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  1. #91

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    Quote Originally Posted by theshawn View Post
    Better at the hardware store? How come? I mean I know Monster is over rated but didn't think it was THAT over rated. lol
    Better, in that the hardware store doesn't make claims like:

    Extra low noise construction
    Patented Magnetic Flux
    High Quality
    Breaks up internal electromagnetic fields

    Better in that the hardware store price's it as a commodity not as a magic device.

    Nothing wrong with M***** if the price is right, but nothing special either.

  2. #92

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    OK so how much would 18' of 12 gauge cost at the hardware store? For $9 I'll take the chance that a company more geared towards audio cables just might have a technology in their wires that exceeds plain jacketed copper. This thread spoke about internal wire issues, does this magnetic flux do absolutely nothing and is 100% marketing bs? I get their marketing bs and for the most part think they are over rated and way to expensive for what you get. You and others here are more knowledgeable than myself so I have no problem being educated (or re-educated as the case may be lol). If this "magnetic flux" crap is truly just marketing bs and has no actual audio value then I want to know.

    I think what I'd like to ask is....is this Monster 12 gauge for car subwoofers any better than 16 gauge home speaker wire? Because of marketing bs I'm thinking their home speaker cable as mass marketed at Best Buy, etc. is no better, and if you purchased 12 gauge "home speaker" wire there you'd pay a lot more per foot than 0.50 imo. BECAUSE of marketing bs, the wire marketed for home speakers in the home audio section is of the same quality as the stuff in car audio but they can't get the same markup in car audio?

  3. #93

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    Yes and no my friend, certainly marketing B.S. exists in the cable industry but shouldn't define the industry as a whole. Same with other audio products. Thing is to get YOUR ears on as much as possible to see which brands float your boat and then give them a whirl in your system. It's not rocket science, but does take some trial and error.

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    Shawn,

    My recommendation for a quality speaker cable that you literally can't go wrong with is the Audioquest Flex series CL rated wire.
    Audio Etc. in Centerville *should* sell it in bulk. Just buy 18ft of their 14/2.
    Either that or the whatever bulk CL rated cable Hanson in Dayton sells.

    Heck...isn't Parts Express in Springboro? Just pick up some Dayton Audio CL rated cable from them...
    "Unwad those panties and have a good time man. We're all here to help each other, no matter how it might appear." DSkip
    I may have an addiction... RTA-15TL, SDA 2, LSi25, LSi15, LSi9, LSi7, LSiCx2, LSiFX, LS/FX, RT/FX, DSW MP2000...and that's just the Polks...

  5. #95

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    As long as you're sticking with that kind of standard generic stranded copper cable, they're all going to sound pretty much the same.
    'Political Correctness'.........defined

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  6. #96

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    Quote Originally Posted by Speedskater View Post
    Better, in that the hardware store doesn't make claims like:
    Extra low noise construction
    Patented Magnetic Flux
    High Quality
    Breaks up internal electromagnetic fields
    Better in that the hardware store price's it as a commodity not as a magic device.
    Nothing wrong with M***** if the price is right, but nothing special either.
    Sounds like an issue with Monster as a company or their advertising etc...? They all claim something about the quality of their wire...some more than others.

    Nevertheless, I disagree about their basic or XLN wire products. If I can get it at cheap Amazon prices I would take it anyday over the off the roll Home Depot stuff. I've used their wire for ages in the home and in the car and the wire is true 12 AGW, is well marked for polarity, has a durable yet flexible jacket, is easy to work with, and sounds fine. Also, the wire holds up over time....even in the car...it does not corrode as fast and turn green like the cheap off the roll stuff.


    Anyway, that Monster wire is a good deal at about $0.45/ft. shipped for 12 AWG. The basic Gepco pro A/V wire that I plan to use to rewire my HT system is about $1.05/ft: who knows...I might end up using the cheaper Beldon.

    Anything more in terms of wire ...and now one must consider the crossovers and all internal wire feeding the speakers.
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  7. #97

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    Thanks for the input y'all, much appreciated.

  8. #98

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    Everything makes a difference.

    Poor quality components don't matter if you can't hear a difference

    High quality components don't matter if you can't hear a difference

    Nothing matters if you can't hear a difference

  9. #99

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    Quote Originally Posted by F1nut View Post
    As long as you're sticking with that kind of standard generic stranded copper cable, they're all going to sound pretty much the same.
    Bingo....then the comments of I can't hear a difference follows.

  10. #100

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    FWIW, I had bought some of this Monster speaker wire for subs long ago and guess what? It wasn't copper inside! AT least, not in color.

  11. #101

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    Quote Originally Posted by Drenis View Post
    FWIW, I had bought some of this Monster speaker wire for subs long ago and guess what? It wasn't copper inside! AT least, not in color.
    Same experience here in my youth of course. Lessons learned the hard way.

    Hows the new joint coming along btw ? All moved in ? Got your pics of Celine Dion and David Foster up yet ?

  12. #102

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    Quote Originally Posted by tonyb View Post
    Hows the new joint coming along btw ? All moved in ? Got your pics of Celine Dion and David Foster up yet ?
    LOL... no pictures up yet and it's been a unusually long and stressful unpack. Haven't listened to the stereo since the day I set it up. Enjoying the new place though as it saves money long term.

    Thanks for asking.

  13. #103

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    Quote Originally Posted by Drenis View Post
    FWIW, I had bought some of this Monster speaker wire for subs long ago and guess what? It wasn't copper inside! AT least, not in color.
    Quote Originally Posted by tonyb View Post
    Same experience here in my youth of course. Lessons learned the hard way. Hows the new joint coming along btw ? All moved in ? Got your pics of Celine Dion and David Foster up yet ?
    Coming from someone who thinks Monster has a marketing team that is giving Bose a run for their money....I think you guys are being a little hard on monster.

    While I have no idea what the XLN cable is coated with on the outer, it has a different color center:


    So if one believes that stranded wire is stranded wire in terms of sound..then why not go for the one that the the cheapest and has known good quality? IME, the no name off the roll wire corrodes and turns an ugly green real fast and in contrast the Monster wire has held up over time...was even used in different installs in the various car and home systems I have done for myself and others.

    Here are some prices:


    Stranded wire

    AudioQuest FLX 14 AWG- ~$1.00/ft
    Beldon 5000UP 12 AWG - $0.59/ft
    Canare 4S11 14 AWG x 2 - $1.35/ft
    Carol 2C SJ 12 AWG - $0.87/ft
    Gepco HBW Series 12 AWG - $1.05/ft
    Gepco HD Series 12 AWG - $0.90/ft
    Home Depot Speaker Wire off the roll 14 AWG - $0.64/ft
    Home Depot Southwire 500 ft. Black 12-Gauge THHN Wire - $70 roll or $0.14/ft
    Mogami W3103 12 AWG - $2.80/ft
    Monster original ~10-11 AWG - $0.87/ft
    Monster XLN 12 AWG - $0.45/ft SHIPPED!
    Monoprice CL2 12 AWG - $0.33/ft

    In all, if one can get the Monster Original stranded wire or the XLN stranded wire at a cheap price like $0.45/ft shipped then it is worth it IMO. That same roll of 18 FT 12 AWG is $24 at another site!!!! The regular retail price on many of their products is not worth it. Still, anything on the list above will get the job done in the lower priced wire segment....especially for the multiple runs needed for HT.

    However, IMO, if one is to spend a lot of money on multi-strand solid core wire then I think there are several other things that need to be in place: The equipment, the room, the source material, the interconnects, the crossovers, etc. and ONES OWN EARS really need to be worthy.
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  14. #104

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    The speaker wire making a difference question will always be a matter of opinion as we all hear different. I can't help but to think of my own hearing vs. a good friend of mine. We have both played music every since we were kids and he is an awesome talent and has a good ear for music and improvisation. However, going back to our teens, 20's, 30's I always thought his high frequency hearing was off. Whenever he would adjust the PA the top end and even mid range was HOT! I would always have to go behind him and flatten out things. In contrast my hearing was more sensitive. Hot or badly adjusted PA systems would give me a headache.


    If we both were to audition the same high end 2 ch system in the same room I am sure our ability to hear differences in wire/cables would be totally different. Now in our 40's I can't deny the fact that my high freq hearing is not the same as it was in my 20's. Still, I am convinced that I could hear more subtle difference in equipment than my bud even though he turned out to be a much better musician than myself. I guess I have heard cases of the musician and the engineer disagreeing about the final mix.


    So, I think one would really have to get all the other factors together before they can decide that a $250, $500, or $1500 set of speaker cables is worth it to them. Then there is the DIY cable vs. brand ? argument and blind test debate as well. IMO, speakers are the most subjective piece of equipment in a system in terms of defining what sounds good to ones ears. I see wire as being a more subtle difference when compared to speakers.
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  15. #105

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    Since we are having a good discussion on wire how about those little iron rings that I see from time to time on like VGA/ HDMI cables would they serve a purpose on speaker wire?

  16. #106

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    Ha ha.......a five yr old thread and still the same arguments going back and forth. It picked up right where it left off like we all just fell asleep for 5 yrs.
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  17. #107

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    This will go on till wire is no longer needed to connect components and speakers.
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  18. #108

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    Quote Originally Posted by WLDock View Post
    This will go on till wire is no longer needed to connect components and speakers.
    Agreed!!
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  19. #109

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    Quote Originally Posted by WLDock View Post
    ... I see wire as being a more subtle difference when compared to speakers.
    Yes and no, it can be subtle or more pronounced. Everything in the chain is going to impart something on the sound. In general, yeah, speakers will contribute the most to the sound imho too. Thing for me is, once you start moving up the chain of speakers, the electronics and cables have to follow too. After all, whats the point of forking out the coin for great speakers if you won't let them operate at their best ?

  20. #110

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    Quote Originally Posted by WLDock View Post
    This will go on till wire is no longer needed to connect components and speakers.
    Uh huh....then the argument will be about wired vs. non-wired sound or about how one company makes a wireless signal that is better than another.....

  21. #111

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    Quote Originally Posted by theshawn View Post
    Uh huh....then the argument will be about wired vs. non-wired sound or about how one company makes a wireless signal that has less jitter than another.....
    Fixed it for ya

  22. #112

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    That's right PFB. It will either be jitter, or something else unique to wireless, that people will try to correct. And if it exists then we will have another interesting subject to discuss.

  23. #113

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    Which we should already be aware of, as you know BF they already have a high priced Ethernet cable..

  24. #114

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    Quote Originally Posted by tonyb View Post
    Yes and no, it can be subtle or more pronounced. Everything in the chain is going to impart something on the sound. In general, yeah, speakers will contribute the most to the sound imho too. Thing for me is, once you start moving up the chain of speakers, the electronics and cables have to follow too. After all, whats the point of forking out the coin for great speakers if you won't let them operate at their best ?
    I agree....that's why I posted on the "LSIM707 BiWire post"

    http://www.polkaudio.com/forums/show...highlight=LSiM

    They were talking about $200 jumpers and Bi-Wiring, etc. which I think is absurd when you think of all the connections inside of the 707 speaker. Why spend a bunch of money on speaker wires and jumpers when there are a ton of metal to metal connections and cost effective, wire, compnents, PCB, in the signal chain? Your end result will only be as good as the weak link in the chain:

    IMO, this should be the start before spending a lot of cash on speaker wire:


    Not saying that what Polk did was not sutable as they are awesome physicist and engineers....but, they have to get mass produced high quality out the door at a decent price that the bean counters and the consumers are good with....so they can only go so far on the wire, crossovers, and connections.


    I guess i still don't get the $200 jumpers? Hell, if I had $100K burning a hole in my pocket and I just picked up a set of JBL Everest and a couple of Krell mono blocks, I guess $200 jumpers and $5k+ wire falls right inline?
    Last edited by WLDock; 05-28-2013 at 08:51 AM.
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  25. #115

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    Gotcha....but your hitting the extremes. You don't need to spend 5g's on cables either. There's a vast amount of real estate in-between monoprice and 5g cables. Your analogy just doesn't hold water. You yourself said if you had the cash, Krell mono blocks would be on your radar. If that's the case, how could all that electronics benefit from the crap wiring in the wall, if following your thought process. The only other assumption is that by stating if you had the cash only reflects that you must justify somehow that you don't. Well, some people do have the cash, which elevates them to be able to play audio on a whole other level.

    We have this discussion a gazillion times a year, and I'll wager within the next few days someone else will come along and post why cables don't/do matter.....blah blah. Gets old my friend, but one has to be willing to try new things before jumping to conclusions.

    For me personally, I could give a rats behind if a cable is made with 6n copper or 9n, stranded, twisted, 9ga or 14 ga. Silver, Palladium, or some other exotic metallurgy. Solid core, air dielectric, or whatever. It could be made out of dog poo for all I care. It's how it sounds in my system to my ears and that's the bottom line. How it happens, why it happens, the science of it all, irrelevant to me.

  26. #116

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    Quote Originally Posted by tonyb View Post
    It could be made out of dog poo for all I care.
    I'm sure Patrick can help you with this.
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  27. #117

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    Hey man, anyone that can form dog poo into cables.....and shield them to hide the smell, has my admiration.

  28. #118

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    Quote Originally Posted by tonyb View Post
    Hey man, anyone that can form dog poo into cables.....and shield them to hide the smell, has my admiration.
    What do you think that playdough looking stuff on the ends of his cables really is?
    "Unwad those panties and have a good time man. We're all here to help each other, no matter how it might appear." DSkip
    I may have an addiction... RTA-15TL, SDA 2, LSi25, LSi15, LSi9, LSi7, LSiCx2, LSiFX, LS/FX, RT/FX, DSW MP2000...and that's just the Polks...

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    Quote Originally Posted by WLDock View Post
    I agree....that's why I posted on the "LSIM707 BiWire post"

    http://www.polkaudio.com/forums/show...highlight=LSiM

    They were talking about $200 jumpers and Bi-Wiring, etc. which I think is absurd when you think of all the connections inside of the 707 speaker. Why spend a bunch of money on speaker wires and jumpers when there are a ton of metal to metal connections and cost effective, wire, compnents, PCB, in the signal chain? Your end result will only be as good as the weak link in the chain:

    IMO, this should be the start before spending a lot of cash on speaker wire:


    Not saying that what Polk did was not sutable as they are awesome physicist and engineers....but, they have to get mass produced high quality out the door at a decent price that the bean counters and the consumers are good with....so they can only go so far on the wire, crossovers, and connections.


    I guess i still don't get the $200 jumpers? Hell, if I had $100K burning a hole in my pocket and I just picked up a set of JBL Everest and a couple of Krell mono blocks, I guess $200 jumpers and $5k+ wire falls right inline?
    Sir, there have been an innumerable number of posts about Polkies updating their speakers PCB's, Caps, resistors, binding posts, internal wire, and a great number of other internal to the speaker tweeks to update and improve their speakers. Particualrly the SDA line of speakers. If you haven't seen/read them please look up Darqueknight's (Ray's) very thorough and informative threads regarding the updating and improvement to the sound (or lack of improvement, or detriment too). Aslo, there have been an innumerable number of posts regarding speaker wire, jumpers, amps, pre-amps, sources, etc. external to the speakers (and the improvement, lack of improvement, or detriment to the audio). Go check it out please.
    Taken from a recent Audioholics reply regarding "Club Polk" and Polk speakers:

    "I'm yet to hear a Polk speaker that merits more than a sentence and 60 seconds discussion."

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    long story short Don't listen to anyone but yourself about wire, if YOU hear a difference then that's all that matters..
    I've come to a conclusion that Human ears and the ear canal are not all created equal and the region of the brain that makes Logical decisions..
    BUT you have to at least try different cables or wire before dismissing it.

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