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Thread: amping help

  1. #1

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    Smile amping help

    Hello
    My main goal is to bi-amp my rti10 but I feel like I'm leaning towards a 7 channel amp. Do the rti6, rti4 and csi5 benefit a lot from bi-amping or should I just stick to bi-amping my mains?

    Some options I am considering are buying the avr655 when it comes out as my current avr645 is only hdmi 1.1 with only 1080i; then using both effectively giving my 150watts*7, or using a b*k 125.7 s2 which with receiver would net 200 watts a channel or lastly add a 200.2s2 netting 275watts just for mains. Is there a big difference between 150 and 200 watts or 150 to 275 or 200 to 275?

    Any advice would be great, one last thing I don't use a sub and I have my cross over set as follows are they ideal
    rti10 - large
    csi5 - 40
    rti6 40
    Should I bump my csi5 and rti6 to 60 or leave them at 40?
    Thanks for help in advance

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    Keep the AVR you have, unless you want the HD sound. 1080i vs 1080p isn't going to make a difference.

    Get either a quality 2 or 5 channel amp. With the 2ch run the mains with it, with 5 channel you can run either all 5 or bi-amp the mains and run one channel for the centre. I would not bi-amp using a receiver and an external amp, although some do.

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    If I was going to bi-amp, which I'll never do, I would only worry about the mains.

    The rest is a waste of money unless you live in a soccer stadium. The difference between those power ratings is negligible and may be more noticeable between the actual manufacturer.....but some folks don't believe that either.

    Sami has a good suggestion for power distribution with an external amplifier.

    If the settings sound good to you, then they are ideal.
    Last edited by dorokusai; 03-02-2008 at 02:01 PM.

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    Lose the need for more power and put the $$$ into a nice sub. A sub will give you more bang for your buck with your current setup than any amp/wiring choice.

    The difference between the wattages you are looking at is around 1-2 dB at full volume.
    Last edited by Dennis Gardner; 03-02-2008 at 02:07 PM.

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    Default amp reply

    Hello
    Thanks for the responses, so to rephrase basically I have equated higher wattages to better quality sound when it really is about higher volumes.

    So more questions,
    I have rti6 for rears but I noticed the audio doesn't seem as good as my rti10 fronts, is this because 5.1 tracks don't use as detailed tracks for rears like the fronts? I currently use 16 gauge speaker wires with the rear lengths being about 15feet.

    Not sure what I will do amp wise, I like all three options but getting a good sub also makes a lot of sense which Polk subs do you recommend, I currently have a psw10.
    What is dampening factor? Also do you recommend banana plugs?
    Thanks for your help.

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    Quote Originally Posted by StevenFo2 View Post
    Hello
    Thanks for the responses, so to rephrase basically I have equated higher wattages to better quality sound when it really is about higher volumes.

    So more questions,
    I have rti6 for rears but I noticed the audio doesn't seem as good as my rti10 fronts, is this because 5.1 tracks don't use as detailed tracks for rears like the fronts? I currently use 16 gauge speaker wires with the rear lengths being about 15feet.

    Not sure what I will do amp wise, I like all three options but getting a good sub also makes a lot of sense which Polk subs do you recommend, I currently have a psw10.
    What is dampening factor? Also do you recommend banana plugs?
    Thanks for your help.
    No, the difference between 150wpc and 200wpc is not worth worrying about....based on the examples you posted. If it was 150wpc vs 300wpc.....well, you might have a noticeable difference at that point. The quality of the power, and/or manufacturer, will also factor into this power struggle. Not all gear is created equal. It's not about volume, its always about gain.

    Surround information isn't as obvious as front stage information...that's the whole point of surround sound. If you could always localize it....it would be 1970's Quadraphonic.

    Banana plugs are very convenient.

    Damping factor isn't even a factor at this juncture. Get some more audio under your belt before you worry about that specification....and even then, it's not that important in the big picture.

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    A lot of good information here. I agree a better sub would be my next recommended step. I do think you should at least try raising the crossover for your center and surrounds as 40 is below their -3dB limits.

    Just to make sure you understand, when adding an amp you don't add the power from the receiver and the amplifier. When you add an external amplifier the AVR amplifier goes unused so you only get the power the external amp is rated at.

    As for what sub, if I was looking at Polk the only one I would be interested in is the DSW 600.
    AVR: Elite VSX-21TXH
    Amplifier: B&K 7250 Series ii
    Misc: Velodyne SMS-1
    Mains: RTi-10
    Center: CSi-5
    Rear: Boston DSi460
    Sub: SVS PC-Ultra
    TV: Panasonic TC-P58V10
    DVD: Panasonic DMP-BD60K

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    Hello
    So if I add an amp my receiver essentially becomes a pre-out and the amp does all the work. Is the reason for this so that you can send the full amp signal without limiting the power to the speaker’s crossover? Is it not possible to run my receivers wire to the top terminals(high freq) and use the amp for the bottom terminals(low freq) on the speaker?
    Thanks again

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    Quote Originally Posted by dorokusai View Post
    No, the difference between 150wpc and 200wpc is not worth worrying about...
    Don't let Cathy know you said that...
    Let me tell you something about life, around every corner monsters await. I know, I am one.

    If I owned hell and this place, I would rent this place out and live in hell.

    Mains: Anthony Gallo Reference 3.1
    Preamp: Modwright SWL9.0SE
    Amps: Butler TBD2250, PS Audio Trio
    PrePro: Cary Cinema 6, Outlaw 990
    DAC: Benchmark DAC1
    Universal Player: Denon 2900
    Cables: StraightWire Encore II, Kimber Hero, Audioquest Type 4, CV-8, Columbia DBS
    Power Conditioner: Belkin PF60

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    Quote Originally Posted by StevenFo2 View Post
    ... one last thing I don't use a sub and I have my cross over set as follows are they ideal
    rti10 - large
    csi5 - 40
    rti6 40
    Should I bump my csi5 and rti6 to 60 or leave them at 40?
    Thanks for help in advance
    I would also bump the crossover to 60 or even 80 Hz on those speakers. 40 is essentially running them full range as it's well below their -3dB limit.

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    He doesn't use a subwoofer so there's not much point in crossing them at all, let alone raising it to 60.

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    I think the damping factor on some old Mcintosh gear that sells for thousands of dollars on e*bay is around 10 and people think they sound spectacular ... you look at modern SS amps and they say damping factor 40, 80, ... 300

    Where was it that I read 20 or 40 is more than enough, and anything beyond that is meaningless?

    W

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    It's not a meaningless factor but not as important as some folks think.
    Last edited by dorokusai; 03-03-2008 at 10:55 AM.

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    Default New RTi 12's and Onkyo 805

    Quote Originally Posted by Sami View Post
    Keep the AVR you have, unless you want the HD sound. 1080i vs 1080p isn't going to make a difference.

    Get either a quality 2 or 5 channel amp. With the 2ch run the mains with it, with 5 channel you can run either all 5 or bi-amp the mains and run one channel for the centre. I would not bi-amp using a receiver and an external amp, although some do.
    I have a onkyo 805 powering two Monitor 70's as my surrounds and a new, in-transit, pair of TRi 12's, my center is a CSi5?. I have heard these 12's suck power. If they don't sound good on my 805 I have a 200 w/ch Adcom gfa 555 power amp. 2 questions Sami...... 1. How do I bi amp just the two front RTi 12's? 2. Why don't you recommend it? Thanks... Would I run a interconnect from which preout on the receiever to the amp?

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    Quote Originally Posted by dorokusai View Post
    He doesn't use a subwoofer so there's not much point in crossing them at all, let alone raising it to 60.
    Yes, but why not let the 10's try to handle the lower end of the center and surrounds? When the sub is finally there he could just tweak the bass management for fronts, but the rest of his system would already be dialed in.
    my 2 cents
    - Val
    Last edited by VSchneider; 03-03-2008 at 11:22 AM.

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    He already has the fronts set to large. I understand but it's not that hard to quickly adjust for the addition of a subwoofer unless he doesn't have fingers.....so you may have a point.

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    Replied to your e-mail. Here's my answers for everyone to see, in case some of you disagree:

    How to bi-amp:


    You would first disconnect the blade between the binding posts on your speakers. This is the gold metal plate that connects them.

    Run interconnect from your receivers L/R preout to your amplifier.

    Run speaker wires from your amplifier to the bottom post on your speakers. Run speaker wire from your receivers L/R output to the top posts on the speakers.

    Why I would not bi-amp with receiver and amplifier:


    First, the receiver might shut off the amplifier section if it detects there is preout connected.

    Second, you most likely have different gain on the amplifiers, this why I only recommend bi-amping with the same amplifier. Why does it matter, well if the amplifier is 2dB hot compared to the receiver, you will get 2dB more sound on the frequency section of the amplifier. Not good but some people won't notice it. You can get around this but it's way more advanced issue than bi-amping.

    Third, the Adcom is 200WPC, more than enough to drive the 12's. Not worth the trouble to bi-amp with different amps. You can try of course, you won't lose anything. Compare it to the Adcom alone and see for yourself which one you like better.

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