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Thread: Chinese toys...

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    Default Chinese toys...

    I'm loving this, pretty soon any toy "made in China" will be left on the shelf. That's what companies get for out-sourcing American jobs. These a-holes should be held accountable, as they saw fit to feed the Chinese, instead of American families. Greed, it's a terrible thing.

    Poetic justice I say.

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    There's a saying -- "You gotta take the good with the bad."

    "Made in China" is largely responsible for the "American dream." In other words, the American lifestyle depends on cheaply made foreign goods, especially China. Hell, that's why many of us on this forum can afford the audio gear we have. Otherwise, we'd only be able to afford high quality, American made boomboxes.
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    I wonder how many high school kids are going to try to get high by sucking on aqua dots.

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    I've been high for two days after chewing on a Tonka Toy dump truck.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Early B. View Post
    "Made in China" is largely responsible for the "American dream." In other words, the American lifestyle depends on cheaply made foreign goods, especially China.
    Nah. If we didn't have the "China option" American products would adjust, and corporate CEO's might have to leave a few less lights on the Christmas tree---correction, the working guy on the line making minimum wage would have a few less lights on the tree.

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    So what? Stop making it so expensive to do business here and less companies would expand overseas.

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    sure it used to be "made in Japan" was the junk of the world. although unrelated directly, I understand our youth have moved on from model glue and are now sniffing their own fermented fecal material mixed with urine, called jenk or some such thing---butt-crack now kills in more than one way.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Demiurge View Post
    So what? Stop making it so expensive to do business here and less companies would expand overseas.
    Agree 100%, but not at the expense of the American worker wage. Can you imagine the profit margin on some of this crap? Like I said, Greed rules the day in corporate America. All this "world citizen" crap is precisely what is destroying this country. It's all about "will I make the Forbes 500" list this year...?

    We can banter all day about this, it won't change a thing. I watched my father go thru this when the namesake of the real estate company he worked for, handed the torch to his yuppie son. "Build it cheap, and charge more money" became the new motto of the day. Wow, what a surprise. My dad quit shortly after the values and morals of the company were thrown aside in the name of maximum profit.
    Last edited by steveinaz; 11-09-2007 at 11:10 AM.

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    capitalism is a two way street. Why do American's work to maximize their personal profits but expect corporations and others to minimize theirs?

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    Quote Originally Posted by PhantomOG View Post
    capitalism is a two way street. Why do American's work to maximize their personal profits but expect corporations and others to minimize theirs?
    That's exactly it. I won't even get into unions, taxes, legislation against businesses and on and on. Those 3 things are huge reasons why businesses explore the overseas option. Why? Well, because the governments in other countries don't put a stranglehold on the businesses and most people are just thankful to have a job.

    Besides, you're merely seeing a shift in this country towards a more technology driven economy while other countries are starting to industrialize.

    If businesses weren't doing it somenone on this board would be starting a thread complaining about how expensive such and such an item is.

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    That is really sad. It's all about the almighty buck.
    Michael ;)
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    Quote Originally Posted by steveinaz View Post
    Nah. If we didn't have the "China option" American products would adjust, and corporate CEO's might have to leave a few less lights on the Christmas tree---correction, the working guy on the line making minimum wage would have a few less lights on the tree.
    what utopia are you living in?
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    You You know what I was reading is that with all the lead problems in China relating to kids toys, manufacturing costs across the board will double with the regulations that will be imposed on the factories making them. So, as usual with globalization, production will probably move to the next 3rd world country soon.

    I have noticed the problem here in the USA for some time. Especially with my basement construction and contractors. The simple fact in America is that everyone expects to be paid an American living wage which includes their huge SUV, huge house and wives plastic surgery. Normal Americans want a huge wage for jobs that absolutely would not deserve them. Why would I pay a contractor what they wanted to charge me... $75 an hour for some yard work in my back yard? We can get "Jose" (yes that’s his name) and pay his $15 an hour with material cost. Jose isn’t the problem... hell he’s actually getting paid pretty good. The problem is the contractor gouging manual labor at an huge inflated rate. Hell, that’s just about 2 times more then I make as an IT manager with 15 years experience behind my belt, bachelors degree and the stress of running a regional company with up times of 99.999%. That versus a dude wanting $75 an hour coming in with a wheelbarrow and spreading some gravel???


    The fact is that we are going to have some tough times in America period. People without skills making inflated wages will be the downfall of our economy and we are seeing it already with the housing market and huge levels of loans and mortgages that these people are getting foreclosed on. We are sing this happen directly right now in the American auto industry which even I as a union supported can tie directly to those unions forcing hugely inflated wages on those companies. Those companies (GM) ARE going to fold due to it and tens of thousands of people are going to lose jobs. I've been reading some pretty catastrophic theories on where we are headed pretty soon here in the US. In my example above, who’s going to hire that $75 contractor, I sure as hell didn’t, I hired Jose as most people will. That contractor is going to lose his huge SUV, his huge house and his wife is going to have to return her huge boobs. I couldn’t give a rats arss since I got a better looking back yard from Jose any ways.
    Last edited by Silverti; 11-12-2007 at 02:00 PM.

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    Toys for x-mas this year are not going to sell well.
    Max profits (personal and corporate) are everyones main goal.
    But I have the same problem with a bus driver who thinks he should be paid $60,000 a year that I do with a company that gives away US jobs. The condition of our economy is everyone's fault right now.
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    "Made in China" is largely responsible for the "American dream." In other words, the American lifestyle depends on cheaply made foreign goods, especially China. Hell, that's why many of us on this forum can afford the audio gear we have. Otherwise, we'd only be able to afford high quality, American made boomboxes.
    Very true. My brother in law owns a furniture factory in China and he said the biggest problem is keeping the cost down. Home Depot would approach him asking to make X widgets for Y dollars for the next year. At the end of the year, they would come back asking for the same X widgets but at Y-discount or they would use another manufacturer. There is enough "start up" company in China that would be more than happy to take the contract.

    On one end, the cost for resource has increase along with labor. How can the same product be cheaper? Reducing labor cost is not an option since the government is forcing employer to offer better benefits. What they are left with is to reduce the cost for resources.

    He mentioned that this is a huge problem with the US market and that's the main reasons for not dealing with US giant like Ikea,Home Depot,Target, etc..

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    The lead scare has officially gone from bad to worse. I got home from work over the weekend and my 3 year old daughter had a toy in her mouth. I politely asked her to remove it from her mouth and this was a verbatim response:
    "Why Daddy? Is this made in China?"

    I looked at my wife and started cracking up. She read the Consumer Reports and had to explain to my daughter that we had to throw out her blood pressure cuff from her fisher price doctor kit due to high lead levels. Now she asks if all her toys are made in China. I guess she doesn't want to get too attached to it and find it in the trash tomorrow!!!!!!

    Shawn

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    Quote Originally Posted by exalted512 View Post
    what utopia are you living in?
    -Cody
    I think a pretty realistic one. If there wasn't a way to get cheap products overseas, we'd need to get them here. The market adjusts to the needs of the consumer; it's hard to imagine right now but if products weren't selling CEOs wouldn't be raking in the cash they are.
    If you will it, dude, it is no dream.

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    The difference in a CEOs salary would match the difference in the salary increase from going to China to the US??? Doubtful.
    -Cody
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    Anyone know where I can buy some NOS Aqua Dots for "personal use"? ;)

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    Quote Originally Posted by BaggedLancer View Post
    Anyone know where I can buy some NOS Aqua Dots for "personal use"? ;)
    Somehow I think slipping a children's toy into your date's drink would prove problematic.
    If you will it, dude, it is no dream.

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    Quote Originally Posted by bobman1235 View Post
    Somehow I think slipping a children's toy into your date's drink would prove problematic.
    Who said anything about slipping a childrens toy in my dates drink? I was gonna put it in mine.....


    (im kidding, obviously)

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    Silverti,

    At $15.00 per hour, How did Jose support his family, pay income tax, pay liability insurance, pay workers comp., pay his licensing fee's, cover his overhead to get to the job and perform the job, etc.... Oh! and make a profit?
    I like speakers that are bigger than a small refrigerator but smaller than a big refrigerator:D

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    Quote Originally Posted by Silverti View Post
    You You know what I was reading is that with all the lead problems in China relating to kids toys, manufacturing costs across the board will double with the regulations that will be imposed on the factories making them. So, as usual with globalization, production will probably move to the next 3rd world country soon.

    I have noticed the problem here in the USA for some time. Especially with my basement construction and contractors. The simple fact in America is that everyone expects to be paid an American living wage which includes their huge SUV, huge house and wives plastic surgery. Normal Americans want a huge wage for jobs that absolutely would not deserve them. Why would I pay a contractor what they wanted to charge me... $75 an hour for some yard work in my back yard? We can get "Jose" (yes thatís his name) and pay his $15 an hour with material cost. Jose isnít the problem... hell heís actually getting paid pretty good. The problem is the contractor gouging manual labor at an huge inflated rate. Hell, thatís just about 2 times more then I make as an IT manager with 15 years experience behind my belt, bachelors degree and the stress of running a regional company with up times of 99.999%. That versus a dude wanting $75 an hour coming in with a wheelbarrow and spreading some gravel???


    The fact is that we are going to have some tough times in America period. People without skills making inflated wages will be the downfall of our economy and we are seeing it already with the housing market and huge levels of loans and mortgages that these people are getting foreclosed on. We are sing this happen directly right now in the American auto industry which even I as a union supported can tie directly to those unions forcing hugely inflated wages on those companies. Those companies (GM) ARE going to fold due to it and tens of thousands of people are going to lose jobs. I've been reading some pretty catastrophic theories on where we are headed pretty soon here in the US. In my example above, whoís going to hire that $75 contractor, I sure as hell didnít, I hired Jose as most people will. That contractor is going to lose his huge SUV, his huge house and his wife is going to have to return her huge boobs. I couldnít give a rats arss since I got a better looking back yard from Jose any ways.
    Some of what you say is true and I agree with, but you also have a very elitist attitude about some of it. A lot of manual labor jobs are dangerous and take a toll on the do-ers bodies. A lot of them require strength that the average person does not have, or a skill which while not educated may be difficult to master. DOn't assume that because someone didn't get a degree or do well in school that the task they perform is not worthy of decent payment.

    I have a degree and work with computers and get paid well to do it, but I'm not gonna say that just because someone is uneducated means they don't deserve a decent paycheck. I see those guys climbing trees wiht a chainsaw and risking their ass; I see 40 year old manual laborers who can't work anymore because their back is shot and they have little to fall back on. Just because Jose is stupid enough to do it for 3 bucks doesn't mean that's what it's worth.

    Beyond that, can you BLAME Joe American for wanting to charge what he thinks he can get? COntractors rake in the dough for the most part, just because you sent them packing doesn't mean they'l go poor and lose all their stereotypes that you love to heap on them. They'll just go to the next house and make their money. Just try and keep in mind Jose doens't have to pay taxes and probably lives in a small apartment with 9 of his brothers (if you can heap on the American stereotypes, I'll try the mexican ones)
    If you will it, dude, it is no dream.

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    Quote Originally Posted by bobman1235 View Post
    Some of what you say is true and I agree with, but you also have a very elitist attitude about some of it. A lot of manual labor jobs are dangerous and take a toll on the do-ers bodies. A lot of them require strength that the average person does not have, or a skill which while not educated may be difficult to master. Donít assume that because someone didn't get a degree or do well in school that the task they perform is not worthy of decent payment.

    I have a degree and work with computers and get paid well to do it, but I'm not gonna say that just because someone is uneducated means they don't deserve a decent paycheck. I see those guys climbing trees with a chainsaw and risking their ass; I see 40 year old manual laborers who can't work anymore because their back is shot and they have little to fall back on. Just because Jose is stupid enough to do it for 3 bucks doesn't mean that's what it's worth.


    Iím not elitist about it, Iím a vested Teamster. 6 years doing a job that considered one of the toughest jobs out there of which .001% of the people in bulk quantity (Tens of thousands a year) didnít last 6 years. I did that job to pay for school. 5 days a week, 5 hours a day.

    But you are getting extreme with your rationalization that my ďyard guyĒ should be making a decent check. These people deserve a living wage in America with this kind of job that doesnít include $300000 houses, $40000 hummers and boobs for their wives. You basically imply here that I should be paying people big bucks for jobs that I can do myself and chose not to because I can find a guy for $15 an hour to do it and so that I can spend my free time with my kids. This isnít communist Russia or a social state.

    To boot, this goes into the whole American phenomenon of unskilled low paid workers who walk around with cell phones, smoke 2 packs of cigs and a 6 pack a day and donít feed their kids.

    Just think, Iím a liberal sociologist and I can take this position.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Silverti View Post
    Iím not elitist about it, Iím a vested Teamster. 6 years doing a job that considered one of the toughest jobs out there of which .001% of the people in bulk quantity (Tens of thousands a year) didnít last 6 years. I did that job to pay for school. 5 days a week, 5 hours a day.
    Oh the irony.

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    [QUOTE=Silverti;732140]
    I have noticed the problem here in the USA for some time. Especially with my basement construction and contractors. The simple fact in America is that everyone expects to be paid an American living wage which includes their huge SUV, huge house and wives plastic surgery. Normal Americans want a huge wage for jobs that absolutely would not deserve them. Why would I pay a contractor what they wanted to charge me... $75 an hour for some yard work in my back yard? We can get "Jose" (yes that’s his name) and pay his $15 an hour with material cost. Jose isn’t the problem... hell he’s actually getting paid pretty good. The problem is the contractor gouging manual labor at an huge inflated rate. Hell, that’s just about 2 times more then I make as an IT manager with 15 years experience behind my belt, bachelors degree and the stress of running a regional company with up times of 99.999%. That versus a dude wanting $75 an hour coming in with a wheelbarrow and spreading some gravel???
    QUOTE]


    Jose' doen't have insurance, doesn't pay taxes, doesn't have a drivers license
    or have insurance on his vehicle. His kids are going to the school you're paying taxes on.
    If anyone in his family gets sick, the hospital gets stuck with the emergency room bill,
    which they then pass along to the insured.
    Joe Contracter has to pay all that stuff. He doesn't make $75 an hour, that's
    the gross income. You cost your company a burden rate a lot higher than
    what you bring home. $75 an hour is high as hell, but old Jose aint as cheap
    as you think. Your just paying out a different pocket.
    Ever have one of those guys hit your car? They drive away, or run if it's not drivable.
    Then see who eats the cost. The roadways are full of them in Dallas.
    That's why my car insurance doubled when I came down here. One Jose seems like a
    good idea. A couple of thousand will change your view.
    A half million ( Dallas/ Ft. Worth area) will leave you gasping for air.

    Same goes for Chinese imports. WE are being overwhelmed with the stuff.
    Don't think that stuff won't bite us in the ass in the long run.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Silverti View Post
    But you are getting extreme with your rationalization that my ďyard guyĒ should be making a decent check. These people deserve a living wage in America with this kind of job that doesnít include $300000 houses, $40000 hummers and boobs for their wives. You basically imply here that I should be paying people big bucks for jobs that I can do myself and chose not to because I can find a guy for $15 an hour to do it and so that I can spend my free time with my kids. This isnít communist Russia or a social state.

    I don't think they deserve these things you think they get for yard work, I was just saying you shouldn't be dismissive of uneducated people which I thought you were. Workers will make what people are willing to pay them or they won't hav ea job; if they choose to use whatever salary they make to buy hummers or boobs what is it any of your business? You have a bitterness about these workers that I don't understand; I almost admire them - they're somehow able to afford these things, good for them! I certainly can't afford them. I guess I just don't get your argument. The only time I'm bitter about laborers making too much money is when unions are involved, because they're strongarming business into paying them what they don't deserve.
    If you will it, dude, it is no dream.

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    The only contractors making the big bucks around here are the ones with 20 Mexicans working for them under the table. The ones that really do the work are struggling. Wanna bet the guys with the Mexican workers are really reporting their income correctly?

    I can't speak for the situation up North, but down here it's out of control.

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    Ok ok ok…

    Let’s get off the immigrant thing I used as an example. Let’s replace it with “Joe” my 15 year old neighbor kid who’s looking for extra work or my younger brother and law who wants to make a little extra on the side for Xmas.

    This wasn’t meant to be a "immigrant or Mexican" discussion.

    Aka why would I pay some extra inflated contractor $75 when I can get my neighbor kid to do it for $15? This field of work IS NOT a field of work for people who expect an inflated living wage.
    Last edited by Silverti; 11-12-2007 at 07:33 PM.

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