? about using 2 recievers

**jimi64** · 10-12-2002 10:30 PM

I apologize in advance if this is a stupid question,but anyways here it is.I just had the opportunity to buy another reciever that is the same as the one I already own.(dirt cheap and works great),and am wondering if there is anyway to use them both at the same time.1 to power the upper range of my speakers and the other to power the lower range in order to get 200 watts powering the speakers instead of 100 watts.Any info would be greatly appreciated,Thanks.

**trubluluc** · 10-13-2002 02:17 AM

Using one as a pre-amp and amp, and the second as just an amp?
Whats the pre-out/in configuration on your receivers?

-Luc

**gidrah** · 10-13-2002 03:33 AM

With a couple of Y-splits you could probably do anything 2 ch. Working off the same remote would be nice. For any digital connections, good luck. Trial and error.

If you fry something, don't blame me.

**mantis** · 10-13-2002 07:59 AM

What are you looking to acomplish?Better sound?Louder?what?

What you want to do with the 2 receivers I never even tried before.I can't say it's a good idea.Id figure out what your goal is and maybe sell both of them and put that money into a better receiver.There is something to be said about having good power.Head room is more important me.Dynamic range.....

So ask yourself the question and see what it leaves you.Id sell em and get a better model........depending on your needs.

**George Grand** · 10-13-2002 09:35 AM

Listen to Gidrah. Especially considering the "dirt cheap and works great" comment, yes you can use two receivers. Doing cool little projects like that can really increase ones awareness of what this hobby is all about.

If your speakers will allow it, you can plain vanilla bi-amp them, or "vertically" bi-amp them. Vertical bi-amp would be the cooler way to go, but ONLY if you can get the EXACT SAME receivers.

This is the "edited" part. It occured to me that I may have raised more questions in your mind than I have provided answers for. I could also say it's a religious thing (If I give a hungry man a fish, I have fed him today. If I teach him to fish, I have fed him for the rest of his life.), but seeing how that wonderful combination of CBS and the "Rev" Jerry Falwell have recently managed to set U.S./Islamic relations back about a million years, I'm going to shy away from the religious approach.

Regular bi-amping is using one stereo amp or receiver to drive the woofers in a two speaker stereo set-up, and using another amp or receiver to drive the mids and tweets of the same two speakers. The EXACT same amps are NOT required for this.

Vertical bi-amping is using one stereo amp or receiver to drive the woofer/s of ONE speaker with ONE channel of that amp, and the mids and tweets of the SAME speaker with the other channel. As you can see, two of the EXACT same amp would be required, to drive the two separate speakers equally.

My advice? Pose this question DIRECTLY to Ken Swauger. Why?

1. He is super knowledgable.
2. He is a nice man.
3. He will appreciate your desire to learn more, and will also be the first one to tell you "It was NOT a stupid question." Asking that type question in MY opinion shows a great deal of higher brain activity on your part. But that is MY opinion.
4. Ken's opinion will not be construed as "controversial." Mine will be. I don't care.

The only "normal" stereo set-ups in this house are in both my daughters bedrooms. My MODEST home theater set-up is regular bi-amped, and my stereo only rig, in my stereo only room, is dual mono.

You have fun doing whatever you're going to do. In the interim, try and find yourself a book I have recommended a dozen times on this forum. It is called "Good Sound." The author is........
Laura Dearborn. Probably make a fantastic wife. It is well written, in easy to understand terms, and will allow you to answer a great many of your own questions about sound reproduction, and psycho-acoustics. This last term is NOT acoustics for crazy people. It is the study and understanding of why we hear and interpret sounds as HUMANS. If you're not human, you can skip over that part of the book.

Tony Rome

**mantis** · 10-13-2002 10:36 AM

I believe thats what he has, the same exact receiver x2.

this should make for a good read.

**jimi64** · 10-13-2002 10:56 AM

Thanks for the input.The recievers are onkyo 787`s.The person I bought the second 1 from was in a bind,cant find a thing wrong with it.The remotes work both at same time.I was wanting to run the speaker wire(presently bi-wired) to each recvr-one for the highs one for the lows-would that be bi-amping? .Is there a way to split the signals from my DVD and CD players to each of the recvrs?Thanks-and sorry if this doesnt make sense

**George Grand** · 10-13-2002 12:16 PM

Jimi,

Stop apologizing, it makes all the sense in the world. Yes, what you appear to want to do is regular or "horizontal" bi-amp.

I'm sure the Onk's have pre-out, main-in jacks. You're going to use one as a preamp/tuner/power amp (CONTROL amp), and the other as just a power amp.

Get yourself a couple of Y-connectors with a single male to two females. Remove the U-connectors that join the pre-out/main in jacks of one of the Onk's. Insert the male ends of both Y-connectors into both of the pre out jacks. Connect RCA cables to all four of the female ends of those Y's. Take the left outputs, and connect one to each of the left main inputs on both Onk's (you'll have to remove the U-jumpers on the second Onk for this). Take the right outputs and do the same to the right main inputs. Decide which amp you want to drive the woofs, and which amp you want to drive the mids/tweets, and hook those up respectively. You're now home free. The volume control on the Onk that has the Y-connector MALE ends inserted (the CONTROL amp), now controls both power amps.

Additionally, if you want, you have now DOUBLED the amount of sources you can insert into your system. Take one more pair of RCA cables, and connect them between one set of Tape Record "OUT" jacks on the power amp Onk, and stick the other end into any unused line level input on the other Onk. NOW, if you run out of inputs on the "control"Onk, you can still plug whatever you want into the preamp stage of the power amp Onk. Whatever input you select on the power amp Onk, will be routed to its "Tape Record Out" jacks. Select whatever input you chose on the "control" Onk, and VOILA, you are there.

I hope I haven't confused you too much, but if I have, I hope the headache you get is as wicked as the one I have given myself thinking about this. In any event, HAVE FUN!!!!!

Oops, regarding your comment about splitting the signals from your DVD and cd players, cancel that idea, it is not necessary. Plug all your sources into the CONTROL amp, until you run out of inputs on it, and then switch over to the preamp section of the POWER amp Onk. Then go with the directions two paragraphs above.

Send me some aspirin if you get a chance.

George Grand (of the Jersey Grand's)

**mantis** · 10-13-2002 04:33 PM

O WOW!

**George Grand** · 10-13-2002 04:41 PM

So Dan, was that a "good" wow, or a "bad" wow?

George Grand (of the old farts Jersey Grand's)

**mantis** · 10-13-2002 04:50 PM

A good WOW George,it's the planning that got me.I enjoyed the read.I never would have came to that using the receivers like that.....it would be fun to try it out.Signal flow is the only thing I can see that anyone could faul up.Proper signal flow and bang your on the road to experiment.I wonder how this will turn out???

**George Grand** · 10-13-2002 04:58 PM

Oh how nice. And here all the while you thought I was nothing more than a pretty face.

George Grand (of the Jersey Grand's)

**goingganzo** · 10-13-2002 05:12 PM

i would think if you are going to hook them up in a 7.1 take the 6th channel from each amp and drive a seperate channel the olny problem is most surounds that polk sells you can bi amp the olny ones are the fx 1000 and i think the new ls surounds

**TroyD** · 10-13-2002 05:43 PM

Back up off George, Dan. The lovely Wendi has got dibs when and if George is available.;)

BDT

**George Grand** · 10-13-2002 06:19 PM

Let's settle down Troy. Dan appears to be very diplomatic at this point.

I am available for nothing more than comment at this time. If and when that situation changes........................................... ............
you're coming home to an empty house.

George Grand (of the Jersey Grand's)

**jimi64** · 10-13-2002 06:31 PM

Thanks George.I really appreciate the info.Gonna have to wait till next weekend to give it a try,as I`m gone during the week.

**mantis** · 10-13-2002 08:35 PM

Damn,
it's like that yooooo......ok I see where I stand on this matter.....:p

**liv4fam** · 10-13-2002 10:19 PM

Damn, that was an interesting read.
Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm............... Let's not actually do things right "how about we do it garage sale style" Bi-amping on the cheap. You have to love it in here.

**RuSsMaN** · 10-13-2002 10:40 PM

Well, coming from someone who has NOTHING bi-amped from his *one* receiver, take it at face value.

If audio and video were your life, as you think it is, perhaps you would have some input, as to how this forum member can best use what gear he has available, and get the most out of it. Sounds like a novel, AND fun idea to me.

Would Troll be an appropriate term to use here?

Cheers,
Rooster (of the garage-sale Roosters)

**liv4fam** · 10-14-2002 12:29 AM

Wait a minute.......I have an idea? Why is it so hard to stop going to pawn shops and spending 28 dollars (for you russ) or a 100 dollars every other week on low budget used stuff and then try to fake out good sound and tell everybody that you guys can compete with the big boys. I just don't get it!!!!!!!

It makes more sense to me to just save your money for a little bit and buy something that you really want like a new Carver Sunfire theater Grand 111 (since that's what you are into) or B&W CDM7's or 9's.

Wouldn't you like to own something really nice that you don't have to keep upgrading every week?Hell, anybody in here can get into Rotel, Parasound, Integra, Marantz, and so on.

I am starting to think that you do not want any better which is strange because most audiophiles including myself always strive for better.

Hey Russ, Guess What? Perfect example, I saved my money and hmmmmmmmmmmmm..........No more Yammie and no more RBH in-walls. In one week I now own B&K AVR-307, Def Tech BP2004TL Mains, Def Tech C,L,R, 2300 Center, Def Tech BPX Rears. If I can do it so can you.

Man live for today. If you are into Audio like you say you are let's see some dedication and put your best foot forward.

Don't try to twist my words around I post what I think and I help when I want to same as everybody else.

As far as this post goes, there is really nothing for me to say. I think bi-amping with two receivers is completely wrong and I wouldn't do it in my system. But hey if he wants to experiment that's cool with me it's his equipment.

**RuSsMaN** · 10-14-2002 01:50 AM

No twisting needed dip****. Obviously you are a one trick pony, and it aint' even a good trick. Same ****, different day, post SOMETHING useful. I know you can do it, I've seen it once or twice.

Save for a week to get that? Why not save for 4 weeks and do even more? Why does your buck stop there?

Oh, and the audiophile reference, MAN, that is damn near the funniest **** you've said to date. As if it has something to do with the *price* of the rig. G'night Troll.....

Cheers,
Rooster

What Polk speakers do you own again?

**TroyD** · 10-14-2002 07:27 AM

Another series of logic-free posts brought to you by the lithium-deprived liv4fam.

His logic is so full of holes it's not even worth the time to pick it apart.

It's nice to have Dan back, however I wish this one would go crawl back under his rock.

BDT

**wangotango68** · 10-14-2002 07:38 AM

it is so funny seeing you guys cover each others back.if you like
liv4fam or not is one thing but to slam every post he puts in here
is just plain stupid.i could'nt care less if any of you like me or not
but to rip on dan and the others (some here and some who have left) is stupid. maybe you too schould just start your own forum .

scott "im just telling ya":p

**TroyD** · 10-14-2002 07:48 AM

Were it a case of just having a difference of opinion, sure. However, IMO, bashing other folks (in this case jimi64) and his idea and his gear deserves a response.

Sort of like when a dude is blatantly ripping off several members of the forum, that deserves a response.

Hey, if liv4fam wants to post in a civil fashion, I'm all for it. The other day he had a series of posts that were very civil and no one said squat.

BDT

**hoosier21** · 10-14-2002 08:40 AM

Russman and BDT, buying new and paying top dallar is the ONLY way to have a good rig, when will you guys wake up?

**HBombToo** · 10-14-2002 10:50 AM

Unreal!

IMO jimi64 should follow Georges advice!

I saw somewhere you guys talking about $/Amp and it looks to me that jimi64 found an effective way in reducing this cost. Onkyo is a good piece of equipment, probably better than my h/k depending on who you talk to, plus jimi is reducing costs per amp and increasing the efficiency of his system.

Sounds to me jimi64 is a smart guy plus this will be a great learning experience.

Hell I own a Pontiac and could afford a Benz but I'd need some Lithium if somehow I justified the extra expense for a work vehicle.... Get my point? I hold onto my pennies but if I could only stay away from the NYSE I'd be doing good.

HBomb

**gidrah** · 10-15-2002 11:10 AM

We have to interrupt this otherwise quality and informative thread due to an important interruption by Liv4Fam.

If audio is your life, go buy a new one. You ain't so good at this one.

**mantis** · 10-15-2002 12:08 PM

After reading this post I see it is just as usual around here.

I wouldn't conduct this experiment nor dream it up.But It does however make for a good read,and he might come out on top.I personally think thats a good learning experience and I'm not going to knock it.

Liv4fam and everyone else has there opnions about how or why to do things.Hell Ive done the so called Getto seperates for years.I used a B&K st140 to listen to music on my rt1000p's untill I got beat swapping it out and using the receivers amps for theater.I moved the amp to Multiroom to power a pair of rt35i's.

I just don't find any sence in ripping on one another.It gets nowhere and the orginal post gets lost.Troy and Russ tried to give it 2 me on another post and I simply wasn't interested.

So can we just get past what other people think, address it with respect and see where it takes us.You all know where other technics lead...........................

**TroyD** · 10-15-2002 03:18 PM

Guilty of giving you a hard time the other night Dan, I meant it in good fun, if it was taken otherwise, I apologize.

Sure, if liv4fam (or anyone else) wants to post in a civil fashion, sure. As I said, liv4fam SEEMS to be able to post coherently off and on. If he (or anyone else) is acting like an ass, sure, I'm going to respond in kind.

In this case, would bi-amping with receivers be something I would do? No, probably not because I don't have the resources. However, jimi64 has the resources and I can't see where it would actually degrade the performance. His seemed to be a question of feasability more than anything.

BDT

**mantis** · 10-15-2002 03:36 PM

Troy,
Al in good fun is ok,I personally just get beat on going back and fourth because it just ends up nowhere.

I'm just waiting around for this to show it's head.I'm wondering how it's going to turn out.

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