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  1. #1

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    Question Amp pre out connection to subwoofer

    I have a PSW 250 sub and an Onkyo receiver with a sub pre-out. The guy at circuit city said I really didn't need a Y cable to connect on the subwoofer end. So, I only have my left channel of my subwoofer connected. As far as I can tell, everything works great, but would a Y cable really make a difference????

  2. #2

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    In real short........no,
    don't worry about it,the signal from LFE is mono,your fine!
    Dan
    My personal quest is to save to world of bad audio, one thread at a time.

  3. #3

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    The PSW250 is not equipped with an unfiltered LFE input jack. There is only L/R line level and speaker level inputs.

    So your sub's crossover filter will be active on either input, so be careful not to "double filter" if you are using your receiver for bass management.

    If you have your speaks set to small and your sub set to yes, then crank your sub's filter as high as it will go (like 200 Hz) to avoid any double filtering.

    The use of a Y cable will double the voltage input gain to the sub's amp. It would have exactly the same effect as doubling the sub's volume control at the receiver.

    If the LFE signal seems "hot" enough going to the sub's amp (i.e., you are getting good SPL without having to crank the sub's volume control all the way up), then you should be OK with one line level input.

    Mantis is absolutely correct, the LFE signal is mono and the cable (if you end up using just one) can be connected to either the L or R input.

    Doc
    "What we do in life echoes in eternity"

    Ed Mullen (emullen@svsound.com)
    Director - Technology and Customer Relations
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  4. #4

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    Question double filtering

    Thanks for the expeditious replies!!!

    You mentioned double filtering. First off, my Onkyo receiver does not have small vs. large speaker set up.

    I have three options on my receiver regarding crossover frequency - 80 Hz, 100 Hz, and 120 Hz. I have the RM6200 speaker set with the aformentioned PSW250 sub. What would be the best setting? I saw that the satellite and center channels in the RM6200 list a frequency response at 100Hz (on the low end) so I automatically assumed to set the crossover frequency to that of 100Hz.

    I'm real new to this stuff, but I'm assuming crossover frequency is the frequency at which the sub is solely used for frequencies below the setting...correct?

    So, back to the question.... what would be the best setup? You mentioned turning the crossover knob on the back of the PSW250 all the way up and let the receiver control the crossover...

    If I think about it, wouldn't 120Hz crossover be best? That way the sub will output the extra "ooomph" over a wider range of frequencies.....

    Also, can someone explain the 180 degree switch??

    As I said, I'm new to this and I am making many of what seems to me as apparent assumptions, but I could be wrong.

    Thanks in advance...

    Adam

  5. #5

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    Default one more thing.......

    The only connection I have to my sub is the sub out on the receiver. I'm not running my satellites through it. The satellites and center are directly connected to the amp. Would going through the sub be better.....

    Just so you all know...I'm not having any apparent problems. I love my system and it sounds great (have nothing to compare to though :) ); I just want to make sure I'm getting the best sound out of my system.

    Thanks yet again...

    Adam

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    I wouldn't go much higher than 100 Hz - it can start to affect the sound of male voices if you go above that point.

    What you are telling the receiver to do is route the dedicated LFE channel, AND all center, main, and surround bass frequencies below 100 Hz - to the subwoofer.

    Since the receiver is doing your bass management for you, you don't want the filter at the sub to be active at all, so crank it up all the way so it doesn't double filter the ALREADY filtered signal.

    The phase switch on the sub allows you to fire the sub 180 degrees out of phase with the mains. Helpful if you are placing the sub along a different wall, especially a back wall. If the sub is on the same wall as the mains, you should (usually) leave it at 0 degrees. Best way to confirm is to listen both ways - one setting will have much better bass than the other.

    Doc
    "What we do in life echoes in eternity"

    Ed Mullen (emullen@svsound.com)
    Director - Technology and Customer Relations
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    Question routing speakers through sub

    So, what you are saying is that I SHOULD route my speakers THROUGH the sub instead of directly connecting the satellites to the receiver thereby sending all channels THROUGH the sub. But, I really thought the amp would send all 100Hz and below signals to the sub since I have the amp set for 100Hz crossover......

    If this is so, is there any recommendations for adding length to Monster speaker wire i.e. electrical inline connectors - splicing kits, etc.... Will this degrade the quality of sound by splicing and adding cable?

    Thanks....

    Adam

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    One quick thing.... I just read my manual for my Onkyo receiver. It has three different modes. Mode 1 states that it sends all signals from each channel to the sub. So, I believe this mode would be the same thing as running the other speakers THROUGH the sub. In other words, the receiver handles it.....

    Let me know if I'm on track.... by the way... the 0 degree setting sounds better. Thanks...

  9. #9

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    Yes, you are doing it all electronically instead of with wires,splicing, etc. You are telling the receiver to electronically route the LFE channel AND bass below 100 Hz from the mains/center/surround TO the sub THROUGH the sub cable. Keep your other speaker wires just how they are connected now. The receiver will handle everything for you. Be careful not to overpower the PSW250 - it is pretty small for a sub.

    Doc
    "What we do in life echoes in eternity"

    Ed Mullen (emullen@svsound.com)
    Director - Technology and Customer Relations
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    Thanks for all the help, Doc. I greatly appreciate it. I don't feel I could overpower the sub though. My amp can push only 65Watts to the bass. But, I think that is RMS. Regardless, the PSW250 can handle short bursts of up to 100W, but must stay 50 Watts average.

    Let me know if I'm straying away from the facts here....

    Shouldn't the sub have an overcurrent protection or something also?

    But, as far as bass goes, I'm happy with it. Heck, I had things falling off the walls - it was cool; but, my wife, however didn't find it so amusing when her glass shelf fell and broke..... but from a guy's perspective, it was still cool!! LOL!

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    Heck, I had things falling off the walls - it was cool; but, my wife, however didn't find it so amusing when her glass shelf fell and broke..... but from a guy's perspective, it was still cool!! LOL!
    PSW250-----------Sort of like peeling out on your big wheel for the first time.
    PS3 and HD Front Projection, life is good. Too bad Blu-Ray and the PS3 are already obsolete.....

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    The PSW250 onboard amp is rated at 50 watts continuous, 100 watts peak. Because you are using a powered sub, the amp in your HT receiver has nothing to do with the power going to your sub. Also, the signal you are sending to the sub through the sub cable is tiny - milliamps.

    "PSW250-----------Sort of like peeling out on your big wheel for the first time." Good one, Scott..............now pick up your PSW1200 and go out and play nice with the big boys.

    Doc
    "What we do in life echoes in eternity"

    Ed Mullen (emullen@svsound.com)
    Director - Technology and Customer Relations
    Specialty Technologies
    SVSound

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    "PSW250-----------Sort of like peeling out on your big wheel for the first time." Good one, Scott..............now pick
    PS3 and HD Front Projection, life is good. Too bad Blu-Ray and the PS3 are already obsolete.....

  14. #14

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    psw250=Riceburnner motorcycle
    psw1200=Harley with custom work by "Ed" and the "boys"


    Scott needs to just take that thing and listen to Eddie Rabbit in some nice gothic boots ;)

    Clay

    I still love you scott...

    ps. I love my rice burner.
    Last edited by cgravil; 09-24-2002 at 12:46 AM.
    The probibility of someone watching you is directly related to the stupidity of the action in question.

  15. #15

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    Default Returning to this topic

    I previous had my PSW250 going to a Kenwood stereo receiver, with everything running through the Polk. Sounded great.
    Now that stereo receivers are pretty much passé, got myself an Onkyo SR602.
    More stuff than I'll ever use and a bear to set up.
    When I first hooked my speakers to the Onkyo, the sound was boomy and terrible. Disconnected the sub and now have the 2 speakers going directly to the Onkyo.
    Found this thread doing a Google search.
    Figured I'd hook the sub separately and fine tune it from there. I was also faced with the one RCA plug Onkyo subwoofer out to the dual LR on the 250. I will use just the L or R as suggested.

    Am I better off doing it this way, or should I go back to having the sub handle it all? problem is, that I don't know how to fine tune this to get it back to the crisp high and midrange, with appropriate bass (sub). Onkyo looks like it requires a PhD to tune (dreading it).

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    Quote Originally Posted by awilki01 View Post
    The only connection I have to my sub is the sub out on the receiver. I'm not running my satellites through it. The satellites and center are directly connected to the amp. Would going through the sub be better.....

    Just so you all know...I'm not having any apparent problems. I love my system and it sounds great (have nothing to compare to though :) ); I just want to make sure I'm getting the best sound out of my system.

    Thanks yet again...

    Adam
    Hi Adam and welcome,

    Not to throw a spanner in the works, but I have (had) the RM6000 where it advised in the manual to run your front speakers through your sub, tell your AVR to set your speakers to large for maximum blending and tell the AVR there is NO sub.

    In my opinion, this is the best connection for a satellite / subwoofer connection. Pasted below is the hook up instructions from the RM6200 manual:

    PREFERRED SUBWOOFER CONNECTION METHOD
    " Connect the left and right front speaker outputs of your receiver or amplifier to the SPEAKER LEVEL INPUTS of the powered subwoofer.
    " Connect the satellite speakers to the SPEAKER LEVEL OUTPUTS of the subwoofer (Fig. F).
    " If it is more convenient, parallel wire the subwoofer and satellites from your amplifier.
    " Connect the center channel speaker directly to the center speaker output of your receiver or amplifier.
    " Connect the surround satellites directly to the rear or surround channel outputs of your receiver or amplifier.

    Also from the manual:

    R E C E I V E R S E T U P
    All surround sound receivers allow you to match the electronics to your speakers. Refer to the owners manual of your receiver or surround
    processor to learn how this is done. To get the best performance from the RM6200, use the following settings:
    " Front Speakers - Set to “Large”
    " Center Speaker - Set to “Normal” or “Small”
    " Surround Speakers - Set to “Small”
    " Subwoofer - Set to “Off” or “None.” This setting may not make sense to you as your RM6200 system has a subwoofer, but trust us, this is the
    right setting. Select the “Subwoofer-On” setting ONLY if you are connecting the subwoofer to a subwoofer ouput (LFE) jack that
    you know to be unfiltered.

    A D J U S T I N G T H E P O W E R E D S U B W O O F E R F O R B E S T P E R F O R M A N C E (Figures H & I, page11)
    " Start with the VOLUME level at about The 12:00 position. Adjust up or down until you get sufficient bass for your personal taste. Remember
    that room position can have a very large affect on perceived bass level.
    " Turn the LOW PASS to the shaded area for best blending between the subwoofer and the satellites. You’ll know the setting is correct when
    a high quality recorded male voice sounds full without any chestiness. If vocals sound thin turn this control up—if they sound boomy turn
    it down.
    " Switch PHASE control to 180° which is the down position.

    Here is the link for your manual on this site as well:

    http://www.polkaudio.com/downloads/m...6200Manual.pdf

    Hope this helps and doesn't hinder any. To me, this connection type sounds better, but you'll have to check it for yourself.
    Regards - Gaz from the land of Oz

    Main
    Denon AVR-4520
    Emotiva MPS-2 7 Channel Amp (driving all LSi's)
    Emotiva XPA-2 (driving RTiA9s)
    Cambridge Audio Azur 851C / 850E / 752-BD
    Polk Audio Cherry LSi9s - LSiC - Cherry LSi7s - PSW505 - RTiA9s
    Panasonic TH-P60UT50A 60' 3D Plasma
    Foxtel Digital HD+
    Belkin - Pure AV PF40

    Bedroom
    Denon AVR-3808
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  17. #17

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    FYI-

    Talked to Onkyo today. They say to use a Y adapter for the 250's L/R into the Onkyo's one plug sub-woofer input.

  18. #18

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    So the concensus from Onkyo is to bypass having it all go through the Polk sub woofer and do speakers/sub woofer separately.

  19. #19

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    Quote Originally Posted by mrsnak View Post
    So the concensus from Onkyo is to bypass having it all go through the Polk sub woofer and do speakers/sub woofer separately.
    Unfortunately, all manufacturers and sales people will advise this. But Polk are the Speaker Specialist and have the best advice on how to hook up their speakers. Check this article from this site:

    http://www.polkaudio.com/education/article.php?id=19

    At the end of the day, it is your decision and if your ears are happy with as it is now, then that's OK, but you could be missing out - especially with a sub / sat system? I have my RTi10s hooked up via speaker cable as well to my PSW505 sub woofer, as to me it integrates better.

    Good luck.
    Regards - Gaz from the land of Oz

    Main
    Denon AVR-4520
    Emotiva MPS-2 7 Channel Amp (driving all LSi's)
    Emotiva XPA-2 (driving RTiA9s)
    Cambridge Audio Azur 851C / 850E / 752-BD
    Polk Audio Cherry LSi9s - LSiC - Cherry LSi7s - PSW505 - RTiA9s
    Panasonic TH-P60UT50A 60' 3D Plasma
    Foxtel Digital HD+
    Belkin - Pure AV PF40

    Bedroom
    Denon AVR-3808
    Denon DVD-3930
    Polk Audio SurroundBAR - PSW250
    Fujitsu P42HHS10W/P42HHS10A 42' HD Plasma - HD STB

  20. #20

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    Default subwoofer confusion

    Count me in as one off those who is confused.

    I'm not thrilled with the boomy bass the way I have it now (as described in post) Will read this article. All this was much simpler with my old stereo receiver. This AV thing threw a whole wrench in the works.

    The bigger problem is that most articles are wwritten assuming you are running a surrround system. I'm not.

    Still not sure I understand how best to integrate my PSW250 though this Onkyo AV receiver.

  21. #21

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    turn down the adjustment knob on sub till sound is to your approval.

  22. #22

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    Wired it all through the 250, and much better sound. Bass is crisper and midrange is back on the two front speakers.

  23. #23

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    Quote Originally Posted by mrsnak View Post
    Wired it all through the 250, and much better sound. Bass is crisper and midrange is back on the two front speakers.
    That is good news - glad you are happy with the results :D . I know it isn't a traditional way to hook up a sub, especially when you have a sub out on an AVR, but not only will it turn your sub on at low volume, it certainly blends better.

    I too have recently hooked up a old 2 channel Marantz receiver this way and the bass is nice - well and truly backed off the bass setting on the receiver too. Congrats again on your new found happiness with the sound :p .
    Regards - Gaz from the land of Oz

    Main
    Denon AVR-4520
    Emotiva MPS-2 7 Channel Amp (driving all LSi's)
    Emotiva XPA-2 (driving RTiA9s)
    Cambridge Audio Azur 851C / 850E / 752-BD
    Polk Audio Cherry LSi9s - LSiC - Cherry LSi7s - PSW505 - RTiA9s
    Panasonic TH-P60UT50A 60' 3D Plasma
    Foxtel Digital HD+
    Belkin - Pure AV PF40

    Bedroom
    Denon AVR-3808
    Denon DVD-3930
    Polk Audio SurroundBAR - PSW250
    Fujitsu P42HHS10W/P42HHS10A 42' HD Plasma - HD STB

  24. #24

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    I really think that the sub out on these AV receivers is more for enhancing the low end of movies (explosions, etc.) than to contribute to fuller music sound quality. (Unless your thing is to blow out your neighbors with Drum and Bass)
    Even that sounded too boomy in my prior configuration.

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