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  1. #1

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    Question Does the cables really matter??? Or itīs just good marketing?

    Hi, Iīm switiching to a serious AVR and just wondering if I must to invest in upgrade the speaker cables.
    When I got my first receiver bought a reel of RCA 12 gauge cable and serve up today very well.

    So, if I change to Monster or any other better brand. My performance will improve?

    Ansiously waiting for your comments.

    Thanks!

  2. #2

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    It is my opinion that your performance will change. No guarantee if it will be better or worse though. If you are starting with 12guage cables, I would not worry about it unless the rest of your system is pretty stable and you do not plan to change much of anything in the near future.

    While cables do sound differently from each other, I would consider them more a final system tweek rather than a place to start.
    Mains.............Polk LSi15 (Cherry)
    Center............Polk LSiC (Crossover upgraded)
    Surrounds.......Polk LSi7 (Gloss Black - wood sides removed and crossovers upgraded)
    Subwoofers.....SVS 25-31 CS+ and PC+ (both 20hz tune)
    Pre\Pro...........NAD T163 (Modded with LM4562 opamps)
    Amplifier.........Cinepro 3k6 (6-channel, 500wpc@4ohms)

  3. #3

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    When it comes to speaker cable, you don't need to break the bank to get the best out there. You can usually get good 12 AWG speaker wire for about a buck a foot. Forget about that time aligned crap that some manufacturers use to embellish their products and how other manufacturers say that their cables actually improve the sound. Any improvement that they claim is usually a colouration of sound.
    System:

    H/K AVR430 Receiver
    Samsung DVDHD841 Dvd player
    Yamaha CDC506 5 Disc changer
    Jamo E855 Tower speakers
    Wharfdale Pacific P-10 Bookshelf speakers
    Acoustic Research Master Series Interconnects

  4. #4

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    Yes. They matter. How much depends upon the cable. Just do your homework. The best cable I have found so far for the money is Dh Labs Q10. It is on par with the big buck guys for a lot less.
    Sharp Elite 70
    Anthem D2V 3D
    Parasound 5250
    Parasound HCA 1000 A
    Parasound HCA 1000
    Oppo BDP 95
    Von Schweikert VR4 Jr R/L Fronts
    Von Schweikert LCR 4 Center
    Totem Mask Surrounds X4
    Hsu ULS-15 Quad Drive Subwoofers
    Sony PS3
    Squeezebox Touch

    Polk Atrium 7s on the patio just to keep my foot in the door.

  5. #5

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    The only way you will know is to try different cables for yourself.
    'Political Correctness'.........defined

    "A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end."

  6. #6

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    Read this and remember that 12 ga monster cable and zip cord are all made the same way,:

    http://www.roger-russell.com/wire/wire.htm#wiretable
    My gear,
    Acer PH530 720P PJ
    100 inch Da-Lite Video Spectra screen
    Yamaha HTR 5790
    Toshiba HD-A3
    Denon 1600 dvd player with sdi out,
    DVDO iSCAN HD+
    Panasonic Dmr E-80H
    Dishnetwork HD pvr
    1 Audiosource amp300 150 wpc Fronts
    1 Audiosource ampone bridged 200 watts powering center
    1 Onkyo M-282 105 wpc amplifier sides
    polk cs400 center
    polk RT400 mains
    Polk mkII back surrounds,
    Polk FX300fxi dipole surrounds
    Velodyne DPS-10 sub
    Klipsch KSW-10 sub.

  7. #7

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    Quote Originally Posted by louthewiz View Post
    Read this and remember that 12 ga monster cable and zip cord are all made the same way,:

    http://www.roger-russell.com/wire/wire.htm#wiretable
    So, you'd believe something that someone wrote over your own ears? Not much of a wiz in my book.
    'Political Correctness'.........defined

    "A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end."

  8. #8

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    I think they matter a lot based on my own experience. I really don't care if anyone else thinks the same way or not.

    HOWEVER, can't you "cables don't matter" guys come up with something besides that tired old "Roger Russell article"?
    "Just because you’re offended doesn’t mean you’re right." - Ricky Gervais

    "For those who believe, no proof is necessary. For those who don't believe, no proof is possible." - Stuart Chase

    "Consistency requires you to be as ignorant today as you were a year ago." - Bernard Berenson

  9. #9

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    Quote Originally Posted by F1nut View Post
    The only way you will know is to try different cables for yourself.
    BINGO. And it really does depend on what type of gear you have.
    Michael ;)
    In the beginning, all knowledge was new!

    NORTH of 60°

  10. #10

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    The reason I gave "Charliez" the speaker wire link was to illustrate the proper wire gauge to use in his application lengthwise ,
    As for the wire it is mostly made by the same factory which is Carol cable and Leviton distributors , And this information is a know fact since I worked in the electrical contracting business for 25 years and the wire all comes from the same companies that distribute worldwide and then companies like monster AR and rca brands put their names on the insulation.
    My gear,
    Acer PH530 720P PJ
    100 inch Da-Lite Video Spectra screen
    Yamaha HTR 5790
    Toshiba HD-A3
    Denon 1600 dvd player with sdi out,
    DVDO iSCAN HD+
    Panasonic Dmr E-80H
    Dishnetwork HD pvr
    1 Audiosource amp300 150 wpc Fronts
    1 Audiosource ampone bridged 200 watts powering center
    1 Onkyo M-282 105 wpc amplifier sides
    polk cs400 center
    polk RT400 mains
    Polk mkII back surrounds,
    Polk FX300fxi dipole surrounds
    Velodyne DPS-10 sub
    Klipsch KSW-10 sub.

  11. #11

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    If you believe that, I've got a bridge I'd like to sell you.
    'Political Correctness'.........defined

    "A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end."

  12. #12

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    No I don't want to get stuck with the one you bought...
    My gear,
    Acer PH530 720P PJ
    100 inch Da-Lite Video Spectra screen
    Yamaha HTR 5790
    Toshiba HD-A3
    Denon 1600 dvd player with sdi out,
    DVDO iSCAN HD+
    Panasonic Dmr E-80H
    Dishnetwork HD pvr
    1 Audiosource amp300 150 wpc Fronts
    1 Audiosource ampone bridged 200 watts powering center
    1 Onkyo M-282 105 wpc amplifier sides
    polk cs400 center
    polk RT400 mains
    Polk mkII back surrounds,
    Polk FX300fxi dipole surrounds
    Velodyne DPS-10 sub
    Klipsch KSW-10 sub.

  13. #13

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    You couldn't afford it anyway.
    'Political Correctness'.........defined

    "A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end."

  14. #14

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    your sound will improve as long as you stay away from Monster speaker wire. there wire that is the same. for less than half the price monster charges. buy something other than monster and you'll be fine.
    PolkFest 2012, who's going>?
    Vancouver, Canada Sept 30th, 2012 - Madonna concert

  15. #15

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    If you don't have problems with buying used, look around at the various auction sites like ebay or audiogon http://buy.audiogon.com/cgia/fsb.pl?cablspkr

    Try cables out for a few weeks with familiar music, sell them and move on to other cables until you find the ones that you enjoy.
    Life gets more interesting the more we play.

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by shack View Post
    I think they matter a lot based on my own experience. I really don't care if anyone else thinks the same way or not.

    HOWEVER, can't you "cables don't matter" guys come up with something besides that tired old "Roger Russell article"?

    The article says nothing about "cables don't matter", it clearly acknoledges that cables makes a sonic difference. How ever it claims that it is thickness and resistance that matter, and not neccacerily the BS major brands's salespeople say.

    The article also mentions other acceptable sources.

    but most importently the article proves that retailers deliberately mislead buyers when demonstrating high end cables. there is a pic taken in Circuit City demoing Monster cable with Polk Mon 40. they use 50 ft of Monster, very think cable, and 50 ft of "Generic" speaker wire, only it is very very thin.

    Now, they could have used the same thikness of coper wire, and that would be an honest comparison, but I guess that unlike me, they know how to sale speaker cable.

    That aside, who said good, informative articles have an expiration date ?
    Last edited by liordra; 05-26-2007 at 04:55 AM.

  17. #17

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    Since wiz can't afford my bridge, how about you?
    'Political Correctness'.........defined

    "A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end."

  18. #18

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    My vote is yes they matter but upgrade all your other components first and work on speaker/sub placements and think heavily about the room acoustics (and room treatments) before you start tweaking with cables but that's my 2 cents. Cable management will help too.

    Of course, if you start with very cheap sub-par cables then at the very least get them up to some sort of decent standard. I'm a married guy so every $ counts so I'd rather spend on speakers and electronics. Once I'm happy with them I'll start upgrading my cables if I'm having issues (speakers humming) or I'm bored (I like to tinker).

  19. #19

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    Trial and error determined by your own ears.The better your gear,the more cables will make a difference.

    Jesse's got bridges..? I want one!!:D

  20. #20

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    Depending on the level of gear you own will decide what level of cables you should look into. Go to high and you will not benefit from them go to low and lose performance.

    Cables like any other part of your system matters. If you want to buy nice gear and wire it with lower end cables, thats your bussiness but know your system will not perform to the best of it's ability.

    You can put any kind of tires on your car.............
    Dan
    My personal quest is to save to world of bad audio, one thread at a time.

  21. #21

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    Quote Originally Posted by mantis View Post
    Depending on the level of gear you own will decide what level of cables you should look into. Go to high and you will not benefit from them go to low and lose performance.

    Cables like any other part of your system matters. If you want to buy nice gear and wire it with lower end cables, thats your bussiness but know your system will not perform to the best of it's ability.

    You can put any kind of tires on your car.............
    So, what would you suggest that the ratio of hardware to cables be, and would that ratio work for systems of any price?

    I believe that if you do a little research on cables, you do not need to spend a whackload of cash to optimize your system. But, it seems that most people are gullible to the marketing crap that cable manufactures put out. The way these cable manufactures advertise, you would think that they radically changed the laws of physics.
    System:

    H/K AVR430 Receiver
    Samsung DVDHD841 Dvd player
    Yamaha CDC506 5 Disc changer
    Jamo E855 Tower speakers
    Wharfdale Pacific P-10 Bookshelf speakers
    Acoustic Research Master Series Interconnects

  22. #22

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    Quote Originally Posted by MGPK View Post
    But, it seems that most people are gullible to the marketing crap that cable manufactures put out.
    It's a good thing you're here to set us poor gullible fools straight...
    "Just because you’re offended doesn’t mean you’re right." - Ricky Gervais

    "For those who believe, no proof is necessary. For those who don't believe, no proof is possible." - Stuart Chase

    "Consistency requires you to be as ignorant today as you were a year ago." - Bernard Berenson

  23. #23
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    I buy ICs or speaker wire. I place them in my rig. I listen and then switch back and I listen. Then I switch back and I listen. If I like what I hear, I keep the product, if I don't I send it back or sell it.

    See how simple . . . case closed. Cables matter!

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    BTW try this website. They sell used cable and wire at huge discounts.

  25. #25

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    Quote Originally Posted by shack View Post
    It's a good thing you're here to set us poor gullible fools straight...
    Thanks man, i really appreciate that.;)
    System:

    H/K AVR430 Receiver
    Samsung DVDHD841 Dvd player
    Yamaha CDC506 5 Disc changer
    Jamo E855 Tower speakers
    Wharfdale Pacific P-10 Bookshelf speakers
    Acoustic Research Master Series Interconnects

  26. #26

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    So, if I change to Monster or any other better brand. My performance will improve?
    Your performance will not change at all. Differences in sound between cables of the proper guage has never been verified. The "believers" will tell you that we don't yet know how to measure things like soundstage, depth, pace, etc., so basically measurements are worthless.

    They will tell you to trust your ears, yet in cable comparisons, they can't tell the difference without seeing the cables being compared.

  27. #27

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    Quote Originally Posted by WilliamM2 View Post
    Your performance will not change at all. Differences in sound between cables of the proper guage has never been verified. The "believers" will tell you that we don't yet know how to measure things like soundstage, depth, pace, etc., so basically measurements are worthless.

    They will tell you to trust your ears, yet in cable comparisons, they can't tell the difference without seeing the cables being compared.
    Yes.That's right. We are all lying to you.
    Sharp Elite 70
    Anthem D2V 3D
    Parasound 5250
    Parasound HCA 1000 A
    Parasound HCA 1000
    Oppo BDP 95
    Von Schweikert VR4 Jr R/L Fronts
    Von Schweikert LCR 4 Center
    Totem Mask Surrounds X4
    Hsu ULS-15 Quad Drive Subwoofers
    Sony PS3
    Squeezebox Touch

    Polk Atrium 7s on the patio just to keep my foot in the door.

  28. #28

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    Quote Originally Posted by wingnut4772 View Post
    Yes.That's right. We are all lying to you.
    If you did a blind ABX test, then you would discover the truth. Let your ears determine the difference of quality instead of your wallet or belief system.
    System:

    H/K AVR430 Receiver
    Samsung DVDHD841 Dvd player
    Yamaha CDC506 5 Disc changer
    Jamo E855 Tower speakers
    Wharfdale Pacific P-10 Bookshelf speakers
    Acoustic Research Master Series Interconnects

  29. #29

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    Wooww. Excellent thread!
    Iīm discovering that cables itīs like religion or something like this :). Terms like "believers" or "belief", really I didnīt expect. :)

    I think this level of discussion is very enriching since sometimes the truth is not just One.

    I think Iīll try with any other cable but would try than cable cost less that my avr! :) Iīm surprised with the high costs for some cables

    Thanks for your thoughts!

  30. #30

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    Quote Originally Posted by MGPK View Post
    If you did a blind ABX test, then you would discover the truth. Let your ears determine the difference of quality instead of your wallet or belief system.
    Something both sides of this argument apparently believe. I have listened to multiple cables and found they made a difference (sometimes better and sometimes worse). Provided MGPK followed his own advice, he apparently did not. (notice a difference that is)

    I would be dubious of anyones opinion that starts with - I don't have to listen, I know......

    Ultimately - its your system and your money. Go to a high end audio shop and verify that they have a return policy, pick up some nice cables (or ask if they have a demo set you can try out) and listen for yourself. Return your new cables or sell your old ones - doesn't matter one way or the other to me and my system - but that is the only way you will know if it matters to you.

    Michael
    Mains.............Polk LSi15 (Cherry)
    Center............Polk LSiC (Crossover upgraded)
    Surrounds.......Polk LSi7 (Gloss Black - wood sides removed and crossovers upgraded)
    Subwoofers.....SVS 25-31 CS+ and PC+ (both 20hz tune)
    Pre\Pro...........NAD T163 (Modded with LM4562 opamps)
    Amplifier.........Cinepro 3k6 (6-channel, 500wpc@4ohms)

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