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  1. #61

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    Quote Originally Posted by GV#27 View Post
    Yes it is let me explain.Im using an active crossover(xover point is 2k) and normally the output of the amplifier is directly conected to the driver.But if any DC offset where present it might destroy the tweeter.Therefore I use a large enough cap that will not have any effect on the slope of the crossover but will block any DC.
    Thats smart thinking. with an 8ohm tweeter you could probably use a 20, and be happy with no adverse slope to the tweets. With a 4ohm tweeter you would have to run about 40 like you posted. keep in mind you may want to try a polarity sway to deal with the phase issue of a 6db sloped bass blocker;)
    Please. Please contact me a ben62670 @ yahoo.com. Make sure to include who you are, and you are from Polk so I don't delete your email. Also I am now physically unable to work on any projects. If you need help let these guys know. There are many people who will help if you let them know where you are.
    Thanks
    Ben

  2. #62

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    How many tweeters have you all ran across that were damaged because of DC voltage?

    Blown because of overdriven, yes, but DC offset? I have never seen one.
    Monitor 7b's front
    Monitor 4's surround
    Frankinpolk Center (2 mw6503's with peerless tweeter)
    M10's back surround
    Hafler-200 driving patio Daytons
    Tempest-X 15" DIY sub w/ Rythmik 350A plate amp
    Dayton 12" DVC w/ Rythmik 350a plate amp
    Harman/Kardon AVR-635
    Oppo 981hd
    Denon upconvert DVD player
    Jennings Research (vintage and rare)
    Mit RPTV WS-55513
    Tosh HD-XA1
    B&K AV5000


    Dont BAN me Bro!!!!

  3. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by jakelm View Post
    How many tweeters have you all ran across that were damaged because of DC voltage?

    Blown because of overdriven, yes, but DC offset? I have never seen one.
    That is because most speakers use passive crossovers so they will have a capacitor in series with the tweeter.Therefore will not see any DC.In an active set up DC can be a problem so it is wise to add the cap.

  4. #64
    GV#27
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    Quote Originally Posted by ben62670 View Post
    Thats smart thinking. with an 8ohm tweeter you could probably use a 20, and be happy with no adverse slope to the tweets. With a 4ohm tweeter you would have to run about 40 like you posted. keep in mind you may want to try a polarity sway to deal with the phase issue of a 6db sloped bass blocker;)
    The tweeter is actually 6 ohms and the cap is large enough that it does not add any phase shift as the tweeters output is already more than -24db down before the cap begins to roll off.

  5. #65

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    Quote Originally Posted by GV#27 View Post
    That is because most speakers use passive crossovers so they will have a capacitor in series with the tweeter.Therefore will not see any DC.In an active set up DC can be a problem so it is wise to add the cap.
    I understand. But in an active setup , the same basic xover design is used, right, just within the electronic components?




    Nevermind, I'll go sit in my corner and read.
    Monitor 7b's front
    Monitor 4's surround
    Frankinpolk Center (2 mw6503's with peerless tweeter)
    M10's back surround
    Hafler-200 driving patio Daytons
    Tempest-X 15" DIY sub w/ Rythmik 350A plate amp
    Dayton 12" DVC w/ Rythmik 350a plate amp
    Harman/Kardon AVR-635
    Oppo 981hd
    Denon upconvert DVD player
    Jennings Research (vintage and rare)
    Mit RPTV WS-55513
    Tosh HD-XA1
    B&K AV5000


    Dont BAN me Bro!!!!

  6. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by jakelm View Post
    nevermind, I'll go sit in my corner and read.
    There will be a test in the morning:D

    Quote Originally Posted by F1nut View Post
    You'd have to go with a 20 and 23 as Sonicap's largest is 30uF. Probably run $50-$60.
    Ouch,I think I will try and tough it out with the nasty $8 Solens for a while longer.

  7. #67

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    Tubes can introduce a big failure.

  8. #68

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    If there are any issues with an amp/XO popping, or clipping the tweeter sees the brunt of it. I would for HaHa's try reversing the polarity.
    Please. Please contact me a ben62670 @ yahoo.com. Make sure to include who you are, and you are from Polk so I don't delete your email. Also I am now physically unable to work on any projects. If you need help let these guys know. There are many people who will help if you let them know where you are.
    Thanks
    Ben

  9. #69
    GV#27
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    Quote Originally Posted by ben62670 View Post
    I would for HaHa's try reversing the polarity.
    Yes I have tried it and got the results expected when reversing polarity of a 4th order LR crossover,a big nasty null caused by the midrange and tweeter being 180 degrees out of phase with each other.As mentioned the cap begins to operate at a low enough frequency as to make its phase shift insignificant.

    Anyway sorry for the derail Ben.

  10. #70

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    Hey man we are still talking caps:D Any time we can share its a good thing:)
    Please. Please contact me a ben62670 @ yahoo.com. Make sure to include who you are, and you are from Polk so I don't delete your email. Also I am now physically unable to work on any projects. If you need help let these guys know. There are many people who will help if you let them know where you are.
    Thanks
    Ben

  11. #71

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    Ben . GV.

    Quick question, but since I have you 2 here, I know you guys would know, I have always wondered, and by looking at the build, I dont think so, but in the basic 2nd order (I believe) xovers like in the older monitor series Polks (monitor 7's, 5's, 5jr;s..etc). Is there any part (cap/coil) that rolls off the highs at the top end, or is that the tweeter rolling off naturally? There is nothing acting as a Hp filter, other than the inductor for the mids, right?

    The only reson I ask is becuase after changing the caps from Mylar to Solen, I noticed (yes an audible smoother difference) but also what seems like a HP slope in the higher Fr. You know how when listening to a bad recording there is a slight hisss, well after changing the caps out, I noticed on the same recording, the hiss wasnt as pronounced, alot more quiet. Like the top end had been cut down.
    Last edited by jakelm; 01-10-2008 at 01:12 AM.
    Monitor 7b's front
    Monitor 4's surround
    Frankinpolk Center (2 mw6503's with peerless tweeter)
    M10's back surround
    Hafler-200 driving patio Daytons
    Tempest-X 15" DIY sub w/ Rythmik 350A plate amp
    Dayton 12" DVC w/ Rythmik 350a plate amp
    Harman/Kardon AVR-635
    Oppo 981hd
    Denon upconvert DVD player
    Jennings Research (vintage and rare)
    Mit RPTV WS-55513
    Tosh HD-XA1
    B&K AV5000


    Dont BAN me Bro!!!!

  12. #72

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    Theoretically the tweeter should roll of naturally. But the cap can limit the highs. Also speaker cables/IC's have capacitance that can roll of the highs too.
    Please. Please contact me a ben62670 @ yahoo.com. Make sure to include who you are, and you are from Polk so I don't delete your email. Also I am now physically unable to work on any projects. If you need help let these guys know. There are many people who will help if you let them know where you are.
    Thanks
    Ben

  13. #73

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    Quote Originally Posted by ben62670 View Post
    Theoretically the tweeter should roll of naturally. But the cap can limit the highs. Also speaker cables/IC's have capacitance that can roll of the highs too.
    Thanks I edited my post and added more info on my experience, sorry. I didnt change the cables just the caps and resistors. Your saying a cap can effect the top end of the Fr band?
    Monitor 7b's front
    Monitor 4's surround
    Frankinpolk Center (2 mw6503's with peerless tweeter)
    M10's back surround
    Hafler-200 driving patio Daytons
    Tempest-X 15" DIY sub w/ Rythmik 350A plate amp
    Dayton 12" DVC w/ Rythmik 350a plate amp
    Harman/Kardon AVR-635
    Oppo 981hd
    Denon upconvert DVD player
    Jennings Research (vintage and rare)
    Mit RPTV WS-55513
    Tosh HD-XA1
    B&K AV5000


    Dont BAN me Bro!!!!

  14. #74

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    Has any of your testing revealed the same thing? Different caps effecting the highs in that way? Limiting the reach of the tweeter?
    Monitor 7b's front
    Monitor 4's surround
    Frankinpolk Center (2 mw6503's with peerless tweeter)
    M10's back surround
    Hafler-200 driving patio Daytons
    Tempest-X 15" DIY sub w/ Rythmik 350A plate amp
    Dayton 12" DVC w/ Rythmik 350a plate amp
    Harman/Kardon AVR-635
    Oppo 981hd
    Denon upconvert DVD player
    Jennings Research (vintage and rare)
    Mit RPTV WS-55513
    Tosh HD-XA1
    B&K AV5000


    Dont BAN me Bro!!!!

  15. #75

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    Quote Originally Posted by jakelm View Post
    Has any of your testing revealed the same thing? Different caps effecting the highs in that way? Limiting the reach of the tweeter?
    Mostly wires have limited the highs. Too heavy a gage kills highs especially with lower power applications. Caps have also effected the highs. I don't have a lot of experience with this, but the Dayton's clearly reach a little higher than the Solen's. Hold off any ideas you are having unless you just want to bite the bullet, and get the SoniCap's at $20 each for 12's. I think this is the route I will be taking on my custom SDA's.
    Please. Please contact me a ben62670 @ yahoo.com. Make sure to include who you are, and you are from Polk so I don't delete your email. Also I am now physically unable to work on any projects. If you need help let these guys know. There are many people who will help if you let them know where you are.
    Thanks
    Ben

  16. #76

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    Quote Originally Posted by ben62670 View Post
    Mostly wires have limited the highs. Too heavy a gage kills highs especially with lower power applications.
    First I hear of this. I always believed that you cant go wrong with a heavier guage wire.

    Caps have also effected the highs. I don't have a lot of experience with this, but the Dayton's clearly reach a little higher than the Solen's. Hold off any ideas you are having unless you just want to bite the bullet, and get the SoniCap's at $20 each for 12's. I think this is the route I will be taking on my custom SDA's.
    Same here, $60 for 3.
    Monitor 7b's front
    Monitor 4's surround
    Frankinpolk Center (2 mw6503's with peerless tweeter)
    M10's back surround
    Hafler-200 driving patio Daytons
    Tempest-X 15" DIY sub w/ Rythmik 350A plate amp
    Dayton 12" DVC w/ Rythmik 350a plate amp
    Harman/Kardon AVR-635
    Oppo 981hd
    Denon upconvert DVD player
    Jennings Research (vintage and rare)
    Mit RPTV WS-55513
    Tosh HD-XA1
    B&K AV5000


    Dont BAN me Bro!!!!

  17. #77

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    Quote Originally Posted by jakelm View Post
    First I hear of this. I always believed that you cant go wrong with a heavier guage wire.
    Sorry dude.
    Let me clarify what I said a bit. Heavy gage super fine strand dogs the highs in a bad way. I have some single strand AQ's in a star quad config which equals 11ga, and sound very nice. IMHO it is skin effect, and bad insulation that is the real culprit. Now on subs bigger is better.
    Please. Please contact me a ben62670 @ yahoo.com. Make sure to include who you are, and you are from Polk so I don't delete your email. Also I am now physically unable to work on any projects. If you need help let these guys know. There are many people who will help if you let them know where you are.
    Thanks
    Ben

  18. #78

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    Default Is there a crossover mod for the Polk R15 speakers?

    oops
    Receiver - Onkyo HT-R340
    Front - Pioneer S-HF21
    Center -Onkyo SKC-340C
    Surround Back - Polk R15 <--Ticket to club polk
    Subwoofer - Onkyo SKW-340

  19. #79

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    Quote Originally Posted by ben62670 View Post
    Sorry dude.
    Let me clarify what I said a bit. Heavy gage super fine strand dogs the highs in a bad way. I have some single strand AQ's in a star quad config which equals 11ga, and sound very nice. IMHO it is skin effect, and bad insulation that is the real culprit. Now on subs bigger is better.

    Gotcha. Single strand that equals 11awg, must be hard to manage?
    Monitor 7b's front
    Monitor 4's surround
    Frankinpolk Center (2 mw6503's with peerless tweeter)
    M10's back surround
    Hafler-200 driving patio Daytons
    Tempest-X 15" DIY sub w/ Rythmik 350A plate amp
    Dayton 12" DVC w/ Rythmik 350a plate amp
    Harman/Kardon AVR-635
    Oppo 981hd
    Denon upconvert DVD player
    Jennings Research (vintage and rare)
    Mit RPTV WS-55513
    Tosh HD-XA1
    B&K AV5000


    Dont BAN me Bro!!!!

  20. #80

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    Not really. Its really just like regular romex wire for a house.
    Please. Please contact me a ben62670 @ yahoo.com. Make sure to include who you are, and you are from Polk so I don't delete your email. Also I am now physically unable to work on any projects. If you need help let these guys know. There are many people who will help if you let them know where you are.
    Thanks
    Ben

  21. #81

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    Now, does this guage opinion, apply to IC's or speaker wire? Or both? In other words, what would be a better fisrt upgrade, my Monster IC's or my speaker cable? And of corse all of this depends on how good your source is.
    Monitor 7b's front
    Monitor 4's surround
    Frankinpolk Center (2 mw6503's with peerless tweeter)
    M10's back surround
    Hafler-200 driving patio Daytons
    Tempest-X 15" DIY sub w/ Rythmik 350A plate amp
    Dayton 12" DVC w/ Rythmik 350a plate amp
    Harman/Kardon AVR-635
    Oppo 981hd
    Denon upconvert DVD player
    Jennings Research (vintage and rare)
    Mit RPTV WS-55513
    Tosh HD-XA1
    B&K AV5000


    Dont BAN me Bro!!!!

  22. #82

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    Quote Originally Posted by jakelm View Post
    Now, does this guage opinion, apply to IC's or speaker wire? Or both? In other words, what would be a better fisrt upgrade, my Monster IC's or my speaker cable? And of corse all of this depends on how good your source is.
    In my experience get rid of anything Monster. Start with speaker cable and then IC's, but if you can do both do it. Either get something Ben makes (support a Polkie) or go with Signal Cable (esp. for IC's).

    H9
    "Appreciation of audio is a completely subjective human experience. Measurements can provide a measure of insight, but are no substitute for human judgment. Why are we looking to reduce a subjective experience to objective criteria anyway? The subtleties of music and audio reproduction are for those who appreciate it. Differentiation by numbers is for those who do not".--Nelson Pass

    Pass Aleph 30; Eastern Electric Mini Max; Adcom GDA600; MIT S3/Z Pc; SDA 1C; Squeezebox; Tubes add soul!

  23. #83

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    From experience, Ben's interconnects made a nice difference in my system. They replaced a almost $400 pair of interconnects.
    "He who fights with monsters should look to it that he himself does not become a monster. And when you gaze long into an abyss the abyss also gazes into you." Friedrich Nietzsche

  24. #84

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    I thought my 7' 16awg white "Lowes" lamp cord was doing ok.

    Here is something similar @ RatShack

    http://www.radioshack.com/product/in...entPage=search

    Seemed to work better than the more expensive.
    Last edited by jakelm; 01-10-2008 at 10:25 AM.
    Monitor 7b's front
    Monitor 4's surround
    Frankinpolk Center (2 mw6503's with peerless tweeter)
    M10's back surround
    Hafler-200 driving patio Daytons
    Tempest-X 15" DIY sub w/ Rythmik 350A plate amp
    Dayton 12" DVC w/ Rythmik 350a plate amp
    Harman/Kardon AVR-635
    Oppo 981hd
    Denon upconvert DVD player
    Jennings Research (vintage and rare)
    Mit RPTV WS-55513
    Tosh HD-XA1
    B&K AV5000


    Dont BAN me Bro!!!!

  25. #85

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    Another cap shootout.
    http://www.vhaudio.com/21capacitorshootout.pdf

    I believe this one was posted already.
    http://www.humblehomemadehifi.com/Cap.html
    "He who fights with monsters should look to it that he himself does not become a monster. And when you gaze long into an abyss the abyss also gazes into you." Friedrich Nietzsche

  26. #86
    GV#27
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    Wow Jake and Ben,you were still talking xovers,caps at 2 am.:D A sure sign you are afflicted with audio disease.


    Quote Originally Posted by jakelm View Post

    The only reson I ask is becuase after changing the caps from Mylar to Solen, I noticed (yes an audible smoother difference) but also what seems like a HP slope in the higher Fr. You know how when listening to a bad recording there is a slight hisss, well after changing the caps out, I noticed on the same recording, the hiss wasnt as pronounced, alot more quiet. Like the top end had been cut down.
    Hummm assuming the caps were the same capacitance value,it could be the difference in series resistance(ESR) between the two.Different types of caps have different ESR values so its possible that the mylar's ESR is lower so it might have a fraction of a db less attenuation making it sound a bit brighter.Thats all I can think of.
    Last edited by GV#27; 01-10-2008 at 08:34 PM. Reason: clarification

  27. #87

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    For me, HF improved with Solens, that shows how shot my old caps were.
    "He who fights with monsters should look to it that he himself does not become a monster. And when you gaze long into an abyss the abyss also gazes into you." Friedrich Nietzsche

  28. #88

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    Quote Originally Posted by Face View Post
    For me, HF improved with Solens, that shows how shot my old caps were.
    The Solen's are definitely not crap. There was a substantial SQ improvement with them. The Dayton's have been getting better, and better with more time on them. I was happy with my Solen's, but I am a freak, and I am always looking to find better stuff on the same price level. Somebody gave me some Solen's because they changed over to Dayton's. That made me curious. So before I continue doing more, and more custom stuff, and upgrades I really want to know. Also I have given advice to many newbies on using Solen's for their upgrades. This advice has been given with my experiences with this one brand that I have used. The real test is going to be the sonicaps vs the Dayton's. When the finances permit I shall do the comparison:)
    BTW I hated giving up your wires. now I need to make some more for myself, and break them in before doing any critical listening. Also the Ipod speaker wires look nice, but the sonics kinda suck so far:(
    Please. Please contact me a ben62670 @ yahoo.com. Make sure to include who you are, and you are from Polk so I don't delete your email. Also I am now physically unable to work on any projects. If you need help let these guys know. There are many people who will help if you let them know where you are.
    Thanks
    Ben

  29. #89

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    Quote Originally Posted by ben62670 View Post
    BTW I hated giving up your wires. now I need to make some more for myself, and break them in before doing any critical listening. Also the Ipod speaker wires look nice, but the sonics kinda suck so far:(
    Don't worry, they should be well appreciated here. :D
    "He who fights with monsters should look to it that he himself does not become a monster. And when you gaze long into an abyss the abyss also gazes into you." Friedrich Nietzsche

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    Ok. So far we have Dayton better than Solen better than OEM. From 1-10 I know the margin between the OEM caps and Solens are about ~5. I'm wondering what you think, Ben, the margin is between the Solen and Daytons. In mid bass and highs.
    Monitor 7b's front
    Monitor 4's surround
    Frankinpolk Center (2 mw6503's with peerless tweeter)
    M10's back surround
    Hafler-200 driving patio Daytons
    Tempest-X 15" DIY sub w/ Rythmik 350A plate amp
    Dayton 12" DVC w/ Rythmik 350a plate amp
    Harman/Kardon AVR-635
    Oppo 981hd
    Denon upconvert DVD player
    Jennings Research (vintage and rare)
    Mit RPTV WS-55513
    Tosh HD-XA1
    B&K AV5000


    Dont BAN me Bro!!!!

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