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Thread: Porsche fans...

  1. #1

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    Default Porsche fans...

    ...I have a question.

    A girl at school and I got to talking the other day, and as all my conversations tend to do, we ended up talking about cars. Turns out she has a 944. After class I went out to look at it, and it is nice!

    Anyhoo, she was telling me about it, rattling off more facts than I ever expected any girl to know. Very impressive! But, at any rate, I was googling about them trying to find out some stuff and haven't come up with much.

    She said it was a 1986-1/2 (same body style as 1987) with a vertically opposed four-banger. And she said that's the only Porsche designed and built engine.

    So, I know about V8's. And V6's. And I6's, I4's, and rotary engines. And horizontally opposed boxer engines. But what the heck is a VERTICALLY opposed engine? My first assumption is that it's the same deal as a boxer engine, but rotated 90* so one bank fires up and the other bank fires down. Aside from being faced with extreme space limitations (combined with a lot of depth to work with), I fail to see the benefit of such a design.

    And I can't find anything about it online (at least not yet), so is that right?

    I was googling and came across this article about the Ferrari 512BBi which has a flat 12-cylinder according to other sites, but this particular website refers to it as having a vertically-opposed 12-cylinder. And it definitely looks to be horizontally opposed. So are the two terms just synonymous? Does the vertically-opposed refer to something other than the orientation of the cylinders?

    What gives?
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  2. #2

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    Oh, and what would be a good website/forum to read up on the 944? To come across such probably not too well known facts such as there being a 1986-1/2 model with the same body style as the 1987? I'd like to know a little bit about it.
    Quote Originally Posted by George Grand View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Jstas View Post
    Simple question. If you had a cool million bucks, what would you do with it?
    Wonder WTF happened to the rest of my money.
    My Saga
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    Rotel RCD-02
    Yamaha KX-W900U
    Sony ST-S500ES
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  3. #3

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    Well I am a big VW/Audi/Porsche nut and I used to know a lot about the different gen 944's but I'd have to look a lot of stuff up now.

    But the two terms are inline and transverse mounting of an engine.

    Inline in a car where the engine is in the front means it's inline with the transmission. Transverse mounted engines are usually (but not always) used in front drive cars where the engine appears to be mounted across the front wheels.

    The 944 had an inline or vertically mounted engine rather than a transverse or horizontally mounted engine.

    H9
    Last edited by heiney9; 10-26-2007 at 05:27 PM.
    "Appreciation of audio is a completely subjective human experience. Measurements can provide a measure of insight, but are no substitute for human judgment. Why are we looking to reduce a subjective experience to objective criteria anyway? The subtleties of music and audio reproduction are for those who appreciate it. Differentiation by numbers is for those who do not".--Nelson Pass

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    Ok, I'm still not following you. I understand perfectly (I think...) about inline and transvers. Mom's minivan's V6 is mounted transversally. And everything else we have is mounted inline.

    However, how does horizontally and vertically opposed play into the picture here?

    I think I'm just not quite grasping what you said.
    Quote Originally Posted by George Grand View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Jstas View Post
    Simple question. If you had a cool million bucks, what would you do with it?
    Wonder WTF happened to the rest of my money.
    My Saga
    Equipment Pictures

    [2CH]
    Rotel RCD-02
    Yamaha KX-W900U
    Sony ST-S500ES
    Denon DP-7F
    Parasound P/HP-850
    Parasound HCA-1000A
    Klipsch RF-35


    [In Storage]
    Yamaha CDR-HD1300
    ASL Wave 20 monoblocks
    Pro-Ject Phono Box MKII


    [Car System]
    Pioneer Premier DEH-P860MP
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    Uh, H9 has some terms a little confused there. For engine placement, it's usually longitudinally and transverse. Sometimes folks use inline to refer to placement like he mentions it.

    For engine design, the 944 engine is a vertical inline four. No opposed, since the jugs are all in the row. The boxer engines are horizontally opposed because there are cylinders on either side of the crank from each other.

    Edit: I've never seen a single-plane vertically opposed engine. Naiper made some airplane engines that used an "H" design, basically two vertically opposed engines joined together on a common output shaft.
    Last edited by John in MA; 10-26-2007 at 05:23 PM.

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    I believe 1985 was the first year of the 944 and it was basically an improved version of a 924 which was primarily all Volkswagen parts bin parts with a bit of Porsche flavor added.

    1986,1987,1988 models today leave a lot to be desired as they are sluggish and rattle boxes. My Uncle used to have a 1986 944 and it was average at best.

    The later model and last generation 944 and 944T are where it's at if you are looking for a 944 with a lot more Porsche breed. The turbo's are insanley expensive to keep running.

    The 944 was replaced by the 968 and was a 3 model year run and had fairly dismal sales. The 968 was plusher, fancier, faster and better looking than the 944 but it just didn't sell well because it was expensive especially the Cabriolet's.

    Last year 944's are nice if well maintained. The Turbo models are where the performance is but they are coslty to keep running properly.

    H9
    "Appreciation of audio is a completely subjective human experience. Measurements can provide a measure of insight, but are no substitute for human judgment. Why are we looking to reduce a subjective experience to objective criteria anyway? The subtleties of music and audio reproduction are for those who appreciate it. Differentiation by numbers is for those who do not".--Nelson Pass

    Pass Aleph 30; Eastern Electric Mini Max; Adcom GDA600; MIT S3/Z Pc; SDA 1C; Squeezebox; Tubes add soul!

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    Quote Originally Posted by John in MA View Post
    Uh, H9 has some terms a little confused there. For engine placement, it's usually longitudinally and transverse. Sometimes folks use inline to refer to placement like he mentions it.

    For engine design, the 944 engine is a vertical inline four. No opposed, since the jugs are all in the row. The boxer engines are horizontally opposed because there are cylinders on either side of the crank from each other.

    Edit: I've never seen a single-plane vertically opposed engine. Naiper made some airplane engines that used an "H" design, basically two vertically opposed engines joined together on a common output shaft.
    Again at work, posting from memory so yes it's possible I got lost in translation:o

    Fixed my terminology
    Last edited by heiney9; 10-26-2007 at 05:28 PM.
    "Appreciation of audio is a completely subjective human experience. Measurements can provide a measure of insight, but are no substitute for human judgment. Why are we looking to reduce a subjective experience to objective criteria anyway? The subtleties of music and audio reproduction are for those who appreciate it. Differentiation by numbers is for those who do not".--Nelson Pass

    Pass Aleph 30; Eastern Electric Mini Max; Adcom GDA600; MIT S3/Z Pc; SDA 1C; Squeezebox; Tubes add soul!

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    Quote Originally Posted by John in MA View Post
    Uh, H9 has some terms a little confused there. For engine placement, it's usually longitudinally and transverse. Sometimes folks use inline to refer to placement like he mentions it.

    For engine design, the 944 engine is a vertical inline four. No opposed, since the jugs are all in the row. The boxer engines are horizontally opposed because there are cylinders on either side of the crank from each other.

    Edit: I've never seen a single-bank vertically opposed engine. Naiper made some airplane engines that used an "H" design, basically two vertically opposed engines joined together on a common output shaft.
    Ok, that makes perfect sense. Yes, longitudinally mounted is the phrase I've read so many times that just wasn't coming to mind. :)

    So, I guess the 'vertically-opposed' term that she threw out wasn't entirely accurate.
    Quote Originally Posted by George Grand View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Jstas View Post
    Simple question. If you had a cool million bucks, what would you do with it?
    Wonder WTF happened to the rest of my money.
    My Saga
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    [2CH]
    Rotel RCD-02
    Yamaha KX-W900U
    Sony ST-S500ES
    Denon DP-7F
    Parasound P/HP-850
    Parasound HCA-1000A
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    Quote Originally Posted by heiney9 View Post
    I believe 1985 was the first year of the 944 and it was basically an improved version of a 924 which was primarily all Volkswagen parts bin parts with a bit of Porsche flavor added.

    1986,1987,1988 models today leave a lot to be desired as they are sluggish and rattle boxes. My Uncle used to have a 1986 944 and it was average at best.

    The later model and last generation 944 and 944T are where it's at if you are looking for a 944 with a lot more Porsche breed. The turbo's are insanley expensive to keep running.

    The 944 was replaced by the 968 and was a 3 model year run and had fairly dismal sales. The 968 was plusher, fancier, faster and better looking than the 944 but it just didn't sell well because it was expensive especially the Cabriolet's.

    Last year 944's are nice if well maintained. The Turbo models are where the performance is but they are coslty to keep running properly.

    H9
    Thanks for the info. Wiki says the 944 started in 1982 and continued to 1991 when the 968 replaced it.

    I've never really been attracted to the front-engined Porsches, so I haven't read much about them or looked at a lot of pictures, but I'm thinking I like the looks of the 944 over the 968. The 968 just looks too big and bloated to be a performance car. While the 944 might not have the best looking lines, at least it seems lighter and tighter in comparison.

    As for the 944 being a rattle box, I'd have no idea; never been in one. But maybe she'll give me a ride in it sometime. ;) :D
    Quote Originally Posted by George Grand View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Jstas View Post
    Simple question. If you had a cool million bucks, what would you do with it?
    Wonder WTF happened to the rest of my money.
    My Saga
    Equipment Pictures

    [2CH]
    Rotel RCD-02
    Yamaha KX-W900U
    Sony ST-S500ES
    Denon DP-7F
    Parasound P/HP-850
    Parasound HCA-1000A
    Klipsch RF-35


    [In Storage]
    Yamaha CDR-HD1300
    ASL Wave 20 monoblocks
    Pro-Ject Phono Box MKII


    [Car System]
    Pioneer Premier DEH-P860MP
    Memphis 16-MCA3004
    Boston Acoustic RC520

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    Quote Originally Posted by audiobliss View Post
    Thanks for the info. Wiki says the 944 started in 1982 and continued to 1991 when the 968 replaced it.

    I've never really been attracted to the front-engined Porsches, so I haven't read much about them or looked at a lot of pictures, but I'm thinking I like the looks of the 944 over the 968. The 968 just looks too big and bloated to be a performance car. While the 944 might not have the best looking lines, at least it seems lighter and tighter in comparison.

    As for the 944 being a rattle box, I'd have no idea; never been in one. But maybe she'll give me a ride in it sometime. ;) :D
    Well I was close on the year, damn the memory is the first thing to go. The later 944's are great cars and nice looking. The early 944's by now are rattle boxes part;y because of age and partly because the earlier modles just weren't assembled as nicely as the last generation.

    968's aren't poor perfromance cars but they were designed to be a little more luxurious
    Last edited by heiney9; 10-26-2007 at 05:34 PM.
    "Appreciation of audio is a completely subjective human experience. Measurements can provide a measure of insight, but are no substitute for human judgment. Why are we looking to reduce a subjective experience to objective criteria anyway? The subtleties of music and audio reproduction are for those who appreciate it. Differentiation by numbers is for those who do not".--Nelson Pass

    Pass Aleph 30; Eastern Electric Mini Max; Adcom GDA600; MIT S3/Z Pc; SDA 1C; Squeezebox; Tubes add soul!

  11. #11

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    Ahhh, I think from reading on wikipedia that she said it's a 1985-1/2, not 1986-1/2. In 1986 they changed a lot of things (alternator, audio system, interior ergonomics, and a few other things in addition to changing the mounting of the rear transaxle to reduce vibration...another reason the earlier models were so noisy?), and 1985's with those revisions are referred to as 1985-1/2 models.
    Quote Originally Posted by George Grand View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Jstas View Post
    Simple question. If you had a cool million bucks, what would you do with it?
    Wonder WTF happened to the rest of my money.
    My Saga
    Equipment Pictures

    [2CH]
    Rotel RCD-02
    Yamaha KX-W900U
    Sony ST-S500ES
    Denon DP-7F
    Parasound P/HP-850
    Parasound HCA-1000A
    Klipsch RF-35


    [In Storage]
    Yamaha CDR-HD1300
    ASL Wave 20 monoblocks
    Pro-Ject Phono Box MKII


    [Car System]
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    http://www.connactivity.com/~kgross/FAQ/944faq.html

    Here's a site with technical info and gneration info.
    "Appreciation of audio is a completely subjective human experience. Measurements can provide a measure of insight, but are no substitute for human judgment. Why are we looking to reduce a subjective experience to objective criteria anyway? The subtleties of music and audio reproduction are for those who appreciate it. Differentiation by numbers is for those who do not".--Nelson Pass

    Pass Aleph 30; Eastern Electric Mini Max; Adcom GDA600; MIT S3/Z Pc; SDA 1C; Squeezebox; Tubes add soul!

  13. #13

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    Thanks!
    Quote Originally Posted by George Grand View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Jstas View Post
    Simple question. If you had a cool million bucks, what would you do with it?
    Wonder WTF happened to the rest of my money.
    My Saga
    Equipment Pictures

    [2CH]
    Rotel RCD-02
    Yamaha KX-W900U
    Sony ST-S500ES
    Denon DP-7F
    Parasound P/HP-850
    Parasound HCA-1000A
    Klipsch RF-35


    [In Storage]
    Yamaha CDR-HD1300
    ASL Wave 20 monoblocks
    Pro-Ject Phono Box MKII


    [Car System]
    Pioneer Premier DEH-P860MP
    Memphis 16-MCA3004
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    Quote Originally Posted by audiobliss View Post
    I've never really been attracted to the front-engined Porsche
    Looks like you are attracted to hot chicks in a Porsche???
    Let us know if she gives you a "ride".:D

    There's always something about a girl in a fast car that gets
    your attention.

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    True, true. She seems to be a very nice girl. I don't know her too well...yet.
    Quote Originally Posted by George Grand View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Jstas View Post
    Simple question. If you had a cool million bucks, what would you do with it?
    Wonder WTF happened to the rest of my money.
    My Saga
    Equipment Pictures

    [2CH]
    Rotel RCD-02
    Yamaha KX-W900U
    Sony ST-S500ES
    Denon DP-7F
    Parasound P/HP-850
    Parasound HCA-1000A
    Klipsch RF-35


    [In Storage]
    Yamaha CDR-HD1300
    ASL Wave 20 monoblocks
    Pro-Ject Phono Box MKII


    [Car System]
    Pioneer Premier DEH-P860MP
    Memphis 16-MCA3004
    Boston Acoustic RC520

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    The real question is, does she know her way under the hood better than you?
    There are some women that "get it"; get their hands dirty and
    wrench their own car.

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    She said she helped her dad work on it. And she popped the hood on it, showed me the engine, and pointed stuff out. And not just pointed; she reached it and planted her hand on stuff. Wasn't afraid of it at all.

    I was very impressed. As if her face and personality weren't enough.
    Quote Originally Posted by George Grand View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Jstas View Post
    Simple question. If you had a cool million bucks, what would you do with it?
    Wonder WTF happened to the rest of my money.
    My Saga
    Equipment Pictures

    [2CH]
    Rotel RCD-02
    Yamaha KX-W900U
    Sony ST-S500ES
    Denon DP-7F
    Parasound P/HP-850
    Parasound HCA-1000A
    Klipsch RF-35


    [In Storage]
    Yamaha CDR-HD1300
    ASL Wave 20 monoblocks
    Pro-Ject Phono Box MKII


    [Car System]
    Pioneer Premier DEH-P860MP
    Memphis 16-MCA3004
    Boston Acoustic RC520

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    whip out yer klipsch! that'll impress her;)

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    Hahaha, I'm not so sure about that. She's got that Southern/Country attitude about her...and I really don't know her...but I'd peg her as being the type that doesn't really value things and price tags that much. Which is another great thing.
    Quote Originally Posted by George Grand View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Jstas View Post
    Simple question. If you had a cool million bucks, what would you do with it?
    Wonder WTF happened to the rest of my money.
    My Saga
    Equipment Pictures

    [2CH]
    Rotel RCD-02
    Yamaha KX-W900U
    Sony ST-S500ES
    Denon DP-7F
    Parasound P/HP-850
    Parasound HCA-1000A
    Klipsch RF-35


    [In Storage]
    Yamaha CDR-HD1300
    ASL Wave 20 monoblocks
    Pro-Ject Phono Box MKII


    [Car System]
    Pioneer Premier DEH-P860MP
    Memphis 16-MCA3004
    Boston Acoustic RC520

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    A friend of mine had a 944 back in the late 80s. It was either an 88 or 89. He drove it until he traded it in on a new 1993 911 (964) SC America. He had that car until he died a few years ago. I really liked his 944. Champagne colored with dark brown leather. It was a very nice driving car. So so power, handled well, had nice highway manners...but it was sitll a Porsche. It was, as someone said, the followup to the 924 which was the replacement for the 914, which was the "entry level" Porsche.

    The 968s were a totally badass FAST car. Made for high speed touring (Autobahn). I've driven a couple over the years. It wasn't a 911, but just as good in different ways. The most famous 968 was driven by Tom Cruise in "Risky Business" where he used the marketing line "Porsche...There is no substitue". He later was asked the question "Who's the U-Boat Commander?" after it was hauled out of the lake.
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    Wasn't it a 928 in Risky Business?

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    Hmmm, now I wanna watch that movie.
    Quote Originally Posted by George Grand View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Jstas View Post
    Simple question. If you had a cool million bucks, what would you do with it?
    Wonder WTF happened to the rest of my money.
    My Saga
    Equipment Pictures

    [2CH]
    Rotel RCD-02
    Yamaha KX-W900U
    Sony ST-S500ES
    Denon DP-7F
    Parasound P/HP-850
    Parasound HCA-1000A
    Klipsch RF-35


    [In Storage]
    Yamaha CDR-HD1300
    ASL Wave 20 monoblocks
    Pro-Ject Phono Box MKII


    [Car System]
    Pioneer Premier DEH-P860MP
    Memphis 16-MCA3004
    Boston Acoustic RC520

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    yep, that was a 928....give me a 96 928..i think that was the last year....345 v8 horses! i've driven an 88 944 turbo. it was cool. more tossable than the vettes of the day. i've heard that clutches can be mighty expensive.

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    Ok, back to what's really got Audio's attention... the girl!

    :D
    "Wish I didn't know now what I didn't know then." Bob Seger

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    the 944 is a great car! I know because I own one, the turbo:D. It was originally planned to be porsche's new flagship, replacing the 911. However, the purists still preferred the 911 despite the 944 outperforming it. Much of the 944 technology has made it into modern day 911's such as liquid cooling vs air cooling. The only problem I can think of w/ these cars is HIGH maintenance. They are worth it though.
    Chris

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    yeah...i say, find out what kinda music she likes, THEN whip out the Klipsch! she doesn't sound like the celine dion type:D probably some gretchen wilson will get her going;)

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    My buddy had a 928 back in high school. It seemed so fast back then. :D I remember opening the hood and only seeing engine, they must be a nightmare to work on. Plus they mount the alternator pretty low in the front, one big bump and it shears off. Don't ask me how I know. :D
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    Get her done!

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    Ooooooh, man oh man oh man oh man.

    She parked closer to the building than I did, so I ended up getting three rides between the parking lots tonight! :D

    And dang. That's NOT setup as a daily driver, though it IS her daily driver. Just riding around at 10mph in the parking lot, it was LOUD. Not unbearably loud by any stretch, but still could be annoying if you were the type to let that get on your nerves. Under any kind of steady throttle at all it was hard to talk in there. It just reverberated in the cabin. I got the feeling that there was NOTHING on ANY of the sheetmetal in the cabin, though there was.

    The seats are NOT stock! They are racing seats, though I didn't see a name on them. They're some kind of hard material with about 1/8" of comparatively soft material wrapped around them, they're deep, and they'd do a GREAT job at holding you tight in the corners. And after commenting on them, she said she goes autocrossing in it with her dad.

    Oh man, if she didn't already have a boyfriend....!!


    *is totally envious of girl, car, AND boyfriend*

    :p
    Quote Originally Posted by George Grand View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Jstas View Post
    Simple question. If you had a cool million bucks, what would you do with it?
    Wonder WTF happened to the rest of my money.
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  30. #30

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    Just a wet dream, eh!?!
    'Political Correctness'.........defined

    "A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end."

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