Free Shipping on All Orders 1-866-764-1801

Vist our Online Store
+ Reply to Thread
Page 2 of 5 FirstFirst 1 2 3 4 5 LastLast
Results 31 to 60 of 131
  1. #31

    Member Sales Rating: (8)

    Join Date
    Feb 2002
    Location
    Tennessee
    Posts
    11,499

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by hearingimpared View Post
    Yawn~~~~~~~~~~~
    HEY! That's my line....
    "Just because you’re offended doesn’t mean you’re right." - Ricky Gervais

    "For those who believe, no proof is necessary. For those who don't believe, no proof is possible." - Stuart Chase

    "Consistency requires you to be as ignorant today as you were a year ago." - Bernard Berenson

  2. #32

    Member Sales Rating: (6)

    Join Date
    Sep 2003
    Location
    Arizona
    Posts
    16,228

    Default

    The cables' topology is probably as important as the materials used--this is often over-looked.

    Source: Squeezebox Touch/CIA Power Supply
    DAC: Benchmark DAC/PRE
    Linestage: Placette RVC Passive
    Power Amp: Parasound HCA-1500A
    Speakers: Harbeth Compact 7ES-3 Monitor
    Subwoofer: SVS PB12-NSD

  3. #33

    Member Sales Rating: (0)

    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Posts
    106

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by maximillian View Post
    anti-cat coating.
    That's the most important of all. It contains a special substance called anti-cat nip designed to repel even the most enthusiastic of cats.

  4. #34

    Member Sales Rating: (3)

    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Location
    In the country Geronimo oklahoma
    Posts
    964

    Default if speaker wire doesnt make a difference then your deaf

    There is differences and anybody can tell sometime only very sublte but other times its drastic.
    " He who dies with the most equipment wins Right ? "

    Denon 3300 [COLOR="Blue"]Adcom 535 BBe w/sub out 1 pr 4.6s 2 pr of 4 jrs Recent additions Samsung Lns-4095D LCD, Samsung hd-960 DVD, Monster HT-5000 Power center
    ,HPSA-1000 18" sealed DiY home sub.:D
    Black Laquer 1.2tl's w/ upgraded x-overs and Tweets BI-Amped with 2 Carver tfm-35's Knukonceptz 10ga cables

  5. #35

    Member Sales Rating: (1)

    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Posts
    288

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Deadof_knight View Post
    There is differences and anybody can tell sometime only very sublte but other times its drastic.

    I am not trying to dispute if there is a difference, just curious as to why there would be a difference.

    Hell I can't even hear the beeper tell me when the laundry is done unless I am within 10 feet of it, yet my girlfriend can hear it at the other end of the house.


    Steveinaz, what do you meen by "topology"?

  6. #36

    Member Sales Rating: (31)

    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Long Island
    Posts
    14,733

    Default

    If you want to try a cable that has a different sound to it.

    http://www.goertzaudio.com/mi.html

    They have a low impedance, to match your speaker's impedance. Make sure you have a high current amp though, a receiver or tube amp may not fair well with this cable.

    I run the AG2's in my 2 channel setup. IMO, they have great highs and lows, but aren't to be paired with a bright sounding speaker. For a warmer sound, try the copper HT Flatwire or MI cables.
    "He who fights with monsters should look to it that he himself does not become a monster. And when you gaze long into an abyss the abyss also gazes into you." Friedrich Nietzsche

  7. #37

    Member Sales Rating: (13)

    Join Date
    Jul 2003
    Location
    The Beautiful Central Oregon Coast
    Posts
    4,038

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by shack View Post
    Dragon,

    It's all in your head...you have fooled yourself AGAIN into believing all of the audio cable VOODOO! You are a sheeple who has bought into the hype. SHAME ON YOU!

    I am of course willing to help you fight through this serious affliction. I can get you back on the path of sanity and reason.

    First...you must send me those Midnights. You have my address. I will see that they are disposed of. After that we can get you back on the road to recovery. I’m here for you.
    What a guy! :)


    Quote Originally Posted by steveinaz View Post
    The cables' topology is probably as important as the materials used--this is often over-looked.
    This is so true.

    Quote Originally Posted by janmike View Post
    Synergy.
    Also very true.

    FWIW, this was not a move to a more expensive wire, or even something new, so there's no psychology involved. I think I paid about $1 a foot for the Canare and I got the Audioquest used and unterminated (and cheap) from a fellow Polkie. Both have been sitting around the house for a couple of years and have been in and out of the system. There are some obvious differences. The Audioquest is a larger gauge and has a ton more dielectric material. I'm sure this has something to do with it. In other words, I am not just comparing two hunks of copper.
    The Canare always seemed a little 'tizzy'. The Audioquest has clarity. The Canare seemed to separate instruments better but they sounded dis-jointed I guess. The Audioquest doesn't throw out as large of a soundstage but everything sounds more coherent, together, musical, toe-tapping...not dis-jointed and tizzy. The Canare didn't sound nearly as bad on some recordings. I can't really explain what's going on. My wire lengths are only around 7 ft, I'm using relatively high-efficiency 8 ohm speakers and a good 50wpc tube amp that's good down below 4 ohms. At that wire length, supposedly there shouldn't be a difference, but there obviously is.
    When I said people who demand that there is no difference are uninformed it wasn't meant as an insult anymore than them telling me it's in my head. I fail to see the difference. That's my story and I'm sticking to it.
    Last edited by dragon1952; 03-13-2008 at 02:25 PM.

  8. #38

    Member Sales Rating: (4)

    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Location
    LSU, Louisiana "In a galaxy far far away"
    Posts
    4,100

    Default

    My reality is reality.
    Monitor 7b's front
    Monitor 4's surround
    Frankinpolk Center (2 mw6503's with peerless tweeter)
    M10's back surround
    Hafler-200 driving patio Daytons
    Tempest-X 15" DIY sub w/ Rythmik 350A plate amp
    Dayton 12" DVC w/ Rythmik 350a plate amp
    Harman/Kardon AVR-635
    Oppo 981hd
    Denon upconvert DVD player
    Jennings Research (vintage and rare)
    Mit RPTV WS-55513
    Tosh HD-XA1
    B&K AV5000


    Dont BAN me Bro!!!!

  9. #39
    Stronzo
    Member Sales Rating: (7)

    Join Date
    Apr 2002
    Location
    Over Yonder
    Posts
    7,883

    Default da break down

    There are three critical elements to a cable; the conductor, the geometry of the conductor, and the connector. Since our system is little more than a glorified collective group of metals used to pass along an electrical signal, you bet that the composition of metals that interlink components will have an audible impact.

    To lightly touch on a few questions raised by Mule;

    Copper is copper is copper, right?
    Incorrect. One of the most common assumptions people tend to make is that every specific element that is mined shares exact similarities after modifications in a factory/lab. This simply is not the case. There are different purities of copper. These grades are typically based upon the volume of crystal within each copper strand/block. You have industrial copper, OFC copper, PCOCC copper, directional PCOCC copper, stranded, solid core, threaded and so on.

    The electrons are supposed to pass on the surface of the wire as opposed to the core so I understand that the same gauge of wire with more strands theoretically should have less resistence, but can this make a difference and how does this make a difference in the end result of speaker sound?
    Electrons ‘bounce’ around the metal and thusly pick up and transmit anything they encounter. The audio signal travels slow enough to hit well into the ‘core’ of the conductor. What you may be thinking of is the video signal, which transmits faster (typically in the megahertz range), subsequently causing it to travel more along the surface of the conductor.

    Using a thicker gauge conductor gives you advantages in terms of conductance and resistance. Running even el cheapola 12 gauge wire from lows should create an immediate improvement over 22 gauge lamp cord. The differences will likely be an improved sense of scale and low end authority. This is due to the above advantages. The downside however is that using thicker gauge wire creates greater inductance and can even create an impedance mismatch between your amplifiers and speakers (in severe cases). In many instances, you will notice these effects will cause a slight loss in your systems high end extension and bass resolution.

    Gold is a better conductor, but at some point you will have to go from copper to gold, How does it make a difference going from gold to copper at a banana or at the post, sooner or later there is going to be a connection between gold and copper.
    Gold is a fantastic conductor, but it too is not without issues. First and foremost, it is extremely expensive to produce, so much so, that you rarely see it being used in speaker cable applications. When you see high purity gold in audio, it’s almost always used in interconnects and solder. Because costs limit it to thin gauge, and because the metal is so soft, when used with the wrong connectors- it can lose a sense of refinement at frequency extremes. It’s also worthy to note that there are a number of RCA’s that do not use copper. Your right however, eventually the signal will run back into a copper conductor. The general idea is to maintain the integrity of the signal during the critical stage of linking components. High purity metals are the go to choice because not only can they pass that information more reliably, but in many cases, they just sound better.

    Hell, we haven’t even begun scratching the surface of hybrid designs using multiple conductors, the multitude of rca designs, general geometries, shielding, the works. There’s a lot to it, and just like anything else, you can’t buy a ritzy cable and expect it to transform your system. To make the right choice, you really should be intimately familiar with the topology of your system, and what cable design would best suit it. However, that can be a lot of work. For those that are wanting to keep it simple; I’d encourage anyone with a credit card to scrounge around for companies that offer generous 30 day money back trial periods – bring in a few cords that use various materials and vastly different topologies and have some fun! The only time I would ever discourage anyone from conducting these tests is if the bulk of your system can be purchased at Circuit City or Best Buy. I encourage anyone to graduate beyond cheap components before entering cable territory and passing judgment.

    I hope this helps! Good luck, and have fun!
    Last edited by Zero; 03-13-2008 at 03:29 PM.

  10. #40

    Member Sales Rating: (13)

    Join Date
    Mar 2004
    Location
    Bedford, TX
    Posts
    4,502

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Zero View Post
    I hope this helps! Good luck, and have fun!
    You are pretty much saying that the diameter of the cable is what matters. Purity of the copper has very little to contribute to the overall resistance of the cable so I wouldn't pay too much attention to it.

  11. #41
    Stronzo
    Member Sales Rating: (7)

    Join Date
    Apr 2002
    Location
    Over Yonder
    Posts
    7,883

    Default

    Sami,

    Honestly, I don't understand how you got "purity of copper has little to contribute" out of the above post. I said the exact opposite. And yes - diameter certainly plays its role as well.

  12. #42

    Member Sales Rating: (4)

    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Location
    LSU, Louisiana "In a galaxy far far away"
    Posts
    4,100

    Default

    To go solid or not.

    I have heard and read many different reviews on both sides of the fence about solids. I have taken the advise, of some peers here, and went solid copper core RG59 coaxial. But I notice that in terms of "speaker" wire, stranded is best.

    Confusing..... IC's work better with solid core copper, but speaker wire works best with stranded copper? Of corse if going stranded, it should be the same solid copper as a solid core?
    Monitor 7b's front
    Monitor 4's surround
    Frankinpolk Center (2 mw6503's with peerless tweeter)
    M10's back surround
    Hafler-200 driving patio Daytons
    Tempest-X 15" DIY sub w/ Rythmik 350A plate amp
    Dayton 12" DVC w/ Rythmik 350a plate amp
    Harman/Kardon AVR-635
    Oppo 981hd
    Denon upconvert DVD player
    Jennings Research (vintage and rare)
    Mit RPTV WS-55513
    Tosh HD-XA1
    B&K AV5000


    Dont BAN me Bro!!!!

  13. #43

    Member Sales Rating: (13)

    Join Date
    Mar 2004
    Location
    Bedford, TX
    Posts
    4,502

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Zero View Post
    Sami,

    Honestly, I don't understand how you got "purity of copper has little to contribute" out of the above post. I said the exact opposite. And yes - diameter certainly plays its role as well.
    Not from your post but as the defining characteristic is resistance on cable, purity doesn't contribute as it affects the resistance very little. Unless we are talking about something that really isn't copper anymore (which isn't really relevant as the stuff you buy isn't that dirty). If purity is something you are concerned of, just buy larger diameter cable and the problem is solved.

  14. #44

    Member Sales Rating: (1)

    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Posts
    288

    Default

    Thanks zero, for the relatively simple explanation. Like sami I thought a larger "dirty" conductor would do the same job as a smaller "clean" conductor. After reading the definition of "inductance" It seems in simple terms that the electrons in a clean condutor have a more direct path and be better responsive to current changes.

    AAAhhhh, something just occured to me, this would be why bi amping speakers and setting crossover frequencies at the amp would produce better sound. The wire would have less frequency change and thus less inductance ??!!

  15. #45

    Member Sales Rating: (13)

    Join Date
    Mar 2004
    Location
    Bedford, TX
    Posts
    4,502

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by mule View Post
    Thanks zero, for the relatively simple explanation. Like sami I thought a larger "dirty" conductor would do the same job as a smaller "clean" conductor. After reading the definition of "inductance" It seems in simple terms that the electrons in a clean condutor have a more direct path and be better responsive to current changes.
    Inductance only affect the sound with long speaker cables, and only in higher frequencies. Even then its not audible as the human ear can't detect the difference.

  16. #46

    Member Sales Rating: (31)

    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Long Island
    Posts
    14,733

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Sami View Post
    Inductance only affect the sound with long speaker cables, and only in higher frequencies. Even then its not audible as the human ear can't detect the difference.
    This is correct.
    "He who fights with monsters should look to it that he himself does not become a monster. And when you gaze long into an abyss the abyss also gazes into you." Friedrich Nietzsche

  17. #47

    Member Sales Rating: (4)

    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Location
    LSU, Louisiana "In a galaxy far far away"
    Posts
    4,100

    Default

    The beautiful laws of physics..
    Monitor 7b's front
    Monitor 4's surround
    Frankinpolk Center (2 mw6503's with peerless tweeter)
    M10's back surround
    Hafler-200 driving patio Daytons
    Tempest-X 15" DIY sub w/ Rythmik 350A plate amp
    Dayton 12" DVC w/ Rythmik 350a plate amp
    Harman/Kardon AVR-635
    Oppo 981hd
    Denon upconvert DVD player
    Jennings Research (vintage and rare)
    Mit RPTV WS-55513
    Tosh HD-XA1
    B&K AV5000


    Dont BAN me Bro!!!!

  18. #48
    Stronzo
    Member Sales Rating: (7)

    Join Date
    Apr 2002
    Location
    Over Yonder
    Posts
    7,883

    Default

    It's the old adage of "You can't make a silk purse out of a sows ear". Throwing in 'more' conductor will not magically match a genuinely better metal. In most situations, the purist conductor will nearly always yield better results.

    The take on inductance sounds like something straight out of a dated EE book. Everything about the conductor and its shielding will have a dramatic impact on the cables inductance. You say its not audible. I disagree. I'd also say its a safe bet that neither one of us will walk away with our minds changed on the subject. Chalk this one up to the "lets agree to disagree" files, or as Stephen Colbert would say; "I respect your right to be wrong". :p:D
    Last edited by Zero; 03-13-2008 at 05:40 PM.

  19. #49

    Member Sales Rating: (13)

    Join Date
    Mar 2004
    Location
    Bedford, TX
    Posts
    4,502

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Zero View Post
    You're not going to magically improve the purity of a metal simply by increasing the diameter of a lesser conductor.
    You don't have to improve the purity. Impurity effects the resistance on the cable, only by a marginal amount, and by increasing the diameter you lessen the resistance. Simple.

    Quote Originally Posted by Zero View Post
    You say its not audible. I disagree.
    Well, how much of a difference is there going to be in two decent audio cables at 10kHz or 16kHz? How well can you hear that difference? Put in some test tones at those frequencies and test how much of volume you have to increase to distinguish the difference. Be careful not to damage the speaker though...and of course make it a double blind test.

    Repeat with a cable that you know doesn't sound as good and record the results.

    :p

    Quote Originally Posted by Zero View Post
    "I respect your right to be wrong". :p:D
    Yes, I respect the fact that you're wrong. ;) (sorry, couldn't resist, these aren't fighting words at all, I'm just killing time waiting for A-GPS test to execute)

  20. #50

    Member Sales Rating: (1)

    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Posts
    288

    Default

    I would say that I could probably not hear the difference, especialy since most music I listen to is mp3 or wma and half of that was probably made in a basement with a computer and samples of old vinyl.

    Its just that if someone says somethings better I like to know why its better. I can now understand why its better even if I can't hear that it is better.

  21. #51

    Member Sales Rating: (26)

    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Location
    The tube lair in Charlotte, NC
    Posts
    11,298

    Default

    The higher the resolution of one's format recording, synergy and gear, the more apt one is to hear a change in the sound.
    In search of accurate reproduction of music. Real sound is my reference and while perfection may not be attainable? If I chase it, I might just catch excellence.

    "The best way to enjoy digital music reproduction is to never listen to good analogue reproduction". - Kenneth Swauger

  22. #52

    Member Sales Rating: (0)

    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Sweet Spot
    Posts
    771

    Default

    Everything makes a difference.

  23. #53

    Member Sales Rating: (0)

    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Location
    Las Vegas, Nevada
    Posts
    908

    Smile I stand corrected

    Quote Originally Posted by dragon1952 View Post
    I've proven to myself yet again. I had some Audioquest Midnight speaker cable in my system for a couple years. This wire is so stiff and hard to work with it's basically not worth hassling with. When I moved into the new house I decided I wasn't going to screw with it anymore so I used some Canare Star Quad I had laying around. Well I haven't been real happy with the system lately. I gave it a good 2 months and I finally decided to try the Midnight again. It took me a freakin' hour to change the bananas. It's like wrestling an anaconda for crying out loud. I stabbed myself with the screwdriver several times, lost a lot of blood and muttered lots of nasty things under my breath, but wow what a change. Anybody that says speaker cable can't make a difference is seriously uninformed. I don't know...maybe it's just the blood loss affecting me.
    I was of the opinion that, for the most part, speaker cable and interconnects are way way over-rated. That goes for other cables and power conditioners as well.

    That said, dragon's first hand experience is the first testomony to speaker cable I've read and agree with. Now dragon didn't state that the speaker cable sounded better, just that the old cable was a total pain in the ass to handle. Can't argue that!
    Do you hear that buzzing noise?

  24. #54

    Member Sales Rating: (43)

    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Location
    CT
    Posts
    15,931

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by jakelm View Post
    To go solid or not.

    I have heard and read many different reviews on both sides of the fence about solids. I have taken the advise, of some peers here, and went solid copper core RG59 coaxial. But I notice that in terms of "speaker" wire, stranded is best.

    Confusing..... IC's work better with solid core copper, but speaker wire works best with stranded copper? Of corse if going stranded, it should be the same solid copper as a solid core?
    Hey Jake
    I like solid on speaker wires too. I have AQ star Quads with 4 solid conductors. They work great. I use them on the lows of my speakers, and I use my silvers on the highs. I have both the DBS, and none DBS versions of the AQ star quads. The DBS is definitely better. Not worth over twice the price, but better. And yes I laughed at the though of having batteries on my cables. Then I tried them.
    Please. Please contact me a ben62670 @ yahoo.com. Make sure to include who you are, and you are from Polk so I don't delete your email. Also I am now physically unable to work on any projects. If you need help let these guys know. There are many people who will help if you let them know where you are.
    Thanks
    Ben

  25. #55

    Member Sales Rating: (13)

    Join Date
    Jul 2003
    Location
    The Beautiful Central Oregon Coast
    Posts
    4,038

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Monster Jam View Post
    ..... Now dragon didn't state that the speaker cable sounded better, just that the old cable was a total pain in the ass to handle. Can't argue that!
    I actually did state that the Audioquest Midnight was much better sounding in my system, even though it's a royal pain in the ass to work with. In other words, the old cable that was a total pain in the ass is now the new cable :D
    Last edited by dragon1952; 03-15-2008 at 08:03 PM.

  26. #56

    Member Sales Rating: (1)

    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    Over the mountain watching the watcher
    Posts
    6,266

    Default

    One word:

    Waveguide.




    MrBigBlueLight
    Usually right, but sometimes not entirely factually correct.
    Shifting to Plan B

  27. #57

    Member Sales Rating: (0)

    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Location
    Las Vegas, Nevada
    Posts
    908

    Default I stand corrected....

    Quote Originally Posted by dragon1952 View Post
    I actually did state that the Audioquest Midnight was much better sounding in my system, even though it's a royal pain in the ass to work with. In other words, the old cable that was a total pain in the ass is now the new cable :D

    ....yet again!!!!:p
    Do you hear that buzzing noise?

  28. #58

    Member Sales Rating: (13)

    Join Date
    Jul 2003
    Location
    The Beautiful Central Oregon Coast
    Posts
    4,038

    Default

    At least someone's paying attention
    :D

  29. #59
    Banned
    Member Sales Rating: (14)

    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Location
    houston
    Posts
    2,395

    Default

    I'm happy with romex which doesn't move once you get it bent (sculpted) just right. I don't have the urge to try anything else unless someone is donating something or starting up a new cable swap thread.

  30. #60

    Member Sales Rating: (25)

    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    West Chester, PA
    Posts
    4,301

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Zero View Post
    ...The only time I would ever discourage anyone from conducting these tests is if the bulk of your system can be purchased at Circuit City or Best Buy. I encourage anyone to graduate beyond cheap components before entering cable territory and passing judgment.
    ...
    Sounds like solid advice. I'll heed it. (no pun intended)
    Last edited by mmadden28; 03-15-2008 at 11:42 PM. Reason: clarification

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

     

Similar Threads

  1. Would adding this amp make a difference ?
    By NotaSuv in forum Basic Hookup/Wiring Questions
    Replies: 3
    Last Post: 03-03-2008, 08:30 AM
  2. 20 amp breaker...does it make a difference?
    By pearsall001 in forum Electronics
    Replies: 25
    Last Post: 01-13-2008, 10:04 AM
  3. Amps really do make a difference?
    By KrazyMofo24 in forum Speakers
    Replies: 7
    Last Post: 07-16-2006, 08:39 PM
  4. SVS 25 or 20 or will it make a difference
    By fgr41 in forum Speakers
    Replies: 9
    Last Post: 12-07-2003, 03:43 PM
  5. Replies: 4
    Last Post: 09-23-2003, 06:59 PM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts