Near Reference, Giant Killer CDP?

[phuz]

I'm looking to replace my Music Hall CD 25.2 with a permenant fixture in my main 2 channel rig. Not interested in tube players. Just a good old fashioned player that will get me near reference level quality, best bang for the buck. HDCD, SACD, etc. would all be added bonuses and would be nice. This will most likely be a used purchase, and would prefer to stay >$1k, but would go up to $1,500 for the right player. I've been looking at:

Rotel RCD-1072
Cambridge 740c/840c
NAD M5 Master Series
Lexicon RT-10 (if I can find one for the right $$$)

Does anyone have experience with the older Classe, Music Fidelity, and other not-quite-vintage-but-good-deal-on-audiogon players? Experience with Roksan? What's with YBA? Other suggestions?

Thanks.

[marvda1]

any thought about an outboard dac?

[dkg999]

I would consider buying the DAC that's in the FM right now, and use your current CDP as the transport. Just a thought!

[phuz]

any thought about an outboard dac?

I would consider it for sure, but would the Music Hall CD 25.2 be a good enough transport for a high end DAC? The 25.2 is good, but I'm looking for tip top quality on a budget. I need a best kept secret... a CDP that I can use without questioning whether or not my source is an issue so I can have fun mixing and matching and demoing all of the other parts of the system.

In other words, as I enjoy the hobby... I don't want to be bothered with swapping or changing or questioning CD players or sources. I want that to be a staple, because I will for sure be swapping just about every other part of a 2 channel rig including tubes.

[heiney9]

I would consider buying the DAC that's in the FM right now, and use your current CDP as the transport. Just a thought!

+1 great idea as that DAC is very nice and would serve you well for a long time using your Music Hall as the transport.

[pearsall001]

I ordered the Cambridge Audio 840C & it should be here early Jan. I'm going to do a head to head with my Tube Audio DAC. I simply love the DAC, but my curiousity got the best of me after reading all the great things about the 840C. We'll see what happens.

[dkg999]

I look forward to your review of the 840C! I had the 640C v1 for a while, great CDP, but the Wolfson DAC didn't mesh well with my Magnepan's. I just picked up a 540D v2 for an upconverting DVD player. I like the build quality vs price point of the Cambridge Audio gear.

Now back to the real topic of this thread!

[schwarcw]

phuz,

Buy this one. I have heard the Rega Apollo a number of times at my friends house. It's a great player. There are a lot of audiophile reviews proclaiming the great sound of this unit. Tom's price is good for this great piece.

[venomclan]

Just to throw out another option:

I read a review in TAS this past February on the Music Hall CD 25.2. They found that an upgrade to the stock power cord made a very large difference in performance of this unit if my memory serves me correct. I am not sure what pc they used or if you believe that they can make a difference, but it was pointed out in this unit and not the others reviewed against it, including the Rega Apollo and Saturn.
Venom

[Zero]

To my knowledge - there is no affordable player on planet earth that can rightfully adorn the markings "Giant Killer". The same goes for "reference". So pulling things back to reality a bit.. I'd encourage you to look at a player from a brand that has proven consistency, reliability, and great performance.

The first budget player that pops to mind is the NAIM CD5i. In fact, Naim will be releasing an updated version of this player in just a few months. Apparently this player will offer 90% of the performance of the CD5 - their $3000 player. I'd imagine that the biggest sacrifice you'll be making on the new CD5 would be the inability to use am external flat-cap power supply. No biggy.

There are plenty of players out there - enough to have you spinning your wheels. Naim is what would make MY short list.

[dorokusai]

DAC = Band-Aid. F NAIM.

[F1nut]

DAC = Band-Aid. F NAIM.

Tell us how you really feel.....lol

[hearingimpared]

I would consider buying the DAC that's in the FM right now, and use your current CDP as the transport. Just a thought!

Not that I'm doing a shameless comercial here but I agree. The transport on that MH is supposed to be very good and pair that with the DAC and I think you are good to go.

[hearingimpared]

Just to throw out another option:

I read a review in TAS this past February on the Music Hall CD 25.2. They found that an upgrade to the stock power cord made a very large difference in performance of this unit if my memory serves me correct. I am not sure what pc they used or if you believe that they can make a difference, but it was pointed out in this unit and not the others reviewed against it, including the Rega Apollo and Saturn.
Venom

That was a $350 power cord. It doesn't make sense to me to buy something more than half the price of the CDP that doesn't do anything in-particular to the signal.

I was hot-to-trot on the MH 25.2 when it first came out but when I read that Sally R. had to put an after market power cable on it to make it shine, I stayed away from it.

Phuz you may want to look at Underwood's upgrades to the 25.2, they are only about $200 and are supposed to make the player sound more like a $1500 to $2000 player. Here's the link to them, scroll down and you will find the upgrade.

[Zero]

Mark - Hah! What happened to your Naim kool-aid? Found a severed bird head in the CD tray?

[heiney9]

DAC = Band-Aid. F NAIM.

A DAC is no more a band aid than using a separate pre-amp and amp in place of an integrated (same concept). With the popularity of music servers there are more mediocre DAC's built to a price point than ever before, but the Timbre isn't one of those. Stand alone DAC's are underrated and are a viable and smart solution for his situation.

YMMV

H9

[rskarvan]

An outboard DAC does wonderful things over a CD player. The ADCOM GDA700 DAC is balanced and includes jitter-reduction circuitry. These Adcom DACs are VERY GOOD and can be found used for right around $300.

[Early B.]

DAC = Band-Aid.

You said what's been in my head. Add transports and DIPs to the list of band-aids. A good CDP means it has a good DAC in it. No need to waste money on a separate one unless you're into stuff like computer rigs.

[heiney9]

You said what's been in my head. Add transports and DIPs to the list of band-aids. A good CDP means it has a good DAC in it. No need to waste money on a separate one unless you're into stuff like computer rigs.

Certainly true in some instance's but also not true in some instances. There is no doubt there are cdp's that equal or best some of the stand alone dac's out there but they are probably in the top 5% of units sold.

As usual different strokes for left handed people, just don't want his to arbitrarily dismiss the addition of a high end DAC when it could be the answer to his situation.

You and Doro are pretty emphatic with your dismissal of stand alone DAC's and as I've stated before there are no absolutes in this hobby. And to say DAC's are only good for computer rigs is laughable ;).

H9

[heiney9]

Using your logic a pre-amp/amp combination is a band aid to getting a really good integrated amp . Certainly there are great integrated's that sound better than certain separates but that's a general exception rather than the rule. Same goes for outboard DAC's.

H9

[dkg999]

Another alternative would be to buy the Jolida 100 CDP for sale in the FM. Change the tubes, change the sound, play until you get the sound you likey! I'm pretty happy with my Jolida 100 CDP!

[heiney9]

That's what's great about his place there are no less than 6 or so suggestions to the problem, all of them perfectly good. :D:)

[Ricardo]

I am sure there are CDP's that sound better than any stand alone DAC, but I think the key here is cost. It seems to me that using a cheap CDP as a transport and a decent stand alone DAC will give you the sound of a much more expensive CDP.
In my case, I was very happy with the Raysonic CD-128, but the DAC thread made me give it a try; I got a Musical Fidelity DAC, and it sounded as good as the Raysonic. I got a cheap Rotel to use as transport and sold the Raysonic. For about 1/2 the investment I get the same sound. Good move I think.

[madmax]

DAC = Band-Aid.

Cough, cough, cobull****ugh, cough... ;)
madmax

[hearingimpared]

I don't see where a component specifically made to for digital to analog conversion can be called a band-aid as compared to a full blown CDP. If the proper attention is paid to the DAC in a CDP, it will sound awesome but will also cost a hell of a lot more money.

I am very happy with the sound of my Oppo transport/Timbre DAC combo, the only reason I've changed it is because I've found that I love the sound of tubes and just placing a tube buffer in line just doesn't have the same magic as the CD 168.

I've heard tube DACs under $1k and they don't compare IMHO to the sound of the Timbre DAC. I've not heard a DAC SS or tube under $2k that is even close in comparisom to the sound of the Timbre DAC, Jolida inclueded.

I listened to several digital players in the high end, namely the Tri Vista, kW, & Cary players and they beat the sound, with the tubes engaged, of the Timbre DAC. All three of those players are considerably more money than the used Timbre DAC.

The DAC in the 168 was where a tremendous amount of focus was placed by the designers and manufacturer. Match that with the tubes run in pure Class A and yes indeed I wanted that sound as it was close to my vinyl.

[Early B.]

I'll bet 6 months from now half of you guys with DACS will have purchased CDPs and talking about how your new CDP sounds better than the DAC/transport combo you owned.

Same is true with separates vs. int. amps. Same with full range vs. bookshelf/sub combos. In the end, it doesn't really matter, as long as you enjoy the sound coming out of the speakers. Any road will get you there, even Boombox Blvd.

[venomclan]

That was a $350 power cord. It doesn't make sense to me to buy something more than half the price of the CDP that doesn't anything in-particular to the signal.

I was hot-to-trot on the MH 25.2 when it first came out but when I read that Sally R. had to put a power on it to make it shine, I shined away from it.

Phuz you may want to look at Underwood's upgrades to the 25.2, they are only about $200 and are supposed to make the player sound more like a $1500 to $2000 player. Here's the link to them, scroll down and you will find the upgrade.

I agree $350 is a lot for a $600 player. But if I had the player, I would try to experiment with the cheaper PS audio PC and see what they do. It must be a pain demoing pc's, but may be worht the time and $ not spending the extra $. The UW mods seems cool also.
Venom

[rskarvan]

You said what's been in my head. Add transports and DIPs to the list of band-aids. A good CDP means it has a good DAC in it. No need to waste money on a separate one unless you're into stuff like computer rigs.

Also, a good DIP is not a band aide either. Unless you have a very-high-end cd transport, a good DIP will turn a mediocre source component into a quality transport. Bits may be bits but timing is everything.

[hearingimpared]

EB what is a DIP.

[Early B.]

EB what is a DIP.

http://www.monarchyaudio.com/DIP.htm