previous owner had installed.

    This time, I'm hoping to go a bit higher end. I bought a lightly used pair of LSI-9s and am looking for the right receiver and center to go with them. For the short term, I'll probably repurpose the RM-10s as surrounds.

    I'm hoping to steal a bit of knowledge from y'all in this journey. Be forewarned, I'm impulsive (in case you couldn't already tell!)

    Here's the current state of the entertainment center:
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    That sounds fun! What area of the country are you in?

    A few more things will help us help you, um, spend your money. Size and layout of the room in particular. You will also need to budget for stands if you have not already.

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    I'm in L.A.

    It's probably easier to describe the layout via photo than descriptively. The vaulted ceilings are probably 12'. I'm planning on mounting all the speakers on the wall (except the center which will be on a shelf). I know it is probably far from the ideal layout, but it's what I have to work with.

    IMG_20140407_194613.jpg

    IMG_20140407_194638.jpg

    IMG_20140407_194604.jpg

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    My goal is to put together as much bang for the buck as I can get. I'm not at all shy about going used to get more quality/$ than I'd be able to get new.

    Given that, would http://www.polkaudio.com/forums/show...s-For-sale-200 be a good investment?

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    Those would be a good start. And considering you've got the walls right next to the rear speaker locations the outward facing drivers would have something to bounce the sound off of and you may not need the extra left and right surrounds.
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    Welcome to the club... what part of L.A.?

    I am in Woodland Hills, and building out my HT space right now...
    HT Setup... Pioneer Elite SC-37, Polk Audio SDA-SRS 1.2TL's , Oppo BDP 93
    Two Channel... Carver Statement 450~1 Vacuum Tube Monoblocks, Dodd Mid-line Tube Linestage with Psvane 12Ax7 tubes, Pioneer Pdd 9Mk II SACD Player, Yamaha PX-3 Turntable with Sumiko BPS EvoIII, Polk Audio SDA-SRS 1.2TLs.


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    You mentioned a receiver for your LSi's. I can pretty much guarantee that many of the forum members will recommend that with LSi's you are going to want a receiver with pre-outs and a separate amp.

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    Quote Originally Posted by nooshinjohn View Post
    Welcome to the club... what part of L.A.?

    I am in Woodland Hills, and building out my HT space right now...
    I'm just up the road in Northridge.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Zeros View Post
    You mentioned a receiver for your LSi's. I can pretty much guarantee that many of the forum members will recommend that with LSi's you are going to want a receiver with pre-outs and a separate amp.
    I'd prefer to find something that can do a good enough job with them for now and buy the separate amp later, but I am open to the idea. My budget is about $2.5k for the center and receiver. I'm hoping to find a nice used LSiC for around $400.

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    I suspect you can find a good receiver with preamp outs as well as an amp and the LSic for well under 2.5k. I picked up an open box Marantz 5007 from Crutchfield for about 500 bucks, and then paid a couple hundred more for a used amp to drive my Lsi-7's.
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    Quote Originally Posted by jflail2 View Post
    I suspect you can find a good receiver with preamp outs as well as an amp and the LSic for well under 2.5k. I picked up an open box Marantz 5007 from Crutchfield for about 500 bucks, and then paid a couple hundred more for a used amp to drive my Lsi-7's.
    Would there be any problem driving the LSi-C from the AVR or would I need a 3-channel amp? I was leaning toward the Onkyo 929, as I would like to have a Phono input and 6+ HDMI inputs (and wouldn't mind having 4K pass-through for a bit of future-proofing). But, I don't know much about the different manufacturers. Is Marantz significantly better?

    There's this other slight problem of needing to rewire the entertainment center if I go with an external amp, but that's not a huge deal.

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    I honestly picked up the Marantz solely b/c it was being sold locally and marked down (and had the prerequisite pre-amp outs), so I can't comment on which is better.

    And I suspect you'll want to consider a 3ch or 5ch amp, but the pros here can confirm. Just passing along what worked for my bedroom 2 ch rig. GL with your hunt.
    2007 Club Polk Football Pool Champ

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    Quote Originally Posted by payneinthe View Post
    Would there be any problem driving the LSi-C from the AVR or would I need a 3-channel amp? I was leaning toward the Onkyo 929, as I would like to have a Phono input and 6+ HDMI inputs (and wouldn't mind having 4K pass-through for a bit of future-proofing). But, I don't know much about the different manufacturers. Is Marantz significantly better?

    There's this other slight problem of needing to rewire the entertainment center if I go with an external amp, but that's not a huge deal.

    I've got the 828 here at work, and any TV you could possibly want right here at work... give me a buzz @ 818-340-1125 and we can see what we need to get you hooked up.

    John
    HT Setup... Pioneer Elite SC-37, Polk Audio SDA-SRS 1.2TL's , Oppo BDP 93
    Two Channel... Carver Statement 450~1 Vacuum Tube Monoblocks, Dodd Mid-line Tube Linestage with Psvane 12Ax7 tubes, Pioneer Pdd 9Mk II SACD Player, Yamaha PX-3 Turntable with Sumiko BPS EvoIII, Polk Audio SDA-SRS 1.2TLs.


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    Thanks, John! I take it you work in A/V?

    After seeing your signature, I took a look at the Pioneer Elite SC-72. With the exception of a phono input, it seems to have everything I'm looking for, including support for 4 ohm @ 210W.

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    Impulse strikes again. I pulled the trigger on those F/X 1000s. There's not enough room for them on the back wall (only about 12" clearance back there). They'll have to be side-surrounds.

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    Quote Originally Posted by payneinthe View Post
    Thanks, John! I take it you work in A/V?

    After seeing your signature, I took a look at the Pioneer Elite SC-72. With the exception of a phono input, it seems to have everything I'm looking for, including support for 4 ohm @ 210W.
    Still, not the best option running 4 ohm speakers off a receiver. You can maybe get by with 2 or 3 at moderate volumes but I would hesitate running a full blown set up of 4 ohm speakers. 4 ohm speaks love current, power hungry. Most any receiver will fall short of delivering those goods or getting a 4 ohm speaker to perform up to it's potential.

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    I expect I'll get around to external amplification in the not-too-distant future. For now, I'd like to focus on getting an AVR that can do an adequate job with the speakers, has pre-outs for future expansion and handles the video side well. Is that an reasonable approach?

    Any thoughts on Onkyo 929 vs Pioneer Elite SC-72? Pioneer seems to win on power and Onkyo seems to win on bells-n-whistles.

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    Those LSi9's are about the worst speakers you could've chosen to run off a receiver. The LSiC is a very poor choice as well. I can't offer input as I'm not in the receiver game at all, but I'm just offering up another word of caution when pushing those with a receiver as they won't play nicely. Have fun on your journey man. Keep that volume level in check and get a separate amp ASAP.
    Usher CP-6311, Shuguang S200MK, Shuguang S845MK, Pioneer BDP-51fd, Douglas IC's, AQ cv-8 SC's, Pangea/Douglas PC's, Epson 8100

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    It sounds to me like the consensus is that it doesn't matter what receiver. It could have 300wpc but a separate amp would still be preferred. I don't want to sound skeptical, but can someone educate me on why that's the case? I, being a dumb newbie, thought power is power.

    Is a 75wpc amp better than a 210wpc receiver?

    This seems to have gone beyond a simple introduction and into more specific topics. Let me know if I should restart the thread in a more appropriate forum.

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    Receivers as a general rule, are built to a compromise. Stuffing all the stuff one can do into one chassis means stuff is dropped like big heatsinks, oversized power supplies, etc. Sure some receivers can drive a 4 ohm load, to moderate volumes for a short while but they will begin to get hot, some will find the thermal overload or current limiting devices to self protect. Even my Onkyo AVR is rated to run with 4 ohm speakers, would I want to do it ? No. It gets warmish with 3 8 ohm speakers at a good volume after a few movies. I have an external amp, runs the big towers, does it better than the AVR could and takes the load off the AVR in a big big way.

    Dedicated amps, a box devoted to a single task, amplification, better power supplies, heatsinks up the wazoo (the better ones that is) and a lot of rated and have no issues with 4 ohm loads, why ? Think about it for a moment, a good dedicated amp is like the Cummins diesel compared to say a V6 gas engine in the receiver. both will move stuff, the diesel has the torque (current) to drive the lower impedances of the LSi series which require more current, current a receiver just can't deliver, unless it's say a Harman Kardon HK 990...200 amps apparantly.

    Others will chime in as well. By the way, not all watts are created equally.
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    Thanks for the explanation. If I were to go with external amplification, the Onkyo 818 is probably all I need on the AVR side.

    I could probably talk myself into spending up to $1k on an amp. What should I be looking at?

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    A realistically rated, well built 75 wpc amp will far outperform an unrealistically rated 210 wpc avr, especially on a tough load like 4 ohm speakers. The lsi9 has a tough impedance curve that can really strain an amp regardless of rated power. A well designed amp should be able to handle the load and provide the power to make them shine. The lower the impedance dip a speaker has, the tougher it is on an amp.
    Usher CP-6311, Shuguang S200MK, Shuguang S845MK, Pioneer BDP-51fd, Douglas IC's, AQ cv-8 SC's, Pangea/Douglas PC's, Epson 8100

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    Is this the sort of thing I should be looking for? http://www.ebay.com/itm/B-K-Referenc...-/161264046945

    Or should I be focusing on something like an Emotiva XPA-5 or Parasound 2205?

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    Quote Originally Posted by payneinthe View Post
    Thanks for the explanation. If I were to go with external amplification, the Onkyo 818 is probably all I need on the AVR side.

    I could probably talk myself into spending up to $1k on an amp. What should I be looking at?
    I don't think you need to spend that much on an amp, if you can find say a used Parasound HCA-1200II (yes that precisely) or a HCA-1500 on the used market either with their specs closely spaced as both put out 205wpc with enough current to satisfy an LSi9 with ease. Either can be found for $500 or less. The 1500 is slightly better for current but if you look at my sig, I have the 1200II, it might be old but it packs quite the wallop for the money.
    Living Room Evolved
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    Polk Audio RTi A3 Black Rear
    Polk Audio CSiA6 Center
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    Marantz CD6004
    Apple Mac Mini
    Apple TV 3rd Gen
    Sony PS3 160Gb/Microsoft XBox 360
    Insignia 55 inch 120Hz TV

    Bedroom
    Harman Kardon HK 3490/HK 3375
    A:Onkyo SKF-4800 Towers Black
    B:Polk Monitor (Model) 5 with Peerless Tweets
    Polk PSW108
    PS3 320Gb
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    Is a 2ch amp enough? We're talking about 2 LSi-9s, 2 F/X 1000 and an LSiC. Should I just bite the bullet and go 5ch?

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    According to Polk's website, the F/X 1000's are 8 ohm, easier load for an AVR to directly drive and the 818 isn't a slouch in the power department if you get it, A decent 2 channel amp can handle the 9's and the AVR might seriously be able to cope with a single 4 ohm center until you can go further. Just throwing out ideas is all.
    Living Room Evolved
    Onkyo TX-NR717
    Parasound HCA-1200II > Polk Audio RTi A7 Black Front
    Polk Audio RTi A3 Black Rear
    Polk Audio CSiA6 Center
    Tannoy TS2.12 Sub
    Marantz CD6004
    Apple Mac Mini
    Apple TV 3rd Gen
    Sony PS3 160Gb/Microsoft XBox 360
    Insignia 55 inch 120Hz TV

    Bedroom
    Harman Kardon HK 3490/HK 3375
    A:Onkyo SKF-4800 Towers Black
    B:Polk Monitor (Model) 5 with Peerless Tweets
    Polk PSW108
    PS3 320Gb
    Insignia 39 inch 60Hz TV

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    I'd go 3 channel minimum.
    Usher CP-6311, Shuguang S200MK, Shuguang S845MK, Pioneer BDP-51fd, Douglas IC's, AQ cv-8 SC's, Pangea/Douglas PC's, Epson 8100

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    Bite the bullet and you will be rewarded later. Look into the used market for some fine deals. Hang around, 85 to go.

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    @chumlie, I don't have the patience for that :D I guarantee you I'll be done buying by the time I hit 100.

    Is that BK I linked to a good deal?

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    Meh, you can run LSi's off a receiver, just don't expect much. I run LSi9's and an LSiC off my old school Yamaha RX-V3000, but it gets used for pretty low volume TV watching duty and occasional music while cleaning duty. Never gets turned up much, but works fine when I open it up a little.

    However this AVR has a transformer as large as some separate amps I've seen, large heat sinks and weighs 51lbs...TWICE my Marantz SR7005, and it's obviously all in the transformer and heat sinks...they just don't make them like they used to...

    But if I were serious about using them for movies/music they'd get a separate amp. :)
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