Lsi sETup, not performing well

[cokewithvanilla]

I bought a 5.0 setup consisting of LSi25's, LSiC,LSiFX. I have not purchased a subwoofer yet, but when I was testing the speakers, I was very disappointed.

I listened to the movie Sahara on someone’s HT system, which uses OM-9's, some old Boston acoustic rears and their TV's speakers as the center channel. During the opening scene when the mortars were hitting the ship I could hear the clang, and when it rattled the gold coins, I would hear the gold coins... on these polks, I hear none of this... everything is muted. I hear a standard boom. I have an old set of bad sony speakers that are comparable to these polks.... what is wrong?

I had intended to finish this system out with another set of LSiFX and a PSW1000.... but now I have no idea what to do... from all appearances... these speakers Suck!

could this have to do with the receiver I am using?

[janmike]

First of all, the speakers do not suck. What are you driving the speakers with. Most people here find that you will need a minimum of 200wpc for the LSi series speakers to sound decent.

I use LSi9's, LSiC & LSi/FX with a Proceed AMP5 (250wpc) and they sound great.

[lanion]

Is it possible the speakers are setup for biwiring and you are using standard wire? (i.e. no bridge terminals on the back of the binding posts) This would mean no high frequency noise so no clangs or change. Even if the speakers sucked (which they don't!) you should be hearing things like that.

[lanion]

Even on my 50wpc low current DPR-1001 the LSi speakers sounded good (they sounded a lot better when I got the Outlaw 7125 though). Something is wrong.

[cfrizz]

Welcome Coke.

What you are finding out is that the LSI series are 4ohm speakers and require LOTS of power to sound good.

If your receiver has preamp outputs start checking Audiogon for separate 5 channel amplification of no less than 200wpc.

Outlaw Audio, Rotel, Sunfire, Parasound, Nad, Adcom are some good brands of amplification.

Until you get the amp, be careful with the volume. You run the risk of putting the receiver into protect mode or harming your new speakers.

[cfrizz]

Lanion, Coke is talking about picking up small audible details that often get left out when speakers are driven by a receiver. It is especially true of hard to drive speakers like the LSI's. But it is also true of 8ohm speakers.

Until I got a 205wpc Parasound amp, I didn't know I was missing so many small details in the music! I was hearing things in music I had listened to for years that I just didn't know was there.

He needs more power, plain & simple.

Even on my 50wpc low current DPR-1001 the LSi speakers sounded good (they sounded a lot better when I got the Outlaw 7125 though). Something is wrong.

[wingnut4772]

I don't think he has a power issue. I think he has a set up issue. he says he is not hearing any of the high details. Something is amiss.

[hoosier21]

these are new right, you will need to let them break in for many hours till they sound the best.

These are good speakers, don't give up on them yet.

[lanion]

If he heard the details on a setup using a TV as a center channel, I think there is more to it than power. Anyway, I have not seen Sahara, so I don't know whether those sounds are subtle or if all the high-end is missing.

Lanion, Coke is talking about picking up small audible details that often get left out when speakers are driven by a receiver. It is especially true of hard to drive speakers like the LSI's. But it is also true of 8ohm speakers.

Until I got a 205wpc Parasound amp, I didn't know I was missing so many small details in the music! I was hearing things in music I had listened to for years that I just didn't know was there.

He needs more power, plain & simple.

[lanion]

Other potential Setup problems: make sure you DVD player is outputting Dolby Digital 5.1 or DTS and not 2 Channel LPCM. Your reciever should be set to crossover the LSiC and the LSiFX speakers at 80hz and set your Left and Right to Large and set Subwoofer = (L+R or 'Use Mains' or 'none' if no option like that is given).

[Midnite Mick]

I would suggest you first put your ear up against the tweeter and see if you hear anything. I agree with others in that if you are missing sound something is wrong not necessarily related to power. Things may not be as forward and clear but you still should hear something.

Mike

[dane_peterson]

Did you remove the gold jumpers? If so, are you bi-wiring?

[Pepi28]

Is it possible the speakers are setup for biwiring and you are using standard wire? (i.e. no bridge terminals on the back of the binding posts) This would mean no high frequency noise so no clangs or change. Even if the speakers sucked (which they don't!) you should be hearing things like that.

I agree with lanion, I think he has the bridge disconnected and only wired the bottom terminals. Coke you should make sure that if you are wired up using only two wired per speaker then there should be a jumper going from red to red and black to black. I f not you will be missing all of the highs because they are not being sent to the tweeters. Just a thought of course.

[rskarvan]

Polk doesn't make a bad speaker. Some are better than others. But, all are pretty good.

[danger boy]

also check the settings in your receiver.. and make sure that the treble isn't turned down to -8 or something like that... both bass and treble should be set to 0

It sounds like to me as other's have mentioned.. that the jumpers may be removed.. put the jumpers back or make a pair of jumpers using some 14 guage speaker wire.

[cokewithvanilla]

Sorry if i disturbed you, before reading anything else, I want to clarify... these speakers do not suck! I listened to them in the store, and liked them, so I bought them. But from all appearances the ones I have at my home, either suck, or my equipment sucks. I believe it to be the amp. You will laugh if I tell you what it is.... here goes nothing...

Sony STR-DE935... 5+ years old, 500 watt (so it must be something like 150 because its a sony)

They are not biwired, but they have the factory installed gold connector in place.

4 ohm.. that has to be some of it, I forgot to switch my receiver from 8 to 4 when I installed these. I just changed it and noticed a difference.

The receiver has been in protect mode for 3 years now... no idea why.

You guys might be right on with the power…

These LSI25's actually are not new, they were a display model at tweeters, they are going out of business and I got them for a steal.... 1250. (all other's are new though)

Gold plates are set between both the top and the bottom connectors. Tops have the wire going to them... sound is coming out of the tweeters.

Oh, the bass is so boomy… how do I make it more defined?

[cokewithvanilla]

Ok, another one of the problems is that the BOOM on an explosion is muted or boomy, the real sound is not heard, just a rumble.

Also, I would like to connected these speakers to my LFE out since I do not have a sub as of yet, but how do I know if my LFE out is unfiltered?

My receiver has Bass, Mid, and Treb settings in HZ as well as decibels... what do I do to the HZ?

[lanion]

"The receiver has been in protect mode for 3 years now... no idea why."



That sounds like a major problem with your reciever. I don't think it should ever be 'stuck' in protect mode. Check your reciever's documenation on what that could possibly mean.

[lanion]

Mess with your reciever's bass management settings and see if there is a way to direct the LFE signal to your main speakers. What model reciever do you have?

[cokewithvanilla]

Sony STR-DE935

Let me correct what I was saying... I changed the Ohm settings and I now am playing Sahara, I hear the highs and mids, and bass... but everything sounds like I am hearing it through a pillow. Nothing is defined, its all muffled, and just plain bad sounding.

[lanion]

When you change it to the 4 ohm setting what you are essentially doing is telling the reciever to hold back so as not to damage anything.

At this point I might jump on the 'you need better amplification' bandwagon. Cheapest way to go that rout is to get a a cheap reciever with A/V outs that you can plug into a seperate amplifier. The Harman Kardon alone will probobly sound better than your Sony.

www.harmanaudio.com sells cheap recievers with audio-outs that you can connect to a multichannel amp from Outlaw, Adcom, etc...


Outlaw has a nice return policy -- you can try out their products for 30 days risk free (minus ~$50 to ship everything back). It may be a bit of a bummer that expensive speakers need expensive amplification, but that's the way it goes with 4-ohm speakers.

Also I have found that taking the speaker grills off the center channel / mains opens the sound up a little bit. It might help a little.

[cokewithvanilla]

I plan on getting either a Pioneer Elite top end model, or an Itegra one from the top, or maybe a Denon 3806(7) 4806(7)

But what can I do until then?

[danger boy]

on the LSi25's.. with it's powered sub's... turn the volume knob down to about 9 0'clock to lessed the bass output.. fiddle around with that knob till you get just a hit of bass... and dial it up if needed to 10 o'clock or 11 o'clock. sounds like it's cranked up way to high... and that's why it's boomy.

[Midnite Mick]

Could be a placement issue as well. If they are in corners try to pull them forward and away from the side walls. I had my 15's well into the room.

Mike

[hoosier21]

is your receiver set to subwoofer off?

The rest of your problems rest with the Sony, underpowered.

[lanion]

Yes, definately try turning down the active-subs on your LSi25 speakers.

Your Sony Reciever might be able to put out a decent amount of power into 2 channels (but not all 5). Before you get your Elite reciever you could try just running your LSi25s in stereo mode and you might get a signifigant audio quality boost.

[cokewithvanilla]

Its funny that you mention that, because when I listen to music (2 channel) it sounds pretty good.

What about connecting the LSI25 subs through the LFE output??? I don't want to hurt them... but I hear that most LEF outs are filtered.... why would polk want them unfiltered... and is mine filtered or unfiltered... how can I tell?

[lanion]

I just read up on the LSi25 inputs. So you could use a Y-splitter to connect the LFE-output of your Reciever to the Sub-in on your LSi25 (or chain them as is shown in the manual). The LFE channel is only going to contain low frequency information, so there isn't really any reason for there to be a filter on the speaker. My suggestion is to set L+R speakers to full and LFE output going to the L+R speakers via a normal audio interconnect. In this setup the LSi25 speakers will play all the L+R information sent to them as well as all the LFE information sent to them.

Use figure 7 from the LSi25 manual for LFE connections (http://www.polkaudio.com/downloads/m...Si25Manual.pdf)

And in figure 8 it looks like you should remove the jumpers if you are going to use the RCA connectors. In that case you might want to set your L+R speakers to Small and cross them over at 80hz or something (this would be set up in your Sony Reciever's settings). Someone with LSi25s should comment on this.

[cokewithvanilla]

I just set them up sort of like that, since both speakers have LFE in, and my receiver has two LFE outs... I plugged them both into a LFE out. No difference in sound. I also turned the sub's down a lot

[lanion]

Alright, then you should remove the jumpers, set your speakers to small, turn the LFE-output to on, and adjust the crossover until things sound best to you. (60hz or 80hz would be best, I would think).