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  1. #1

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    Default Tweaking System to reference Song...

    Just curious.

    The wife and I were having a few drinks last night, listening to Sarah McLachlan. The song Angel came on. We like the song so much , I found myself tweaking my system to fit the song. I have heard many recordings of this song, but found the CD Surfacing, has the best recording.

    I found the mids to be alittle strong, so there I was, messin' with the controls again. Telling myself, I dont care what anything else sounds like, as long as this song sounds great.

    Do you all do the same, or am I just going crazy??
    Monitor 7b's front
    Monitor 4's surround
    Frankinpolk Center (2 mw6503's with peerless tweeter)
    M10's back surround
    Hafler-200 driving patio Daytons
    Tempest-X 15" DIY sub w/ Rythmik 350A plate amp
    Dayton 12" DVC w/ Rythmik 350a plate amp
    Harman/Kardon AVR-635
    Oppo 981hd
    Denon upconvert DVD player
    Jennings Research (vintage and rare)
    Mit RPTV WS-55513
    Tosh HD-XA1
    B&K AV5000


    Dont BAN me Bro!!!!

  2. #2

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    Depending on the song, I have been known to tweak my rig over the course of a couple of hours to make one song shine. "Anal" is a word that comes to mind when I'm doing this, "Bliss" is a word that comes to mind when it's tweaked. ;)
    In search of accurate reproduction of music. Real sound is my reference and while perfection may not be attainable? If I chase it, I might just catch excellence.

    "The best way to enjoy digital music reproduction is to never listen to good analogue reproduction". - Kenneth Swauger

  3. #3

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    I hate tone controls personally. I try to buy equipment which helps make the songs I like sound as I like.
    Lovin that music year after year.

    Main 2 Channel System

    Polk SDA-1B,
    Promitheus Audio TVC SE,
    Rotel RB-980BX,
    OPPO DV-970HD,
    Lite Audio DAC AH,
    IXOS XHA305 Interconnects


    Computer Rig

    Polk SDA CRS+,
    Creek Audio 5350 SE,
    Morrow Audio MA1 Interconnect,
    HRT Music Streamer II

  4. #4

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    I NEVER touch tone controls. Maybe because I don't have any.
    _________________________________________________
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    2008 & 2010 Football Pool WINNER
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    Thank God for different opinions. Imagine the world if we all wanted the same woman

  5. #5

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    Well it started out as just simple, controls. Beings I have my subs intergrated with my 7's, it started with simple blending.

    Turning subs on and off, mains large and small. 2 channel stereo, with 7's.

    Then before you knew it, I was moving my 7's around, toeing them in and out, moving closer, farther away.

    I had to stop myself. Or I was going to end up breaking out the spl meter again and start running frq sweeps.

    My wife had that cute little confused puppy dog look on her face, like "what the hell are doing?"
    Monitor 7b's front
    Monitor 4's surround
    Frankinpolk Center (2 mw6503's with peerless tweeter)
    M10's back surround
    Hafler-200 driving patio Daytons
    Tempest-X 15" DIY sub w/ Rythmik 350A plate amp
    Dayton 12" DVC w/ Rythmik 350a plate amp
    Harman/Kardon AVR-635
    Oppo 981hd
    Denon upconvert DVD player
    Jennings Research (vintage and rare)
    Mit RPTV WS-55513
    Tosh HD-XA1
    B&K AV5000


    Dont BAN me Bro!!!!

  6. #6

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    Quote Originally Posted by Refefer View Post
    I hate tone controls personally.
    I consider them "knobs of sin" as they can knock one off reference. There are songs that have been recorded so ****ty, that the only thing one can do is to change certain things. There was a song I started a thread about in the music and movies forum [ http://www.polkaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?t=61445 ] and the only way I could get it to sound good WAS to tweak the system.

    I doubt that any rig could have that recording sound good without adjustments. The rest of the album, yes. That song, I highly doubt it.
    In search of accurate reproduction of music. Real sound is my reference and while perfection may not be attainable? If I chase it, I might just catch excellence.

    "The best way to enjoy digital music reproduction is to never listen to good analogue reproduction". - Kenneth Swauger

  7. #7

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    it's to bad that CD's aren't consistent in their sound.. so yeah. often times I have to tweak it out.. bugs the hell out of me. i just want to listen to some music without being annoyed that this CD sounds bad and I like the CD over the previous ones I was just listening to that sounded great.

    i've tweaked my gear to get it to sound the best. but every so often a bad sounding CD makes it to the CDP, ruining all my hard tweaking work.

  8. #8

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    It is a very bad thing to tweak to a particular song or CD, whether by tone controls or equipment changes. For every tweak to make a single selection sound slightly better you are eliminating enjoyment of many other recordings either by comparison or by skewing the sound away from overall neutrality.
    madmax
    Vinyl, the final frontier...

    Avantgarde horns, 300b tubes, thats the kinda crap I want... :D

  9. #9

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    what is a "tone control" :p
    JC approves....he told me so. (F-1 nut)

  10. #10

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    Quote Originally Posted by madmax View Post
    It is a very bad thing to tweak to a particular song or CD, whether by tone controls or equipment changes. For every tweak to make a single selection sound slightly better you are eliminating enjoyment of many other recordings either by comparison or by skewing the sound away from overall neutrality.
    madmax
    That's why after the song all signals are set back to what I consider "reference", which is a flat signal. I might tweak 3 or 4 times a year because if I don't....I don't even want to hear the song I'm tweaking the rig for.
    In search of accurate reproduction of music. Real sound is my reference and while perfection may not be attainable? If I chase it, I might just catch excellence.

    "The best way to enjoy digital music reproduction is to never listen to good analogue reproduction". - Kenneth Swauger

  11. #11

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    Quote Originally Posted by george daniel View Post
    what is a "tone control" :p
    You would know it as Cable.
    Monitor 7b's front
    Monitor 4's surround
    Frankinpolk Center (2 mw6503's with peerless tweeter)
    M10's back surround
    Hafler-200 driving patio Daytons
    Tempest-X 15" DIY sub w/ Rythmik 350A plate amp
    Dayton 12" DVC w/ Rythmik 350a plate amp
    Harman/Kardon AVR-635
    Oppo 981hd
    Denon upconvert DVD player
    Jennings Research (vintage and rare)
    Mit RPTV WS-55513
    Tosh HD-XA1
    B&K AV5000


    Dont BAN me Bro!!!!

  12. #12

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    It amazes me at how much money and effort you can throw into a system, but it all comes down to the recording.

    I try to get my system as neutral as possible, but , what difference does that make, if I have to get up for every other CD and scew it (as it was put earlier), one way or the other.

    It all started with, Fleetwood Mac. Excellent recording, probably my "reference" CD. But then comes another CD, that I really enjoy listening to. And "wammo", back to adjusting. Then resetting everything back to the way I had it, when I ran my system responce software.

    Then started wondering..hmmmmmm.. "I wonder if different cables will make this strong mid bass I'm hearing, slack off abit"

    I should have never got started.

    I need to go to AA (audioholic's anonymous)
    Last edited by jakelm; 03-08-2008 at 01:27 PM.
    Monitor 7b's front
    Monitor 4's surround
    Frankinpolk Center (2 mw6503's with peerless tweeter)
    M10's back surround
    Hafler-200 driving patio Daytons
    Tempest-X 15" DIY sub w/ Rythmik 350A plate amp
    Dayton 12" DVC w/ Rythmik 350a plate amp
    Harman/Kardon AVR-635
    Oppo 981hd
    Denon upconvert DVD player
    Jennings Research (vintage and rare)
    Mit RPTV WS-55513
    Tosh HD-XA1
    B&K AV5000


    Dont BAN me Bro!!!!

  13. #13

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    One thing I notice is sometimes I put on something that sounds like crap at first but as I adapt to the sound I find the real beauty of the recording. Had I immediatly changed my systems sound I may have never found the gold.
    madmax
    Vinyl, the final frontier...

    Avantgarde horns, 300b tubes, thats the kinda crap I want... :D

  14. #14

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    Or hearing someone say, "buy this cd it is recorded fantastic", so I buy the CD, and it sounds like ass. So, there I go again, tweaking.
    Monitor 7b's front
    Monitor 4's surround
    Frankinpolk Center (2 mw6503's with peerless tweeter)
    M10's back surround
    Hafler-200 driving patio Daytons
    Tempest-X 15" DIY sub w/ Rythmik 350A plate amp
    Dayton 12" DVC w/ Rythmik 350a plate amp
    Harman/Kardon AVR-635
    Oppo 981hd
    Denon upconvert DVD player
    Jennings Research (vintage and rare)
    Mit RPTV WS-55513
    Tosh HD-XA1
    B&K AV5000


    Dont BAN me Bro!!!!

  15. #15

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    if a recording doesn't sound good from the first song.. i won't enjoy the whole CD/album

    just bugs me to know that if I bump up the treble one notch it will sound much better. I have tried many different cables, and found the ones right now that sound the most pleasing to me. so I'm not tweaking any more cables, i think now I'm just going to have to live with the fact that some recordings are bad.

  16. #16

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    Quote Originally Posted by danger boy View Post
    if a recording doesn't sound good from the first song.. i won't enjoy the whole CD/album

    just bugs me to know that if I bump up the treble one notch it will sound much better. I have tried many different cables, and found the ones right now that sound the most pleasing to me. so I'm not tweaking any more cables, i think now I'm just going to have to live with the fact that some recordings are bad.
    Yes, Spending hours getting you system to perform as close to "flat" as possible, only to have a song you realy like, and find out that you have to bump/lower, bass or treble, to get it right.

    Other recordings might not sound quite as good, but I know my fav song sounds great. That is the hardship I have to indure...
    Last edited by jakelm; 03-08-2008 at 01:33 PM.
    Monitor 7b's front
    Monitor 4's surround
    Frankinpolk Center (2 mw6503's with peerless tweeter)
    M10's back surround
    Hafler-200 driving patio Daytons
    Tempest-X 15" DIY sub w/ Rythmik 350A plate amp
    Dayton 12" DVC w/ Rythmik 350a plate amp
    Harman/Kardon AVR-635
    Oppo 981hd
    Denon upconvert DVD player
    Jennings Research (vintage and rare)
    Mit RPTV WS-55513
    Tosh HD-XA1
    B&K AV5000


    Dont BAN me Bro!!!!

  17. #17

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    Since we are on the subject.

    I dont own any HDCD's. Are they worth looking into? I was looking at a few HDcd's like,Mozrat

    Excuse the dumb question, but can any cd/dvd player play them? My HK says it can decode it. But I dont know about my Oppo or XA1.
    Monitor 7b's front
    Monitor 4's surround
    Frankinpolk Center (2 mw6503's with peerless tweeter)
    M10's back surround
    Hafler-200 driving patio Daytons
    Tempest-X 15" DIY sub w/ Rythmik 350A plate amp
    Dayton 12" DVC w/ Rythmik 350a plate amp
    Harman/Kardon AVR-635
    Oppo 981hd
    Denon upconvert DVD player
    Jennings Research (vintage and rare)
    Mit RPTV WS-55513
    Tosh HD-XA1
    B&K AV5000


    Dont BAN me Bro!!!!

  18. #18

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    Quote Originally Posted by jakelm View Post
    I dont own any HDCD's. Are they worth looking into?
    Not really. Every CDP can play them, but only a few can decode HDCD.

    I suggest tweaking your system to the music you like best, then leave it alone. You will NEVER be satisifed if you keep fiddling with it for every recording. Getting your system to sound "neutral" is bad news for most CDs, especially the commercial artists.

    This hobby sucks.
    HT/2-channel Rig: Sony 50 LCD TV; Toshiba HD-A2 DVD player; Emotiva LMC-1 pre/pro; Rogue Audio M-120 monoblocks (modded); Placette RVC; Emotiva LPA-1 amp; Bada HD-22 tube CDP (modded); VMPS Tower II SE (fronts); DIY Clearwave Dynamic 4CC (center); Wharfedale Opus Tri-Surrounds (rear); and VMPS 215 sub

    "God grooves with tubes."

  19. #19

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    Quote Originally Posted by Early B. View Post
    Not really. Every CDP can play them, but only a few can decode HDCD.
    But my HK can decode them, so I'm ok.

    I suggest tweaking your system to the music you like best, then leave it alone. You will NEVER be satisifed if you keep fiddling with it for every recording. Getting your system to sound "neutral" is bad news for most CDs, especially the commercial artists.

    This hobby sucks.
    Sadly, I agree
    Monitor 7b's front
    Monitor 4's surround
    Frankinpolk Center (2 mw6503's with peerless tweeter)
    M10's back surround
    Hafler-200 driving patio Daytons
    Tempest-X 15" DIY sub w/ Rythmik 350A plate amp
    Dayton 12" DVC w/ Rythmik 350a plate amp
    Harman/Kardon AVR-635
    Oppo 981hd
    Denon upconvert DVD player
    Jennings Research (vintage and rare)
    Mit RPTV WS-55513
    Tosh HD-XA1
    B&K AV5000


    Dont BAN me Bro!!!!

  20. #20

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    BTW, Jake --

    I didn't see a separate CDP in your sig. What are you using as the source? I'm asking because the source may be the source of your tweakaphile problem.
    HT/2-channel Rig: Sony 50 LCD TV; Toshiba HD-A2 DVD player; Emotiva LMC-1 pre/pro; Rogue Audio M-120 monoblocks (modded); Placette RVC; Emotiva LPA-1 amp; Bada HD-22 tube CDP (modded); VMPS Tower II SE (fronts); DIY Clearwave Dynamic 4CC (center); Wharfedale Opus Tri-Surrounds (rear); and VMPS 215 sub

    "God grooves with tubes."

  21. #21

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    Quote Originally Posted by Early B. View Post
    BTW, Jake --

    I didn't see a separate CDP in your sig. What are you using as the source? I'm asking because the source may be the source of your tweakaphile problem.

    I use my Oppo and my XA1. My XA1 does a great job, using its direct mode (5.1 analog out for movies or just the L/R of the 5.1 out for CD)

    Or Oppo, mix L/R out.

    I had a very nice Kenwood 5 disk player, but when it broke I never replaced it.
    Monitor 7b's front
    Monitor 4's surround
    Frankinpolk Center (2 mw6503's with peerless tweeter)
    M10's back surround
    Hafler-200 driving patio Daytons
    Tempest-X 15" DIY sub w/ Rythmik 350A plate amp
    Dayton 12" DVC w/ Rythmik 350a plate amp
    Harman/Kardon AVR-635
    Oppo 981hd
    Denon upconvert DVD player
    Jennings Research (vintage and rare)
    Mit RPTV WS-55513
    Tosh HD-XA1
    B&K AV5000


    Dont BAN me Bro!!!!

  22. #22

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    Quote Originally Posted by jakelm View Post
    I use my Oppo and my XA1.
    It's time to consider setting up a separate 2-channel rig.
    HT/2-channel Rig: Sony 50 LCD TV; Toshiba HD-A2 DVD player; Emotiva LMC-1 pre/pro; Rogue Audio M-120 monoblocks (modded); Placette RVC; Emotiva LPA-1 amp; Bada HD-22 tube CDP (modded); VMPS Tower II SE (fronts); DIY Clearwave Dynamic 4CC (center); Wharfedale Opus Tri-Surrounds (rear); and VMPS 215 sub

    "God grooves with tubes."

  23. #23

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    Quote Originally Posted by Early B. View Post
    It's time to consider setting up a separate 2-channel rig.

    I know, but I have no room for a seperate 2 chnl rig. I need at least a dedicated CDP. I enjoy my HK pre, B&K amp and 7's combo, too much, to change them out, but a good CDP is in order.
    Monitor 7b's front
    Monitor 4's surround
    Frankinpolk Center (2 mw6503's with peerless tweeter)
    M10's back surround
    Hafler-200 driving patio Daytons
    Tempest-X 15" DIY sub w/ Rythmik 350A plate amp
    Dayton 12" DVC w/ Rythmik 350a plate amp
    Harman/Kardon AVR-635
    Oppo 981hd
    Denon upconvert DVD player
    Jennings Research (vintage and rare)
    Mit RPTV WS-55513
    Tosh HD-XA1
    B&K AV5000


    Dont BAN me Bro!!!!

  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by george daniel View Post
    what is a "tone control" :p
    It's a little knob hidden in the small of the back on all women. Turn it one way and it lowers the tone, their belly and tits get flabby. Turn it the other way and it tones them up, tightening the belly and lifting the boobs.

  25. #25

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    So now because of Wizzy, I want tone controls.


    Dave
    Once again we meet at last.

  26. #26

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    Quote Originally Posted by Early B. View Post
    It's time to consider setting up a separate 2-channel rig.
    +1 on that. Leave the HT system alone after you calibrate it & listen to music on a separate system. Tweakage is much easier there, and easy to reset when you are done.

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