In-wall speakers for HT in new house

[dragon1952]

It's time to think about my living room HT setup in the new house. I don't need anything fancy and this will strictly be for HT and occassional background music. Was thinking about the in-wall RC85i and/or RC65i's, maybe the 85i's in front and 65i's in the rear or possibly 85i's all around. In an 18 x 16 room that is opened up into the rest of the house, any opinions/suggestions/comments? Do you think the 85i would be that much better than the 65i's? I can get either ones for about half of retail. Any other brand worth considering?
Thanks in advance ;)

[dave shepard]

I would concider looking at the TCi series. I am putting in a pair (TC60i) in a bath/laundry room job I'm doing and they are really nice sounding. They do quite a good job and are adjustable for boundry response and a have tweeter level switch for room acoustics like the RCi but give much better detail and bass responce. The imaging and sound stage is wide and spot on and for HT they will do you a great job.
In any case with either speaker you choose in a room that size I would use the bigger drivers for all because you will not get the same amount of bass from a ceiling speaker as you would a tower so the extra size would be the better choice IMO.

Good luck

Dave

[wallstreet]

Paradigm's top of the line has some nice inwalls. If you're going to go with background music, I'd go the same speaker all the way around. I'd also go with the bigger speaker for better bass response. Do the 65 or 85's come with performance enclosures?

[Defiant]

As far as other brands, cant hekp you there. But are you in the build stage? If so then consider building enclosures for the speakers with insulation behind them. Are they going in wall or in ceiling? I am doing a 7.1 system with the RC 85 going in vaulted ceiling in 14x25 room dimensions open like yours. Im building the enclosures, insulating and covering with plywood (a box so to speak) for each speaker. My house is still in the build stage, cant wait to get to the point to do this.
Specs between above mentioned speakers are close, doubt you can hear the difference between them IMO. Dont forget about spacing (placement) for speakers. Hope this helps. :)

[dragon1952]

Appreciate the input guys!
The TC or LC series would be sweet but not sure I want to spend that much. I can get the RC85i's for $219 a pair shipped and the RC65i's for around $165. I've had Paradigm before and that would be sweet too but probably up there with the LC series.
Defiant....you say your rears are going in the ceiling? I guess I could do that. The rear of the listening area will be at the start of the ceiling pitch so around 8'. Yes, I am in the building process. Would your boxes be ported or anything? How much room do you have in the ceiling for enclosures? In the wall I guess I'd only have about 6 inches. I was just thinking about throwing some insulation around them.
I'm thinking about using the in-walls as fronts too mainly because I don't have any speakers that match any of the Polks and I really don't want large floorstanders anyway. Does anyone think I'd be better off with some small bookshelfs like the RTi6 in the front vs the in-walls? Again this is just for a decent HT experience and some background music...nothing extraordinary.

[SCompRacer]

My LCi series cut sheet had in-wall/ceiling enclosure dimensions, so download the manuals for the speakers you are going to get or contact Polk for them. In the wall, all you need are fire breaks between the studs above and below the speaker location. Polk listed the dimensions of the enclosure by stud size so I didn’t have to do any math. The enclosures are not ported.

In the ceiling, use some doubled up MDF or plywood glued and screwed between the joists to make the box/backing for the enclosure. I have a pic of one in my showcase. I use two LC60i’s in my ceiling for rears. My room size is 14’ x 22’ x 8.5’ and they do fine. Initially I had LC65i’s for R & L fronts and wasn’t happy, so I got the LC265i three ways and it made a significant improvement. Surface area does make a difference, so get the 85i’s for fronts & centers and consider 80i’s for the rears. An all in-wall/ceiling system sounds very good, but you could use towers or bookshelves as fronts. My system is mixed with a pair of LSi7 bookshelfs for surrounds.

The pre-construction brackets for the speakers are not very expensive so consider getting some. When the wallboard goes up, the hole is easily cut with a RotoZip. The openings can also be carefully hand cut with the supplied template. Leave a couple of feet of excess cable at the speaker location so it is easy to connect them. You can toss a couple of handfuls of insulation or fiberfill in before you mount the speakers.

My speaker cables terminate at two speaker binding post plates in the wall behind the equipment rack. Electrical box covers were nailed to the studs before the wallboard went up for the plates to attach to. I used lengths of in-wall speaker cable to connect the amp to the wall plate. A pic of that is also in my showcase. I also ran RG6 in the wall to the sub-woofer. They terminate at F type wall plates. Use F type to RCA adapters to connect the sub and AVR with RCA terminated cables. View the post with pic here.

[dragon1952]

Cool! Thanks for the info. Did you terminate the RG6 yourself? Did you use screw on connectors or crimp?

[disneyjoe7]

Crimp always never screw, just my $.02 :)

[SCompRacer]

Did you use screw on connectors or crimp?

Like Steve prefers, I crimped. They have a push lock type connector too, but IIRC that tool and those type connectors cost more than the crimp pliars and crimp on connectors.

[wallstreet]

Here's a pic of my backs. These are the AB755's since they match the rest of my speakers. I just filled in the back with pink fiberglass roll insulation. Sounded much nicer than with nothing at all.

[dragon1952]

Nice...thanks for the pic!

BTW, anyone heard of these NHT IW4's? They have them on Ebay for $250 a pair.
http://www.onecall.com/ProductDetails.aspx?id=31738

[Defiant]

Sorry for late reply, working night shift. SComp said it all tho. What he said is my plan. :)

[Defiant]

BTW, love the pics of your house project. Awesome view!

[dragon1952]

Thanks bud!
SComp......I'm assuming that the speakers will also actually mount to the brackets? Does this make mounting a lot easier? Actually I find $50 a little steep for metal frames but if it makes installation easier and more secure I guess it would be worth it.

[RuSsMaN]

Whatever you do, go ahead and be a jedi. Timber it up. FIVE the same, all the way around. Compliment with a good sub.

Cheers,
Russ

[SCompRacer]

Thanks bud!
SComp......I'm assuming that the speakers will also actually mount to the brackets? Does this make mounting a lot easier? Actually I find $50 a little steep for metal frames but if it makes installation easier and more secure I guess it would be worth it.

I agree. I don't recall them being that high when I priced them a couple of years ago. Or the dealer was going to cut me a deal since I spent quite a few bucks there. I actually found out about the construction brackets too late into my project. I was both boss and laborer on my 40' x 14' lighted lower level project and was pretty burned out towards the end. It was just a few weeks before the wallboard went up that I decided to do an in-wall surround.

The pre-construction brackets just make it easier for the wallboard installer to know where to cut that perfectly sized hole out. The plastic clamps hold the speaker tightly to the wall without the metal brackets. The speaker clamps are plastic and would flex or crack before pulling though the wallboard if they were overtightened.

I just had good measurements written down where to cut my holes. You need two, the distance from the floor/ceiling and from a nearby wall. Deduct for wallboard thickness when measuring from bare studs. You have to be 1" or more away from a stud for the clamps to swing out and grab the wallboard. If you do fire break/ceiling box enclosures, you need to maintain that 1" minimum clearance from them. Position and level the patterns and trace around them with a pencil. Drill some holes at the corners and use a wallboard saw to cut the opening.

If your good with a RotoZip, cut it out free hand following your mark. RotoZips spin at high speed though and can get away from you, cutting out a nice slot to be patched. The bits are designed with a pilot tip that allows you to trace around metal box covers/pre-construction brackets under the wallboard providing you with a clean, perfect sized hole. Without a metal guide behind the wallboard, you have to careful guiding it. Talk to your wallboard installers, maybe they would cut the holes out for you. If they screw it up, the mudders will fix it.

[scottnbnj]

if you're installing in a vaulted ceiling with roofing on the exterior opposite the living space, just remember to leave air space between the roof sheathing and the insulation or enclosure to keep your roof healthy. generally you don't want to obstruct airflow from the bottom to the top of of rafter bays.

in addition aside from sonic performance, it would be a good idea to insulate inside the enclosure for insulation purposes, not just to regulate indoor temperature, but, also to help avoid condensation, mold and/or ice dams inside and out.

)

[dragon1952]

OK....in case anybody really gives a crap how this turned out, after much thought I had narrowed it down to :

Boston Acoustics Dsi480 - $218 shipped per pair ($599 retail)
Polk Audio RC85i - $219 shipped per pair ($390 retail)
Dayton Audio KS830W - $170 shipped per pair ($250 retail)


I had just about jumped on the Dayton's, just on a hunch. I kinda liked the 3-way design with pivotable tweeter and midrange and the 8" Kevlar drivers.
However, one last trip to Ebay found the RC85i's for $169 Buy-it-Now and I said wtf let's get this out of the way so I grabbed 2 pair for a total of $357.80 shipped.

Ta-da! Wasn't that exciting

I was going to grab 3 pair and use a single for the center but by the time I made up my feeble mind only 2 pair were left. Maybe I'll just get a CS1 or CS2.

[engtaz]

Cool, good for you. I think you will be happy with them. I like the CS2.

engtaz

[Defiant]

Are you to the point of putting it all together? I have 4 pair of RC 85i that will leave me with 1 left over. For a fellow polkie, I could send it to ya no charge, if your interested.

[dragon1952]

Wow....no kidding? Hmmm....what a nice offer :D I would certainly be willing to compensate you for it. Maybe even a trade or something? I'll give you a PM. ;)