Tax rebate: 6/7.1 or Amp?

[dylanblada]

So firstly, long time lurker, first time poster. Secondly, I got my tax rebate and have a bit of change for a possible upgrade. See my current system in my sig. 50% movies, 30% games, 20% music. Room is about 20x20x8, carpeted.

I'd like to get some input on what I might notice more: a CSi3 in back for 6.1, a pair of RTi6's (or maybe more FXi5's?) for 7.1, or a Carver m1.0t (or maybe 1.5t?) for the RTi12's. I know that people say the 12's only really shine when they are driven well. I've never heard the 12's with a good amp, so I'm intrigued by that, especially since they sound pretty good to me through the Onkyo already. Or would I notice more difference with more speakers?

Or should I say screw it, sell the sub (for maybe about $300) and build a decent sonosub for ~$600? options.....

[Airplay355]

Why don't you grab something like this? http://cls.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/cls....ult&1215361013

I only looked for 30 seconds and found that. A 5 channel amp would make all of your speakers sound infinitely better then running them off the receiver alone and you could probably find a set of speaks to use for 7.1 with the left over $200. Power those with the receiver and buy an amp later on down the road maybe.

There's a pair of Rti8's for sale in the flea market for $225 so I'd imagine another pair of FXi's or Rti6/4's for surround duty would be less then $200.

[phuz]

I was going to say the same thing. Get a multi-channel amp, that way when this question comes up again you already know the answer. :)

[dylanblada]

Thank you Airplay355.
I've been eyeing those (and other) speakers in the flea market. That's actually what got me thinking about this. I've never really thought about a 5 ch amp. Would it really be better for all the speakers? I like to know more, like what do I look for in a good mulit ch amp? I'm only a little concerned about not having the power to properly drive the fronts. I don't know if that's justified or not, but it seems that I should have at least 200 w/ch for the fronts. Again, would it be a good idea to have the Rotel drive the highs/mids and the Onkyo drive the woofers (or vice-versa)? I could do the Rotel, but I don't really want to spend much more than $350 or so. I'd only spend $600+ if I sold the sub and used the profits toward something else with a little lower range maybe even like an SVS or something.

[jayman_1975]

200wpc is not written in stone. I added a Rotel RB 1070 (130wpc) to my old Denon 3805 and it was like my speakers came out of a coma. Just don't tell CFRIZZ i told you that i'll be in big trouble.

[dylanblada]

What do you mean by 200 w/ch is not written in stone? Did you biamp? I know many good HT amps are underrated. My speakers are rated at up to 500w for the fronts, 200w for the cen., and 135w (I think) for the surrounds. I know I don't need 500w and I'm sure that a good amp (Carver, Rotel, Adcom ect.) will produce more power than my receiver, given equal ratings. But will 100 watts be enough to open up the RTi12's (50w-500w)? From what I've seen I think it will take more than that, unless my logic is flawed somewhere.. :)

PS what's CFRIZZ's problem?

[dorokusai]

The speaker is already at 90db efficiency, so yes, 100wpc would open them up just fine. Most folks find improvements using outboard amplification and I tend to agree in most cases. It might be addicting, so be careful :)

[dylanblada]

one other slightly related question. I got my current set up from a friend as a package for a killer deal ($1400 for 5.1, sub, receiver, cables) I never really teated out any other options for rears besides the FXis. I know they are purpose built for HT, but out of curiousity, would I be happier with another set of RTi's? I've seen great deals come and go on the flea market and I'd be willing to get RTi4s ,6's ore envn 8's. I'm just not sure how much I would really notice them vs the FXi's, which I'm pretty happy with now. I just don't know if i'm happy becasue they are the best or because I don't know any better.

[dylanblada]

Thanks dorokusai
I am still mostly a n00b at these power ratings, so thanks for bearing with me guys.
The only thing that sticks in my mind still is that my receiver is rated 105w. How much diff would there be between the 105w of Onkyo vs. for instance 100w of Rotel? How about vs. 350w of Carver? The only thing I'm gaining with more watts is db right?

[dorokusai]

Just stick with the FXi....you're beginning to think too much.

[dylanblada]

Haha. Thats what I thought and needed to hear.

[ben62670]

Thanks dorokusai
I am still mostly a n00b at these power ratings, so thanks for bearing with me guys.
The only thing that sticks in my mind still is that my receiver is rated 105w. How much diff would there be between the 105w of Onkyo vs. for instance 100w of Rotel? How about vs. 350w of Carver? The only thing I'm gaining with more watts is db right?

Receiver power vs amp power is apples, and oranges. It is all about currant. Doro has a nice multichannel amp in the fleamarket that will drive nearly anything out there.
http://www.polkaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?t=67228
His 9/10 means it is mint, and is a well trusted seller here.

[dylanblada]

great, thanks ben.
Apples, oranges, got it. What do I look for in a amplifier with good currant (thats amps right?)?
Also, that Adcom looks sexy, only problem is its more than twice what I was aiming at spending. Any other good recommendations?

[dorokusai]

I appreciate the plug Ben. That being said, take that as a guide and keep your eyes peeled for something along those lines. www.audiogon.com has a plethora of gear to choose from, with varying price ranges to fit every budget.

[dylanblada]

Yeah, I've been looking around on here, Audiogon, eBay, AVS and others. I just never thought to look at 5ch amps because of the difference in the power requirements for the speakers. I was worried that the rears would be fine but the fronts would be underpowered. Thanks again guys.

[ben62670]

I personally like Adcom's, and Parasound's for powerful amps in a reasonable price range. An amp can serve you for many years. Don't get too hung up on watt ratings, and don't skimp on your amp.

[cfrizz]

Welcome to Club Polk Dylan!:)

I don't have a problem, unless you call disagreeing with the majority on here about getting LOTS of power in amplification. I personally think you have the right idea about your speakers & the power requirement. All speakers benefit from more power & you don't have to worry about over taxing your receiver.

I always recommend getting at least 200wpc in amplification. This is enough power to drive ANY speaker around regardless of its impedence. I believe in doing it once, & doing it right the first time around.

If you have a HT setup, by all means get a multichannel amp & be done with that particular upgrade.

I don't believe in the term overkill! I don't care if I only use a fraction of the power, I like knowing that when needed, I have all the power that I can possibly use & don't have to worry about it.

So it all comes down to your perspective. If you like buying the same type of gear over & over & over again, wasting all kinds of money, then yes, go get a 100wpc 5 channel Rotel. Then if you upgrade to a speaker like the LSI, you can get the RMB1075 etc. Or you can do it just once & get the RMB1095 & be done with!

So my recommendation is to go on Audiogon, & look at the Rotels, Sunfires, Adcoms, Parasounds, Outlaws etc for a 200wpc 5 channel amp. Or you can get a new Emotiva XPA amp for like 700.00.

Again, welcome!:)

What do you mean by 200 w/ch is not written in stone? Did you biamp? I know many good HT amps are underrated. My speakers are rated at up to 500w for the fronts, 200w for the cen., and 135w (I think) for the surrounds. I know I don't need 500w and I'm sure that a good amp (Carver, Rotel, Adcom ect.) will produce more power than my receiver, given equal ratings. But will 100 watts be enough to open up the RTi12's (50w-500w)? From what I've seen I think it will take more than that, unless my logic is flawed somewhere.. :)

PS what's CFRIZZ's problem?

[jdhdiggs]

For an alternate view: I would MUCH rather have an excellent 100W amp than a proamp rated 600W for the same money. Most of your listening will be using less than 1W/channel with peaks going up to maybe 30W. If you don't have quality in that first watt, the rest are crap.

For most typical people, 50W is more than enough. The difference between a 50W and 200W amp is only a whopping 6dB! That's not that much in the real world unless you HAVE to feel the music or like bleeding ears....

[dylanblada]

good point jdhdiggs.
I'm looking at that rotel amp posted before. I guess I can always add more power and biamp the RTi12's if I need.

[cfrizz]

There's the answer....likes to buy the same gear over & over again. Typical guy. Have fun. I hope you're not married, your wife won't like it too much when you go to buy a 2nd and third amp!;):D Have fun.

good point jdhdiggs.
I'm looking at that rotel amp posted before. I guess I can always add more power and biamp the RTi12's if I need.

[jayman_1975]

What i meant by "200wpc is not written in stone" was ....don't overlook some of the amps recommended on this site cause they're not 200wpc. Alot of people are iching to get into seperates but cannot afford a 5 channel 200wpc amp. They can get pretty pricey.

First off i would decide what you need in the amp. Physical characteristics: (maybe you only have room for a certain size) Do you need a cool running amp. Do you want a certain look to match. Then look at sound characteristics: You have RTI's so you'll probably want a little warmer sounding amp. Next look at # of channels: 5, 7, 3, 2. You seem to be mostly concerned with making your 12's do their best so maybe you want to invest all of the money into a 2 channel amp, chances are you will get a better 2 channel amp for say..$500 then you would get a 5 channel amp for the same money.

As for buying something and then re-selling and buying something else....heck..that's the nature of this hobby. If you buy used...you will most likely recover your money on a resale. I have bought and sold a few different AVR's as well as power amps and don't regret it at all. I have learned alot from trying different gear and then moving on to something else. As for the WAF...yeah..mine get's a little annoyed when i mention that i'm selling an item that only months ago i just couldn't live without...but as long as your not losing a but-load of money...what's the biggy?

[Gadabout]

Or you can get a new Emotiva XPA amp for like 700.00.

Your running a similiar setup to mine as far as the Onkyo and speakers.
I thought the speakers sounded OK from the Onkyo but once I purchased the Emotiva LPA-1 (something you might also consider), it really opened up the sound and made the HT more enjoyable.

You can't go wrong with the amp suggestions here. I also agree that you will probably prefer a multi-channel amp. I'd just throw out you also might consider the Emotiva XPA or LPA amps. They are hard to beat for the price and come with a 5 yr warranty.

Welcome to Club Polk,
Scott

[Hawkeye]

Before you help stimulate the economy, ask yourself one question.

What don't I like about my present system?

I think if you answer that honestly, you can decide whether it speaks, components or room treatments which will give you the best bang for the buck.

Gordon

[dylanblada]

I missed you post before CFRIZZ.
I see why you face opposition around here... I'm all for getting good stuff once and having it last. I wouldn't mind if I could find something like the 1095 for about $100 or so more than what I want to spend (not much more than $400). I'd love to get the 1095, but its about 4x my price range. And I think that jayman is right about reselling. Especially becasue I'm already buying used and decent stuff doesn't really drop much in price (or at least as much as if I got it new). I'll only think about upgrading the speakers when I have plenty of cash to trow at them, becasue I think they are pretty good as is and couldn't justify spending any more on speakers unless they were substantially better.

As far as qualities I would look for in an amp:
1. Price
2. good quality and reputation

I guess it would be best in black, but i'm much more concerned with price/performance over asthetics.
The Emotiva LPA would be doable, but I'm getting closer to pulling the trigger on the RB-985 for $360 shipped. I think for now 5/ch would do me better becasue of the mostly HT use of my system.

Hawkeye, there isn't much I dont like about my system, I just know it could be better with not a huge investment. How much better? Well I'll let you know when I get something! Like said before, I can always sell it for at least what I paid, so I'm not too worried about losing $$$.

After doing some thinking, I'll probably get the Rotel RB-985 and, if need be later, I can get the Carver m400t for about $200 for 2x200w to the fronts.

Thank you all very much for your input.

[dorokusai]

The Rotel RB-985 is a very nice amplifier choice.

[dylanblada]

That's what I can tell from most opinions. I saw you had one also doro. If you don't mind me asking (you can PM me..) how much did you sell yours for? I wann amke sure that I'm getting a good deal. The only thing wrong with it is that one of the speaker posts was professionally replaced.

Just bidding my time. Waiting for someone to give me a reason not to.......;)

[jayman_1975]

make sure you have enough in your budget for IC's...you'll need 5 if you buy that amp.

[dylanblada]

From what I know, you can't do better for the price:
http://www.monoprice.com/products/pr...seq=1&format=2

[dylanblada]

I suppose I might want to start posting in the Electronics fourms, but I'm sure those who know the most look at both anyway.
Any preference between these two?
Rotel RB-985
Adcom GFA-7400 (for about $$30 less)

[anonymouse]

I have owned two Rotel's - the RB980 and the RB991. The 980 is a 100WPC 2 channel @ 8 ohms and I was driving RTi10's with it. The RB991 is a 200WPC @8 and I have driven both RTi10's and LSi9's with it. My conclusion with both amps is that the RTi10's got really detailed with them, and while they were certainly better than powering them off the receiver, I much preferred the sound with a NAD2200PE. The LSi9's on the other hand really mated well with the RB991 (and is what I still use).

So my experience is that Rotel's signature sound is a little bright. With the RTi series being bright itself, this made for a poor choice for me. My LSi's love the 991, and I have tried various other amps and still come back to the 991's.

I know that does not help you a lot because you are looking at a different Rotel here, but I thought there was some relevance. I would not be surprised if the RB985 and the RB980 basically use the same circuitry with 3 extra channels added.

I think you would be better off powering your mains with a solid 200WPC 2 channel and leaving the extra headroom for your receiver to power the rest as a starter. Everybody will have their own opinion on this though.